Author Topic: E-Stop botton dumb idea  (Read 6896 times)

Offline 244

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2011, 08:35:21 PM »
Alan:  It’s certainly possible that a replacement capture fork could have been made locally in Houston, but doing it right is a fairly involved process.  This part as a number of wear surfaces that include where the cam follower runs, and also the sliding surfaces of the fork itself.  In order to ensure accurate location and long service life these wear surfaces need to be heat treated and then precision finished.  It would have seemed to me that dropping a replacement part into a FedEx international pack from Poland would have been the quickest way to get the part onsite.

Why it wasn't overnight shipped is amazing to me.  This is what a 100k machine?  I think there is some wiggle room.  Which judging by some of the quality of things so far about these machines there may be a lot of wiggle room so they should have stepped up. 

In any case I’m sure that Robert and his team know what they’re doing, and that they will get the press up and running in short time.  I really think that Brian (Binkspot) is one of the best assets that the manufacturer has on their side to get the press repaired, and as long as there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with the design, engineering, or manufacture of the press, he’ll get it right.  At least we’ve moved on from the nonsense that the capture fork was a deliberately designed sacrificial part, intended to break whenever the machines E-Stop was engaged.

Binkspot is a shinning star in the group of them for sure, I am certain he can replace what is wrong with the machine but as you said he can't change its design so if it's a problem before its likely to continue to be one.  I can almost hear the "don't hit the estop" conversations.  I agree on the nonsense such and such was spewing, I don't think a sole believed that BS though. 

One area where asdf and the customer both got lucky is that Scarborough Specialties has a shop full of M&R equipment that runs every day, so their production is not being totally impacted by the faults with the new machine.  I’d expect that the stress level would be much higher at a shop where the new press was their only source of production.

That's very true and I bet they look at those machines much differently now.  I mean after all it was clearly a habit of the operator to hit the Estop on the M&R's, they are still running.  But 1 hit on the new pos machine and it breaks.
I am sure they have it figured out by now. They mentioned the customer was going to order a replacement capture from us for the Sportsman so they should have an idea what it should look like by now! You know that reverse engineering thing!!!!!
Rich Hoffman


Offline Prosperi-Tees

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2011, 08:55:49 PM »
OK dumb question for the day. What is asdf?

Offline Gilligan

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2011, 09:02:37 PM »
Looks like a forum auto word swap for the company that is not to be mentioned by name.

Kind of silly but at the same time...  probably a good way to avoid "spam" from everyone's favorite spammer.

Offline Frog

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2011, 09:08:22 PM »
For anyone late to the party, this Statement of Policy from our early days may answer a question or two.

http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php?topic=247.0 



That rug really tied the room together, did it not?

Offline Prosperi-Tees

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2011, 09:11:25 PM »
Ok I still dont get it so I will just forget about it.

Offline Binkspot

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2011, 09:27:45 PM »
Yes the press is up and running. If you would like details there is a post on another forum, I don't want to drag the bs over here so I posted it there.

This topic has brought up a few questions and thoughts that I think all shop owners and operators should consider. Almost could be seen as a wake up call. Just curious how many owners have a plan in place to check the safety systems on their equipment and shop. Does any one check to see if the E-Stop or safety cables/bars even work on a scheduled maintenance plan, including all the equipment in the shop, not just the press. Who has their fire extinguishers checked and serviced yearly or inspected monthly? Do you have an eye wash station? Is everyone properly trained on the equipment, PPE, use of the MSDS etc. Do you have a flammable storage locker? Point being is most of the time safety is overlooked until there is an near miss or an accident, usually too late then. Just saying.

No Rich the fork was not reverse engineered, just installed on a 12 color which is running nice and smooth now.

