Author Topic: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?  (Read 10402 times)

Offline Mr Tees!!

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PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« on: November 02, 2011, 02:24:47 AM »
...man, I am SICK of the battle that is changing pallet tape. Given, I dont change it often, so it kinda stays on there for up to several months and usually flashed, but no matter what tape I try it still forms a death-bond with the pallet rubber. I used to work at a shop many years ago that just pulled the rubber off and we ran bare aluminum. This was a looong time ago, but I dont really remember any downside to doing this, although it does seem like they heated up faster.

...Do any of you use bare pallets? Why or why not? Since someone will ask, I have a Diamondback with composite pallets, I assume there is probably some reason you cant use those bare... maybe Rich will chime in on this, or maybe the guys at Action.

...thanks for the input!
Thanks TSB gang!!

...Sean, Mr Tees!!!


Offline Evo

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 02:45:42 AM »
I printed on a manual Hix maxhine for years that had all aluminum pallets. I hated it. It was a shop that split most of the water based work to two manual printers, and most of the plastisol to the auto.

We almost never dealt with flashing plastisol on the manual machines. When we did, it was much harder to get clean, opaque prints.

The rubber acts as a buffer between the substrate, pallet and squeegee pressure. It makes it much easier to get a sharp print that sits ON the shirt instead of in it.


Maybe the simple solution is change the brand of pallet tape, and change the tape more often? Some tapes don't play well with the rubber surface.

I use water based tack. You can scrub it off all the way back down to the pallet tape when needed. The pallet tape is the R-Tape stuff. Comes off easy when required (like every two months or so, or after a heavy fleece job)
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Online mk162

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 08:34:11 AM »
i'd buy some white rubber and contact cement and go to town.

Offline squeegee

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 08:59:47 AM »
So what tapes are rubbererized pallet friendly?  Anyone?

Offline alan802

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 09:24:12 AM »
We don't have this problem and we use R-tape.  We change ours sometimes weekly, sometimes bi-weekly so it peels off easily.  We did have a hard time with the tape sticking to our youth pallets but I think that is because we covered them when we first got them, used them for a few jobs and then they sat on the shelf for about 6 months and the tape was really on there.  Try pulling the tape off of a pallet after only a few days of use and see if it's much easier.
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Offline inkman996

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 09:28:31 AM »
I bet no matter what tape or what rubber he uses keeping it on for that long with flashing is going to make it stick. Ask M&R what rubber you have on them palettes if it is not the standard stuff they use now then get it switched. The rubber Action and M&R uses is the best there is. I wont even mention the garbage I have on my palettes now >:(
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Offline Action1

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 09:45:59 AM »
...man, I am SICK of the battle that is changing pallet tape. Given, I dont change it often, so it kinda stays on there for up to several months and usually flashed, but no matter what tape I try it still forms a death-bond with the pallet rubber. I used to work at a shop many years ago that just pulled the rubber off and we ran bare aluminum. This was a looong time ago, but I dont really remember any downside to doing this, although it does seem like they heated up faster.

...Do any of you use bare pallets? Why or why not? Since someone will ask, I have a Diamondback with composite pallets, I assume there is probably some reason you cant use those bare... maybe Rich will chime in on this, or maybe the guys at Action.

...thanks for the input!


Thank you for requesting our input on this subject. Pallet rubber has many advantages. The only downside of using the rubber is that it's not free. The challenge that you have described does happen when materials are not compatible or the paper has been over-flashed and not changed for long periods. It has been our conclusion for many years that the addition of soft top rubber to your pallets results in numerous advantages that impact print quality and production rates.


 Here is additional information on this material

Soft Top Rubber - 1/8" Thick, 75 Duromter - White

Soft Top Rubber Material has been used on Textile Printing Pallets for at least 4 decades. During that time, the material has been refined to accomplish and improve all of the characteristics that are important to textile screen printing.

