Mlink in the building.

[Frog]

I think what makes this thread so great is usually when someone gets a DTG, they're not going to get another of a different brand, at least not right away. So rarely would you have the opportunity to do side-by-side comparisons.

So thanks again to Brandt for taking the time to do this.

And of course Rich Hoffman, who is actually providing the machine to make the comparison possible.

[bulldog]

Rich is awesome too.

[pwalsh]

Where do third party inks fit into the equation?

Great Question Andy.  So far there haven't been a lot of 3rd Party or OEM Replacement Inks on the market for DTG printers, but as the market expands and the price that a decorator can get for a printed shirt is reduced we should expect to see more aftermarket ink manufacturers and suppliers enter the market. 

If the DTG Market follows the Graphics wide-format inkjet market we can expect to see aftermarket ink solutions from "No-Name" suppliers that are 30% to 50% the price of OEM inks, and products from more established companies that are 60% to 70% of the cost of the OEM Brands.  (Just to be clear I'm not saying that this will occur in DTG, but it's exactly was happened in wide format)

One thing to be aware of is that the DTG equipment market is still in its relative infancy and the OEM's are heavily reliant on ink revenues to fund their R&D and Product Development programs.  It concerns me that an influx of 3rd party inks coming onto the market could slow down equipment and software development in this important garment decorating segment.

[Frog]

I thought that five years ago already there were other inks for these.
I remember hanging with a buddy at the Long Beach show who won some for his Fast T-Jet, which even improved clog resistance.
Then again, maybe it was a dream.

[Dottonedan]

Fast is good if it's quality.  If it's a banded reject then no good for my needs.

Just so you are aware, all digital printers can produce band at some time a little bit.
The most common reason would be two temporary instances.

1, ink starvation.
2, clogged a little with dry ink if it's not cleaned out properly when storing. They dry (after sitting not used for multiple days).

outside of that, although more rare, banding can be from the alignment /position off the heads but this would be noticeable at the factory or at install and addressed at that time.

[pwalsh]

I thought that five years ago already there were other inks for these.
I remember hanging with a buddy at the Long Beach show who won some for his Fast T-Jet, which even improved clog resistance.
Then again, maybe it was a dream.

Andy:  I didn't say that there weren't any 3rd party DTG inks on the market, just that they aren't particularly prominent right now.

[Frog]

I thought that five years ago already there were other inks for these.
I remember hanging with a buddy at the Long Beach show who won some for his Fast T-Jet, which even improved clog resistance.
Then again, maybe it was a dream.

Andy:  I didn't say that there weren't any 3rd party DTG inks on the market, just that they aren't particularly prominent right now.

I guess I assumed that even if choices have not increased at the same rate as DTG adoptions, sales of the existing choices would have.

[GraphicDisorder]

I think what makes this thread so great is usually when someone gets a DTG, they're not going to get another of a different brand, at least not right away. So rarely would you have the opportunity to do side-by-side comparisons.

So thanks again to Brandt for taking the time to do this.

And of course Rich Hoffman, who is actually providing the machine to make the comparison possible.

We have Rich to really thank for the second machine to make this possible.  We wouldn't have bought 2 different t brands just for the sake of comparing this.  So the real Kudos needs to be to him.  We will do our best to make it as fair as we can and regardless we will tell it like we see it.  More to come. 

[GraphicDisorder]

Fast is good if it's quality.  If it's a banded reject then no good for my needs.

Just so you are aware, all digital printers can produce band at some time a little bit.
The most common reason would be two temporary instances.

1, ink starvation.
2, clogged a little with dry ink if it's not cleaned out properly when storing. They dry (after sitting not used for multiple days).

outside of that, although more rare, banding can be from the alignment /position off the heads but this would be noticeable at the factory or at install and addressed at that time.

I am aware.  I'm also aware when a manufacture wants you to buy a machine they shouldn't send you a banded print lol.

[TCT]

Wow! Hadn't been on the forum for a few days, this thread blew up to say the least!

The thing is, go to post #2, Jvieira pointed out already. Is it fair to compare the 2? You are talking a 60% price difference!

[GraphicDisorder]

Wow! Hadn't been on the forum for a few days, this thread blew up to say the least!

The thing is, go to post #2, Jvieira pointed out already. Is it fair to compare the 2? You are talking a 60% price difference!

It's a big jump in price for sure.  I'm being as objective as possible.  Each so far has done prints amazing and each has had prints where I wasn't perfectly happy.  So far as we compare the print quality which is similar and the speed is similar we have to look at the ink costs difference....  It's drastic.  If your looking at margins you can't ignore that. It's easily 3x the cost per print on the brother so far.  I'm told the Brother wastes more ink as well and after we get some more prints on each I'll document what amount that was over what amount of prints/time. 

[GraphicDisorder]

So just a few ago we fired up both machines after being gone all weekend.  Both were shut down at the same time end of the day Friday.

Start up both at the same time this AM.  Did a nozzle check on each.  M&R's first one had 1 color needing a clean, we cleaned it and the second nozzle check was good to go.  The Brother same deal really except the machine had us run a white agitation procedure to start which is a fairly long process.  First nozzle check (colors only), the Brother needed 1 color cleaned 3 times to be clear.  The White needed 2 cleanings to be clear. 

So longer process to get to "ready" for the Brother in this scenario. (No idea if that will be the same story every week without some more time with each).  The difference was probably almost 10 minutes between the agitation and extra prints to clear nozzles.

Next up we are printing another test print on each machine and we will be printing it in the manner that looks best on each machine.  Ill report print time/ink cost/and any differences in print.

[jvanick]

Next up we are printing another test print on each machine and we will be printing it in the manner that looks best on each machine.  Ill report print time/ink cost/and any differences in print.

Brandt, thank you for doing all the hard core research as well as having both machines side by side to give a true comparison.

[GraphicDisorder]

Next up we are printing another test print on each machine and we will be printing it in the manner that looks best on each machine.  Ill report print time/ink cost/and any differences in print.

Brandt, thank you for doing all the hard core research as well as having both machines side by side to give a true comparison.

No problem, this has been fun for us as well.

[GraphicDisorder]

New test, straight vector image.  Did nothing to the files. Same print size on each, best settings on each we've seen best results from each.

Brother -
Print Time: 4:40
Ink Use: .52 CMYK / 4.75 White
Print Cost: $2.68

Mlink-
Print Time: 5:59
Ink Use: .47 CMYK / 2.29 White
Print Cost: $.70

Now... which matches the artwork on screen best?  The M&R by far.  The first image, left is Brother, Right is M&R.  The coverage is way better on the M&R, the Brother looks like it was a shirt printed without under-base (even though it did print it). The green and gold are way off.  Grey not to bad. The M&R the green is slightly off from the on screen artwork but I am being picking picky on that one. Image 2 is the Brother close up. Image 3 is the M&R close up.

In this case the Brother is terrible as far as the result, not even sell-able on this one if I was being honest. First one off the brother id say that I would not even close to sell-able compared to on screen artwork.