Author Topic: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!  (Read 12296 times)

Offline Frog

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2012, 03:30:45 PM »


My label, when used,  is the size of a small postage stamp and is applied to the back of the shirt's tag. It is, however, labor intensive. Pierre's rubber stamp and data base seems much quicker.


Hey Frog could you post a pic of your label?

Maybe still not completely compliant, but when I started doing this, compliance was virtually zero on some boards, and woefully low even here. I figured that my attempt to comply would count for something
The tracking number can be cross referenced to the specific ink or transfer information, and exact date, while the number itself reflects that this is the 63rd youth job, and it was done in October, 2011
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Offline blue moon

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2012, 03:41:50 PM »
This is a mess. What are they going to do when something goes wrong and they need to recall the shirts. I know who I sold the batch of shirts to but they can't know who they sold all 1000 shirts to individually. So how can they call them and tell them that the shirt is bad and not to use it? If you hide the tag in a design, what if the people cant find it if they do for some act of God hear about the recall.

I am not selling shirts intended for Kids under 12. I don't think I would lose much work. I only print a hand full of kids stuff any ways.

Pierre I like your idea about the website and putting the website on the shirts with a tracking number. Now what number do you use. If I print a 6 color design and the inks are from all different patches then I would need 6 tracking numbers? You can't put that much info on every shirt.

the website is 103recall.com. The latest version of the software is not up yet though.
You will be able to enter the garment description (with the manufacturer name and the lot number) and all the info for the ink (different batch numbers and other info). This will generate a tracking number (and in the near future also the certificate of conformity).
You will stamp that in the shirt and be compliant. As Frog pointed out, you will need the means for ppl to contact you and check the status. Phone number works, the web address might.
THe web site we are working on will also provide you with a list of customers that purchased the recalled shirts. So if the manufacturer calls you and says that this particular batch has been recalled, you will be able to type the number in and get a list of every order that used that ink. My guess is it is not your responsibility to actually notify all the ppl that are wearing the actual shirts, but rather just the actual customer who bought them.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Ripcord

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2012, 03:42:36 PM »
It's not that big of a deal...I use a code like this: NSW- 80002 - 303-555-7777 - 12/2011 - #123

This identifies myself (initials), location (zip code), phone number (contact info), manufacture date (month and year), and lot number. Any customer who wants to know what ink I used can call me with the lot number and I can give him the batch number(s) of the ink(s) used for the job, because I keep a log.

I print this code as a single line of 12 point type on the inside of the shirts near the bottom hem. No flash, just a quick stroke, and into the dryer. I could easily do 200 an hour if I had a larger dryer.

It's an extra step, and I try to get a little extra money for youth shirts to cover it...I don't necessarily agree with the regulation, but I don't disagree with government regulations in general. Can you imagine if food and medicine could be manufactured without any standards? Or if restaurants weren't required to handle food properly? Yuck. 

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Offline blue moon

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2012, 03:48:53 PM »
we actually ordered a stamp that can have the text changed. We stamp the shirts at the same location as you and can do 4-500 per hour without having to send them through the dryer and burning a screen. It is very, very easy to do.
What seems to take the most time is getting the lot numbers from the shirts. Some companies like Jersees have individual numbers for each shirt and it takes a long time to make a list of all the shirts used (we just drop the last digit or two to reduce the number of entries to one for 100 or 10 shirts depending on how big is the order).

Currently we charge $0.10 per shirt to process the info and stamp them. It is not enough though and I have notified our customers that the price will go to $0.20-$0.25 this year. We also charge $5 to have the tracking number set up.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Homer

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2012, 03:52:39 PM »
 who is going to go around checking to see if you are following these "rules"? How do you decide what size shirt is intended for a 12 year old /3 year old? We have a few ideas on tacking and logging our info. It should be done anyway for our own good - but- atleast you get some advertising out of the deal.

P - what ink are you using in your stamper? We tried a few different ones and they are all illegible after washing. We switched to a direct print.
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Offline CastleKing

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2012, 03:53:00 PM »
The way I am interpreting CPSIA is that if you run multiple lots of ink, then each lot needs to have certification documents.

So, lets say you have a 10,000 piece run, you can have it certified  one of two ways. The first is tested as a "whole" shirt. You send your finished garment to be tested for lead content. The problem here is that we all know that we may not run the entire production order with the same ink lot numbers; consequently, there should be multiple samples tested throughout the print run

The other way to certify is to have "batch" certification on the inks, which means you send wet samples of all of your colors and bases to be tested.  Not only is this extremely expensive to do, but still poses the same problem once you open a new drum of ink.

Sounds like the regulators haven't done their homework to fully understand the printing process.

We are going to print tagless labels along with our internal PO# to track and identify the print date but I'm not sure how we will manage testing "whole" or "Batch"
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Offline Prosperi-Tees

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2012, 03:54:17 PM »


My label, when used,  is the size of a small postage stamp and is applied to the back of the shirt's tag. It is, however, labor intensive. Pierre's rubber stamp and data base seems much quicker.


Hey Frog could you post a pic of your label?