These important characteristics are:

    Smooth Flat Lay which is completely transparent in the print. That is – Blemish Free with no gash, bubble, or aberration of any kind. Transparent in the print so that nothing on the rubber is transferred as a background or ghost
    Heat Resistance to the normal expectations of flash productivity.
    Quality Lamination to the Aluminum – Chiefly Responsible for overall quality. The Soft Top Rubber must be laminated perfectly to achieve

The Use of Soft Top Rubber on pallets has many advantages:

Better Quality of Print – The primary Advantage is that The material – “normalizes” – the inaccuracies of the printing machinery. That is, all the three printing planes should ideally be in alignment. The Three Printing Planes are:

    Travel Vector of the Squeegee
    Screen Plane Alignment
    Pallet Plane Alignment.

The compression characteristic of the rubber acts to reduce the effect that plane misalignment has on the quality and density control of your product.

Easy Control & Consistent Image Density - There is a noticeable difference in the consistency over both long & short runs. The Rubber acts to reduce mesh degradation and emulsion breakdown and will require less overall screen attention during the run.

Reduced Costs & Flashing Times and Increased Production - Very, Very Important Benefit.  But First - some background...Solid Aluminum is the worlds best material for printing. It's cost efficient, flat, durable, heat resistant, and very rigid. Also important is that it dissipates heat very quickly. This is sometimes good but usually not when flashing.  The addition of the rubber to the aluminum dramatically increases the heat dissipation time while effectively 'blanketing' the aluminum to trap the heat in.  Now finally to the real question of why that is good - Heat Costs Money & Time to Generate. Keep the pallets warm and they will require less heat to keep hot between flashes. That means that not only are you saving money on the cost of running your flash cure unit, but you are also producing faster.

Better Adherence of the Print to the Garment - The compression of the rubber allows the garment weave to flex and stretch when the squeegee presses it hard into the rubber. This stretch behavior allows for better penetration of the into the garment. Let's remember that an ideal print is ultra smooth to the 'Hand' and can withstand being washed a million times. These are usually trade offs.  The better penetration of the ink into the material will increase the 'hand' quality and durability of your print.

Summary - The Addition of the Soft Top Rubber to your Pallets has many obvious and some not so obvious benefits. As compared to pallets without Rubber, the differences are dramatic. Production Costs are decreased while increasing production speed and dramatically increasing Quality. A majority of the best known and respected shops in the world have discovered it's benefits. After Producing Pallets for All Automatic & Manual Textile Printers for the last 12 years, I have never known a printer who had lengthy experience with both say that the difference is not obvious.



Another article written many years ago - by your truly. circa 1995

Pallets are essentially jigs, which allow your press to change print areas, shirt sizes, substrate types, and to accomplish specialty applications such as printing on socks and sleeves. The use of the term jig here is quite appropriate. As a manufacturer of parts and accessories, we ourselves are continuously designing and implementing new jigs that may help and improve our production. Our jigs, like your pallets, have a useable life span mostly determined by materials quality and usage. Printing Pallets come in different sizes, shapes, and materials. All three of these characteristics must be considered when making the best choice for your production needs.

•  Important Characteristics of a Pallet

•  Whether using a manual or an automatic or any pallet shape, size, or material – your pallet must be flat.

•  Pallets must be very rigid and flex resistant

•  Pallets surface must be free of any dents, scratches, or any aberration

•  If using a flash, pallet material must be flash compatible.

 
Advances in Screen Printing Production and their effects on Pallets

Before discussing the best material for your application it's necessary to first look at the comparative history of printing pallets to other attributes of the printing process.

•  Advances and Changes in Flashing – There is no other area of production advancement which has had as much impact on printing pallets as flashing. Through the years, we have all seen a tremendous increase in the amount of flashing being implemented during production. As well, the temperatures that are now used are significantly higher.

But even more important for our discussion than temperature is the term ‘power density'. Power Density is simply the flash wattage divided by the flash area. It's actually this flash specification which has increased the greatest. Many of you may recall the older hydraulic oval shaped machines and the OEM built flash cures for it. The Power Density of those units were/ is approximately 15-watts/ sq. inch. Today's quartz flash cure units are typically in the range 30-45 watts/ sq. inch & higher Additionally, the infrared units are significantly higher also. That is to say that today we are using two to three times as much flashing power per flash as we were 5 to 10 years ago. While at the same time using 2,3 and even 4 flashes where we were previously using none or one.

