Author Topic: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?  (Read 1776 times)

Offline Mr Tees!!

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2011, 10:56:50 AM »
...OK, cool! I had already thought about the off contact issue, and figured that if I decided to go this route I would do so in conjuction with having a tech come out and do a good leveling to the new boards anyway. The use of shims to make up the difference is a nice touch.

...Tony, I know youve been in alot of places and printing environments, whats your take on this? Have you ever run presses this way?
Thanks TSB gang!!

...Sean, Mr Tees!!!


Offline tonypep

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2011, 12:13:00 PM »
The only presses I have run without rubber are Precision Ovals and Versatronics (at least that I can recall) The theory then (early 80's0 was hard platen + soft durometer squeegee= best print quality. Remember though flashing was new for most of us then. Back then pallet paper wasn't even a product so we used products like xylene to clean adhesive. Now, that said, their rival Advance used the rubber and well may have been the first to do so. Anyway changes in squeegee technology and screen tension (among other things) led to changes in how we approach screenprinting. Soon pretty much everyone got on board with the rubber, as flashing became a daily process.
So theres some history. Erics observations are all, of course, correct. I doubt that switching to aluminium surface will yield any benefits, especially with regards to applying paper. BTW by using a two person application switching paper on a ten color should take less than fifteen minutes.

Offline Shawn (EIP)

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2011, 12:19:21 PM »
The only presses I have run without rubber are Precision Ovals and Versatronics (at least that I can recall) The theory then (early 80's0 was hard platen + soft durometer squeegee= best print quality. Remember though flashing was new for most of us then. Back then pallet paper wasn't even a product so we used products like xylene to clean adhesive. Now, that said, their rival Advance used the rubber and well may have been the first to do so. Anyway changes in squeegee technology and screen tension (among other things) led to changes in how we approach screenprinting. Soon pretty much everyone got on board with the rubber, as flashing became a daily process.
So theres some history. Erics observations are all, of course, correct. I doubt that switching to aluminium surface will yield any benefits, especially with regards to applying paper. BTW by using a two person application switching paper on a ten color should take less than fifteen minutes.

The P Oval I had , had rubber tops but it was a far cry of what rubber tops look like today, it was very spongy in the middle and very hard on top and glued to wooden plattens.

Offline tonypep

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2011, 12:28:23 PM »
Thats right I forgot........the rubber would suck up the xylene and squish it on the shirts so many people removed it.

Offline jsheridan

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2011, 12:31:11 PM »
For sake of conversation..

All MHM machines have aluminum tops on their platens, always have and always will.

Ask Pierre how his prints.. oh that's right. He's won two awards  8)


Jakprints
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Offline Homer

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2011, 12:54:30 PM »
For sake of conversation..

All MHM machines have aluminum tops on their platens, always have and always will.

Ask Pierre how his prints.. oh that's right. He's won two awards  8)

I like you John, always going left when everyone else goes right. . . too funny man. . .

we have found too much heat and pressure on the squeegie can cause the tape to become a beast to remove. Also, going too long between changing it out can make it difficult. We have 4 layers of tape on ours, remove 1 a month, 6 weeks or so.
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...

Offline ebscreen

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2011, 12:57:34 PM »
BTW by using a two person application switching paper on a ten color should take less than fifteen minutes.


Testing this timing right now. Been ten minutes and they're at 9 and 10 respectively.


No rubber on the MHM though.

Offline tonypep

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2011, 01:10:54 PM »
Thats true I forgot that as well.

Offline jsheridan

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2011, 03:47:02 PM »
I've printed on some rubber topped platens before that were oh.. I'd say 12-16 yrs old.. they may as well of been aluminum as they were hard as the aluminum below them.

That brings up the next question... Who here ever replaces the rubber anyways?
I've done a few and that was mostly from someone leaving the press under the flash for lunch and that process sucks.
I've never just replaced all the rubber every few years like i think your're supposed to.
Jakprints
Production Manager, CA Division

Offline Shawn (EIP)

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2011, 04:51:23 PM »
I've printed on some rubber topped platens before that were oh.. I'd say 12-16 yrs old.. they may as well of been aluminum as they were hard as the aluminum below them.