Offline Northland

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2011, 08:21:49 AM »
This topic has brought up a few questions and thoughts that I think all shop owners and operators should consider. Almost could be seen as a wake up call. Just curious how many owners have a plan in place to check the safety systems on their equipment and shop. Does any one check to see if the E-Stop or safety cables/bars even work on a scheduled maintenance plan, including all the equipment in the shop, not just the press. Who has their fire extinguishers checked and serviced yearly or inspected monthly? Do you have an eye wash station? Is everyone properly trained on the equipment, PPE, use of the MSDS etc. Do you have a flammable storage locker? Point being is most of the time safety is overlooked until there is an near miss or an accident, usually too late then. Just saying.

Well said.... safety should never be an after thought.

Oh..... and I know my safety bars work.... 'cuz about 6 times a week I forget to reset one and have to go back and  close it.
But, with two people I could check them in less than a minutes time...  I should incorporate that into my daily start up procedure.
Thanks.

Offline GraphicDisorder

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2011, 10:09:36 AM »
Yes the press is up and running. If you would like details there is a post on another forum, I don't want to drag the bs over here so I posted it there.

Thanks for not creating drama out of a already dramatic situation thanks to your buddies.  Here is that post for others to see.

We were able to trace the fork failure down to a faulty relay on the machine. While running the contacts in the relay would “make and break” or “chatter” telling the servo to start and stop several, times a second. This sudden start-stop was hammering the fork until it would finally break.

In the process of trouble shooting we tried to replicate the cause and effect on another Prism II with no joy. Consulting with Printex we were quite cretin the failure was due to a faulty fork. I arrived back on site with a new fork from a different batch, checked the press to be sure everything was in place, installed the new fork and dry cycled the machine for about an hour when the same thing happened. The second fork had broken but this time I was right there and witnessed what had happened. Seeing the failure I was able to describe the events directly to Printex. With this information we traced the problem back to a relay in the control circuit. The following day I installed another new fork which a local machine shop had made, new relay and made the necessary adjustments. I dry cycled the machine for about four hours, changing index direction, speed and other functions. The press ran fine.

The following morning we started to run production and continued through out the day. When the production day was done I continued dry cycling the machine for another six hours while I completed some work on the other machines in the shop with no further issues.

I think you have proven your not really about the drama so there was no reason at least in my eyes that you shouldn't post this here, its good to see they have at least one person that seems to care and does so without slamming others. 
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Offline inkman996

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2011, 10:20:40 AM »
I also think it is great to post problems and causes on any press because it could relate to any other press as well, this way when some thing similar happens to someone elses press whether brand A or brand B they have a new trouble shooting idea to check out.
"No man is an island"

Offline 3Deep

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2011, 10:21:39 AM »
Brandt, really I think they all care or the subject would have never come up, just cause you  may have a issue with someone does not mean they don't care about there customer.  Look at this way if they don't care about there customer they won't have them long or anyone else on the matter.
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Offline alan802

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2011, 10:27:23 AM »
Brian has been fantastic for Printex.  There have been many instances where he could have lost his cool but he hasn't.  I wish the whole Printex crew would take a page from Brian's book and act more appropriately.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it -T.J.
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it -T.P.

Offline 3Deep

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2011, 10:39:27 AM »
Alan, Brain sounds like a guy that anyone would want on there team hands down and the other blue fellers should be glad to have him...mad as I am right now I still have a little faith in people not much.
Life is like Kool-Aid, gotta add sugar/hardwork to make it sweet!!

Offline GraphicDisorder

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Re: E-Stop botton dumb idea
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2011, 10:41:56 AM »
Brandt, really I think they all care or the subject would have never come up, just cause you  may have a issue with someone does not mean they don't care about there customer.  Look at this way if they don't care about there customer they won't have them long or anyone else on the matter.

IMO if they "all" cared the part would have been overnighted and the press fixed the next day.  I certainly do believe Brian cares though, he is the type that wants to do a good job no matter what.  In fact he is the most important asset they have.

Have you seen how they treated Inkman for telling the truth.  If that is caring then wow you are welcome to that my friend. 
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