The effects of this advancement on printing pallets – Herein lies the largest detriment to the life of your pallet. With these higher power densities, the amount of heat imparted to the pallet itself has increased with the same ratio. That is to say, we're heating our pallets to temperatures never before attained in half the time by using higher powered multiple flashes. Then, we keep them hot for 4 times as long as we used to, basically never let them cool down. Guess what – there's no known cost compatible material that will last indefinitely. Please note the wording used there, cost compatible. Could you cost justify spending 3 to 4 times as much for some of the space age exotic materials? How about a 16” x 22” pallet for $400?If you're willing to spend this, then we do have materials that tested better than the Solid or Honeycomb Aluminum. The environment is just too brutal. Even the heat shields on the outside of the space shuttles have to be continuously replaced because of the heat degradation.

Advances in Screen Tension – Another advance made in our industry that greatly effects the contribution of your pallet to your print quality is the ever-increasing screen tensions. In short, the tighter the tension of your screens, the more prevalent pallet surface aberrations become in the print. While only a few years ago, a low-tension screen would easily conform to any contour, that is not the case today.


Advances in Pallet Materials – Generally speaking, there has been only one significant material addition for use as a pallet and one advancement. That material is honeycomb and that advancement is discussed in more detail below. However this material itself has limitations. It has been the experience and observation of this author that honeycomb Aluminum as used for a printing pallet requires a thickness of no less than 3/8”. The thicker the honeycomb aluminum laminate the stronger and more heat resistant it becomes. At thickness of less than 3/8” it has been observed that the material exhibits an unacceptably high level of degradation. Our company only offers a ½” Honeycomb laminate in our material selections for the reasons stated.


Pallet Paper – If you haven't heard of this material by now than you've either just entered the wonderful world of screen-printing or you just need to read this publication more often. Pallet paper is essentially very wide masking tape sold in various widths such as 18”. After covering the pallet surface with it, your pallet gets protected from several harsh elements and affords you a reduction in clean up time. It's an up-front expense which is easily cost justified.


These advances were developed for one reason and one reason only, to increase production quality and rates. While in the past it was typical to see a multi-flash job with a noticeable dwell delay, it's now common for the production rates of a job with multiple flash units to be comparable to those jobs with no flashes. Additionally, this speed is being accomplished using screens many times the previous tension with artwork of greater resolution and complexity.

•  Current Materials Available on Market


Soft Top Rubber – This material is actually a covering for your pallet and not considered a pallet material. It's important to reference this material here because it can be applied to any of the other mentioned materials.

The 1/8” thick, heat resistant rubber provides an excellent printing surface across the board. (No-Pun) This surface offers many advantages. Slight inaccuracies in the alignment of the printing planes are absorbed by this surface while providing an improved ink shear & penetration.
 

   This material is designed to withstand very high flashing temperatures. However, if left under a flash cure unit, the rubber starts to smoke and then melt and burn as shown here.

The addition of rubber to your pallet has upsides and downsides. First the downsides, it costs money and eventually requires replacement. The upsides are numerous. The rubber normalizes any inaccuracies in the trueness of your printing planes and of material thickness tolerance of the pallet. That is, we're all aware that especially on our automatic, it's vitally important for the pallets, frames, and squeegee stroke plane to be as parallel as possible. That's the reason for leveling heads to pallets. Regarding material thickness tolerances, man made layers of material such as aluminum, double sided tape, glue, rubber – they all have manufacturers stated tolerance ranges. Any slight inaccuracy on your press will be normalized with the use of a soft material under the substrate. Other benefits as noted by this author and other screen printers would be reduced pinholes, increased mesh life & better substrate penetration.


The addition of Soft Top Rubber does increase the thermal retention of your pallet. That is – it does holds the heat in and pallets with rubber will stay warm longer than a pallet without rubber. Heating these materials separately resulted in no significant difference in thermal emission rates between the two. The change in emission rates, or time to cool down, is caused by the creation of thermal reflections at the contact surfaces of the laminate material. This of course has pros and cons in and of itself. Pallets that stay warm require less flash time, but the spray tack adhesive on the pallets degrades more quickly.