That brings up the next question... Who here ever replaces the rubber anyways?
I've done a few and that was mostly from someone leaving the press under the flash for lunch and that process sucks.
I've never just replaced all the rubber every few years like i think your're supposed to.

When I had a Vastex I'd clean up the burned side , sand the platten top and glue the burned side down. Back to new looking plattens! I dont miss that smell of burning rubber.

Offline ebscreen

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2011, 11:30:23 PM »
When I got my first press, I replaced all the rubber on the pallets as it was rock hard.
Absolute nastiest worst job ever. No effing thanks. Getting the old adhesive off was
bad, used some kind of gel remover stuff that stank to high heaven and burned. Then
the 3M hi-temp adhesive is no walk in the park either. Though I've heard you can use regular
rubber cement, as long as you don't leave the pallet under the flash during lunchtime.

Offline Action1

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2011, 06:55:24 AM »
When I got my first press, I replaced all the rubber on the pallets as it was rock hard.
Absolute nastiest worst job ever. No effing thanks. Getting the old adhesive off was
bad, used some kind of gel remover stuff that stank to high heaven and burned. Then
the 3M hi-temp adhesive is no walk in the park either. Though I've heard you can use regular
rubber cement, as long as you don't leave the pallet under the flash during lunchtime.



We have some experience removing and replacing rubber on pallets. The method that we use to remove rubber is:
Use a box knife to cut the rubber lengthways into 3"- 4" wide strips.
Pull up one strip at a time.
Pour a liberal amount of mineral spirits onto surface and spread it over the pallet.
Put paper towels over the top to soak in the mineral spirits and hold it in place.
Leave for 45 minutes
You can then wipe off the adhesive with the paper towels. No other tools required.


To replace the rubber - we have instructions on our website. www.actionengineering.com - Click on the Supplies heading of the navigation menu.


Offline 244

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2011, 01:22:38 PM »
...man, I am SICK of the battle that is changing pallet tape. Given, I dont change it often, so it kinda stays on there for up to several months and usually flashed, but no matter what tape I try it still forms a death-bond with the pallet rubber. I used to work at a shop many years ago that just pulled the rubber off and we ran bare aluminum. This was a looong time ago, but I dont really remember any downside to doing this, although it does seem like they heated up faster.

...Do any of you use bare pallets? Why or why not? Since someone will ask, I have a Diamondback with composite pallets, I assume there is probably some reason you cant use those bare... maybe Rich will chime in on this, or maybe the guys at Action.

...thanks for the input!
Your print quality is a little better with rubber coated pallets. If you are having trouble removing the pallet tape you may be using a poor quality tape.tape should come off easily and in one piece. Send me an e-mail with what your are using and I will get you the right product to try.

Offline rmonks

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2011, 01:49:08 PM »
...man, I am SICK of the battle that is changing pallet tape. Given, I dont change it often, so it kinda stays on there for up to several months and usually flashed, but no matter what tape I try it still forms a death-bond with the pallet rubber. I used to work at a shop many years ago that just pulled the rubber off and we ran bare aluminum. This was a looong time ago, but I dont really remember any downside to doing this, although it does seem like they heated up faster.

...Do any of you use bare pallets? Why or why not? Since someone will ask, I have a Diamondback with composite pallets, I assume there is probably some reason you cant use those bare... maybe Rich will chime in on this, or maybe the guys at Action.

...thanks for the input!
Your print quality is a little better with rubber coated pallets. If you are having trouble removing the pallet tape you may be using a poor quality tape.tape should come off easily and in one piece. Send me an e-mail with what your are using and I will get you the right product to try.
244 would you share that product info with the rest of us. I to have problems with my tape sticking, but I probably leave it on too long.

Offline tonypep

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2011, 02:42:03 PM »
R-tape carries different series. The 4350 works best for me since I can remember. And yes even though my guys change out often its better than dealing with the consequences of leaving it on too long.