Do you just use an avery label or something of that sort? Wouldn't these come off after the first wash?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 04:02:55 PM by Prosperi-Tees »

Offline blue moon

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2012, 03:58:46 PM »
who is going to go around checking to see if you are following these "rules"? How do you decide what size shirt is intended for a 12 year old /3 year old? We have a few ideas on tacking and logging our info. It should be done anyway for our own good - but- atleast you get some advertising out of the deal.

P - what ink are you using in your stamper? We tried a few different ones and they are all illegible after washing. We switched to a direct print.

If it marketed to the 12 and under it has to comply. If it is an adult shirt that a kid is wearing, it does not have to comply. My understanding is that the marketing/intent is how you determine. . .

don't know where I got the ink, but it was specifically designed for fabric marking with a stamp. Look for a fabric stamping kit, it will come with ink. I have since purchased the ink and did a couple of washes without much degradation. That was black ink though, I should check the white just to make sure.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Frog

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2012, 04:02:21 PM »

Do you just use an avery label or something of that sort? Wouldn't these come off after the first wash?



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Offline blue moon

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2012, 04:04:03 PM »
The way I am interpreting CPSIA is that if you run multiple lots of ink, then each lot needs to have certification documents.

So, lets say you have a 10,000 piece run, you can have it certified  one of two ways. The first is tested as a "whole" shirt. You send your finished garment to be tested for lead content. The problem here is that we all know that we may not run the entire production order with the same ink lot numbers; consequently, there should be multiple samples tested throughout the print run

The other way to certify is to have "batch" certification on the inks, which means you send wet samples of all of your colors and bases to be tested.  Not only is this extremely expensive to do, but still poses the same problem once you open a new drum of ink.

Sounds like the regulators haven't done their homework to fully understand the printing process.

We are going to print tagless labels along with our internal PO# to track and identify the print date but I'm not sure how we will manage testing "whole" or "Batch"

there are three CPSIA regulations: 101, 102 and 103. they address the tracking, lead and phthalates. We are talking strictly about the tracking info here which does not have any exemptions and does not require a certificate.
Lead and Phthalate compliance require a certificate even if the testing is not required.

SO those are two separate issues that we have to comply with.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline blue moon

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2012, 04:09:25 PM »
The way I am interpreting CPSIA is that if you run multiple lots of ink, then each lot needs to have certification documents.

So, lets say you have a 10,000 piece run, you can have it certified  one of two ways. The first is tested as a "whole" shirt. You send your finished garment to be tested for lead content. The problem here is that we all know that we may not run the entire production order with the same ink lot numbers; consequently, there should be multiple samples tested throughout the print run

The other way to certify is to have "batch" certification on the inks, which means you send wet samples of all of your colors and bases to be tested.  Not only is this extremely expensive to do, but still poses the same problem once you open a new drum of ink.

Sounds like the regulators haven't done their homework to fully understand the printing process.

We are going to print tagless labels along with our internal PO# to track and identify the print date but I'm not sure how we will manage testing "whole" or "Batch"

as far as I can tell, the best way to resolve this issue would be to have the distributors test some batches and charge extra for the ink with the certificates. this way we could just order the ink we need for the upcoming jobs and even if we open another batch, all we'd have to do is add it to the list of the batches used in production. We would not need to create another certificate or a recall number.

Unfortunately, so far no distributors have stepped forward and offered that solution. I have heard from a couple of manufacturers that they are still trying to wrap their head around this and that they have no idea right now of how to proceed.

We'll just have to wait and see . . .

pierre

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline mk162

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2012, 09:33:54 AM »
it's a pain.  write your congressmen about this.  I have been staying on top of ours.

Not to move this in a direction that is political, but this is the type of regulation that stifles small business.  I can't afford to hire an employee to tag shirts and arrange the tracking system.  Large companies can, these types of laws only hurt the smaller companies, and remove competition for larger ones.

It's sad that I have to list ANOTHER government agency I fear an audit from.

As for tracking this BS, I am hoping the law is rewritten or appealed.  Most of the components they have problems with are not available in the US anymore.  So, if they aren't available, how am I going to use them?

House painters should have to test every batch of paint before they paint kids rooms then. 

Offline DKgrafix

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2012, 09:51:15 AM »
it's a pain.  write your congressmen about this.  I have been staying on top of ours.

I like this.

Offline Shawn (EIP)

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2012, 09:52:57 AM »
I nor my fellow local printers that I've spoken to pay any attention to this CPSIA crap and no one has been knocking on doors nor has any customers requested the info. Must be a CA thing?

If the CPSIA doesnt know their own rules how can they inforce them?

Offline blue moon

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Re: Responsibility when printing for the trade. Need answer immediately!
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2012, 10:07:27 AM »
I nor my fellow local printers that I've spoken to pay any attention to this CPSIA crap and no one has been knocking on doors nor has any customers requested the info. Must be a CA thing?

If the CPSIA doesnt know their own rules how can they inforce them?

it is NOT a CA thing! My guess is that they are taking it easy and giving ppl time to get onboard. From what I have seen, once they start, the first fine will be enough to set you back YEARS and repeat offenses might be enough to shut you down permanently (up to $10 mil in fines).

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!