Melamine Clad MDF – This is the most common material used for the manufacturing of pallets for manual presses. Specifically, it's a wood composite material known as Medium Density Fiberboard, which has a top and sometimes bottom piece of white Melamine material laminated to it. The melamine is a kitchen countertop-like material, which is very smooth and flat. The upside of this material is the cost. The downside of this material is its durability. This material is good for very limited production but its level of degradation is very high when used with flash cures.


Solid Aluminum with and without Soft Top Rubber – This is the most recommended and widely used material configuration today. For quality, durability, and price nothing compares. The choice of aluminum is very important, as there are many different grades available. Through experience we have found that there is no substitute for the best materials. We experimented with less expensive grades of aluminum for a short while many years ago, but quickly found that the quality differences between the various grades of materials were extensive.

Absolutely, the most durable surface. The aluminum should be the best available and manufactured for flatness. With or without rubber, the surface easily withstands trauma, and can be refinished if necessary.


Solid Aluminum can handle the heat of a flash better than any other cost class of material that this author is familiar with. Its upside is durability and its biggest detriment is the weight. Solid Aluminum is the heaviest of the materials available today. For applications requiring large format pallets, it's often recommended that honeycomb be used instead of the solid material recognizing the obvious trade of durability for less weight and machine load.


Honeycomb Aluminum with and without rubber. The only significant advancement in material choices for the last 10 years has been honeycomb aluminum. Brought to us by designers & suppliers to the aviation industry, it's a three layer laminated material manufactured using two thin sheets of aluminum and a core referred to as honeycomb. This core material is what makes the overall laminate advantageous for some applications.

Cross Sectional View of HoneyComb core material. This core material is what makes the overall laminate advantageous for some applications. Viewed from above, the core looks like a beehive.
   
A Larger Cell size in the core will reduce weight, however it also decreases the amount of glue line.

When it's glued with the top and bottom layer the result is an exceptionally rigid & heat warpage resistant, ultra-lightweight material. The weight of ½” honeycomb laminate is 75% less than that of ¼” solid aluminum. That is, the density of solid aluminum is 8 times that of honeycomb. It's this lightweight characteristic which would make it a better choice for some printing applications. Those applications as mentioned previously are for jumbo format printing. This term jumbo format is somewhat subjective but generally implies those sizes that are over 20” x 24”. A good application of Honeycomb would be for a pallet of size 24” x 30” and of course higher. There are several downsides to honeycomb. It's fragile and must be handled with care. Honeycomb without rubber is susceptible to surface dents


Another downside is, it's become much more expensive for our use in the last year. This is basic supply and demand. The relatively small number of U.S. companies that manufacture the core honeycomb material are extremely busy because of recent aviation contracts, a robust economy and the generally increasing popularity of this material. Whereas, last year a pallet made of solid aluminum was basically the same price as honeycomb, that is not the case at the present time.


The ability of Honeycomb Aluminum to withstand repeated flashing is tremendous. Honeycomb handles the heat. But, only up to a point. It's still a laminate made with heat degradable epoxy. While the density of Honeycomb is so much less than that of its solid counterpart it's logical to assume that less heat energy is retained by the material. Testing has found this not to be the case. In fact, it was found that the Honeycomb material actually took longer to cool down than the solid. We can attribute this to the laminate nature of the material. Again we see evidence of thermal reflections caused by changes in thermal conductivity between the layers. Adding Rubber to the surface resulted in even greater thermal retainance, thus holding the heat in even longer.


Other Materials – Our company has experimented with various materials such as Dupont's Corian TM , Allied Signals-Granite Clad Composites, glass,  and a few others. They all looked great at first, but after a few weeks or even hours in our environment they degraded to useless or did not meet other logistical requirements. Other materials are on the horizon however and we are continuously tracking material advancements that might improve on the pallets that you use.

 
Summary

The point of all this is for you and your company personnel to understand the current status of pallet materials research and the proper care and evaluation of your most important printing accessory. Your pallets will make and break the quality of your product. If you flash them, you have a finite number of prints on each one. A good analogy for all of you racing fans – If your favorite driver keeps his gas pedal all the way on the floor, all of the time, than his chances of crashing increase and he'll certainly wear out his tires and other parts prematurely. A good driver knows how to pick his equipment and pace himself and his machinery for optimum performance.

 

The facts are – flashing technology has advanced faster than pallet material advancements. This has resulted in the ability of your flashing jobs to be produced with almost the same production rates as a simple 1-color job. All this is great except for one thing. If your going to take brand new pallets, with freshly applied non-cured adhesive and run wide open like that, you will be reducing the life-span of your pallets. This is of course a trade off. If you do the math, it turns out that you'll still cost justify killing your pallets for the increased production.

 
Does and Don'ts of Pallets

Do use the best pallet material for the job.

Do use Pallet Paper.

Don't soak your pallets in cleaning agents.

Don't over-flash them.

Do-Praise them occasionally for a job well done.

Our company is currently testing and evaluating the latest and greatest materials available on the market. Many of these do look promising, but so far – nothing competes for cost and performance like the ones available today and listed here. You'll be sure to hear about any major developments either from us or from your friends.

The very best of luck to all of you during this very busy & promising season in our industry.

Offline Action1

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 09:59:51 AM »
We don't have this problem and we use R-tape.  We change ours sometimes weekly, sometimes bi-weekly so it peels off easily.  We did have a hard time with the tape sticking to our youth pallets but I think that is because we covered them when we first got them, used them for a few jobs and then they sat on the shelf for about 6 months and the tape was really on there.  Try pulling the tape off of a pallet after only a few days of use and see if it's much easier.

R-Tape is the most commonly used pallet paper that we are familiar with.  Use their pallet paper and rubber purchased from us.

Offline tonypep

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 10:18:38 AM »
All very good and useful information Eric but.........If we're going to get all techno on the subject shouldn't we be referring to them as platens? :P
JK!

Offline Action1

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 10:20:44 AM »
All very good and useful information Eric but.........If we're going to get all techno on the subject shouldn't we be referring to them as platens? :P
JK!

Pallets, Platens, shirt boards, thing-a-ma-jiggies - they all work
 :)

Offline Mr Tees!!

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 10:26:06 AM »
...thanks for the feedback gang, please keep it coming!

...yes, I have always kind of suspected that the amount of time playes a big role. I also use WB tack, and find that a quick scrub with some water pulls the lint off and reactivates the tack, so unless I print a pallet of something like that I dont NEED to change it very often.

....I have tried the double layer approach, and although it hepled some, the one I attempted to change last night had the two layers stuck to each other as well as the rubber.

...Seems like someone would get the bright idea to develop and manufacture something specifically for this purpose. The application tape we all repurpose for this is clearly not intended for high-heat and long term abuse. A covering with maybe less aggressive adhesive and a much thicker, heavier paper would probably be wonderful, dont you think?

...I checked my roll of tape here, it is R-Tape RLA 4050. Are there different grades and maybe I have one that is too aggresive? What do you guys use, and where do you order it from?

...concerning the use of the rubber itself, wouldnt the dissipation of heat with bare pallets be an upside? I know when Im running a white base on fleece it sure would be. or a white base at all, for that matter.

...I also have to question the idea of the rubber "giving" and helping with any inconsistencies. Most of us run squeege rubber that would give before the pallet rubber would. I know that it doesnt give at all when I press on it. And in our industry, if you are using the kind of pressure to make that stuff give, then clearly you are using WAAAY too much pressure for printing textiles.

...I decided to try the bare metal approach on my maual press, we will see how this works over time.

...Action1 (Erik?)...if I wanted to purchase a set without the rubber topping, do you make that available, and would it affect the cost? maybe a general price point on a set of eight 16 x22?

...you guys alll rock, thanks again for the input!
Thanks TSB gang!!

...Sean, Mr Tees!!!

Offline tonypep

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 10:30:08 AM »
If you have rubber now you will need to re level the press to raise the off contact.

Offline Action1

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 10:42:57 AM »
...thanks for the feedback gang, please keep it coming!

...yes, I have always kind of suspected that the amount of time playes a big role. I also use WB tack, and find that a quick scrub with some water pulls the lint off and reactivates the tack, so unless I print a pallet of something like that I dont NEED to change it very often.

....I have tried the double layer approach, and although it hepled some, the one I attempted to change last night had the two layers stuck to each other as well as the rubber.

...Seems like someone would get the bright idea to develop and manufacture something specifically for this purpose. The application tape we all repurpose for this is clearly not intended for high-heat and long term abuse. A covering with maybe less aggressive adhesive and a much thicker, heavier paper would probably be wonderful, dont you think?

...I checked my roll of tape here, it is R-Tape RLA 4050. Are there different grades and maybe I have one that is too aggresive? What do you guys use, and where do you order it from?

...concerning the use of the rubber itself, wouldnt the dissipation of heat with bare pallets be an upside? I know when Im running a white base on fleece it sure would be. or a white base at all, for that matter.

...I also have to question the idea of the rubber "giving" and helping with any inconsistencies. Most of us run squeege rubber that would give before the pallet rubber would. I know that it doesnt give at all when I press on it. And in our industry, if you are using the kind of pressure to make that stuff give, then clearly you are using WAAAY too much pressure for printing textiles.

...I decided to try the bare metal approach on my maual press, we will see how this works over time.

...Action1 (Erik?)...if I wanted to purchase a set without the rubber topping, do you make that available, and would it affect the cost? maybe a general price point on a set of eight 16 x22?

...you guys alll rock, thanks again for the input!

Yes - we can provide your pallet without rubber. As Tony mentioned there will be an off-contact change. We have 1/8" shim plates that we put between the bracket and the pallet to compensate for this change and you will not require an adjustment to your machine. Please contact our office to discuss your requirements. 800/228-4668



Offline Shawn (EIP)

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 10:48:39 AM »
Not sure if it makes a difference but I use tape used for vinyl work (transfer tape?) I actualy have to tack the tops of my plattens then the tape or else the tape will peel up with the first few shirts.

Offline tonypep

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Re: PALLETS: rubber-topped vs bare metal, your thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 10:53:04 AM »
...thanks for the feedback gang, please keep it coming!

...yes, I have always kind of suspected that the amount of time playes a big role. I also use WB tack, and find that a quick scrub with some water pulls the lint off and reactivates the tack, so unless I print a pallet of something like that I dont NEED to change it very often.

....I have tried the double layer approach, and although it hepled some, the one I attempted to change last night had the two layers stuck to each other as well as the rubber.

...Seems like someone would get the bright idea to develop and manufacture something specifically for this purpose. The application tape we all repurpose for this is clearly not intended for high-heat and long term abuse. A covering with maybe less aggressive adhesive and a much thicker, heavier paper would probably be wonderful, dont you think?

...I checked my roll of tape here, it is R-Tape RLA 4050. Are there different grades and maybe I have one that is too aggresive? What do you guys use, and where do you order it from?

...concerning the use of the rubber itself, wouldnt the dissipation of heat with bare pallets be an upside? I know when Im running a white base on fleece it sure would be. or a white base at all, for that matter.

...I also have to question the idea of the rubber "giving" and helping with any inconsistencies. Most of us run squeege rubber that would give before the pallet rubber would. I know that it doesnt give at all when I press on it. And in our industry, if you are using the kind of pressure to make that stuff give, then clearly you are using WAAAY too much pressure for printing textiles.

...I decided to try the bare metal approach on my maual press, we will see how this works over time.

...Action1 (Erik?)...if I wanted to purchase a set without the rubber topping, do you make that available, and would it affect the cost? maybe a general price point on a set of eight 16 x22?

...you guys alll rock, thanks again for the input!

Yes - we can provide your pallet without rubber. As Tony mentioned there will be an off-contact change. We have 1/8" shim plates that we put between the bracket and the pallet to compensate for this change and you will not require an adjustment to your machine. Please contact our office to discuss your requirements. 800/228-4668

An excellent solution my friend!