Author Topic: Ink Seps  (Read 2994 times)

Offline xcelr8hard

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Ink Seps
« on: September 07, 2017, 07:56:37 PM »
Is anybody using this?
https://www.inkseps.com/
I used the search function, but didn't find much.
What are your thoughts? I am just getting into raster seps. I have no experience with any of the automated sep programs.

Thanks,
Butch


Offline Colin

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2017, 08:56:13 AM »
They make you upload a lossy format file.... Seps from jpegs and png's are sub optimal.

Also, there is nothing special about what they are doing compared to other sep programs.  All of them are tools to get you closer to a workable image that you then need to spend time adjusting for best results.
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now the Ink and Chemical Product Manager at Ryonet.

Offline Atownsend

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2017, 11:49:47 PM »
Looks like you have to use their ink set to make the seps work properly. I don't think that should be necessary... maybe I'm being cynical but it sounds like they want to sell some ink. If their seps were that great, they should work with any ink set so long as you can match the colors in the art. We use ultra seps which plugs into PS, I couldn't be happier. It does 90% of what we need it to do and then some. Even though we use a sep program, we also know our limits. If I know something is super complicated and is going to take me more than an hour or two, I send it out to a pro. Sometimes its best to have another set of experienced eyes look at a sep. You can also learn a lot from this, sometimes I see things engineered in ways that I would have overlooked, or I get an aha moment where, I see how something worked. Saving that time allows you to focus on the variables you can control. RIP / dot gain / density calibration for one, but also making sure the fundamentals of the print are in line, calibrated exposures, tension, EOM, press parameters etc.

Offline zanegun08

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 12:16:19 AM »
I like all new technologies like this, and web based is cool.  I spent last night geeking out on the videos, it would be nicer if it wasn't trying to tie you into their ink system, and if you didn't have to use corel draw.  Although while writing this post it seems they have a photoshop importer as well, but not sure if it does the interlocking halftone as they don't have a video on the site.

However, the interlocking haftone feature looks, I wish all rips had a way to achieve that with ease, you can do it in photoshop bitmaps but it is such a tedious process.  But printing 100% ink coverage (though you need "perfect registration") seems better than the current industry standard of dots on dots.

The downside is it seems that you can't adjust much compared to photoshop, the separations it exports are greyscale png's so you could take those into photoshop and put them in channels and edit them like that.  You can't pick a color not in their range of inks, but you don't necessarily have their exact inks, I bet you could simulate a close print with just using similar pantone colors.

They make you upload a lossy format file.... Seps from jpegs and png's are sub optimal.

I don't agree with this, a 300 DPI image at 100% scale I think would get the same results wether it a JPEG, PNG, TIFF, PSD.  For one we are taking a 300 DPI and turning it into 45-70/80 LPI as an extreme, what little loss you may have becomes irrelevant once we halftone it and print it on a shirt.

Also, there is nothing special about what they are doing compared to other sep programs.  All of them are tools to get you closer to a workable image that you then need to spend time adjusting for best results.

The interlocking halftone feature is something that is different than other systems, it's quick, and web based isn't a downside in my opinion as they can keep updating it on their end and you are always using the most up to date version.

It looks cool, we have Ultra Seps, a person who does it manually, but I still prefer to sub out as when we do it in house they always make tweaks and changes, and when we sub out (myseps, dottonedan, netseps), 95% of the time they run great with 0 screen changes and minor ink tweaks compared to our in house person and ultraseps.

As you can see I have tried many things, the inkseps looks cool, if they gave you pantone equivalents to print with instead of using their inks I think they could get more users, and then maybe people would just buy the stock inks if the system works good.  I wouldn't want to invest in all the ink to not end up liking the separation system.

Offline Colin

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2017, 12:38:32 PM »


They make you upload a lossy format file.... Seps from jpegs and png's are sub optimal.

I don't agree with this, a 300 DPI image at 100% scale I think would get the same results wether it a JPEG, PNG, TIFF, PSD.  For one we are taking a 300 DPI and turning it into 45-70/80 LPI as an extreme, what little loss you may have becomes irrelevant once we halftone it and print it on a shirt.

Also, there is nothing special about what they are doing compared to other sep programs.  All of them are tools to get you closer to a workable image that you then need to spend time adjusting for best results.

There is loss of detail and info in both your shadow areas and highlites when you convert to a lossy format.  Been there, pulled my hair out trying to make it look right... This is why I now shave my head ;) .  Lines are not as sharp... things are just fuzzy in comparison when you have an original image and seps to compare it to.

If you are pounding out design after design and don't have a need to care about details, then sure, it will work just fine for you.  If you are a shop that cares about the details and gets paid for the details, then its not worth it.

I have worked with jpgs, png is a bit better/cleaner.  But oh man...... its like buying a $800 chefs knife and then never ever sharpening it and using it to cut your steak on a ceramic plate.... (shudder)

If you have an option to use an original image, get a program that lets you use that original image.
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now the Ink and Chemical Product Manager at Ryonet.

Offline zanegun08

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2017, 11:42:27 PM »
If you have an option to use an original image, get a program that lets you use that original image.

Yes, but the question is what format is an original image?  If it's made digitally of course, but a scanner can san into any format.

Since I have to much time, I made a vector smart object at 600 dpi, could be 300, or 150 it's all the same.  Transparent background, and saved it as a jpeg, tif, png, all zoomed in at 300 percent in the same tip of an arrow.  The only one that has a downside is jpeg makes it non transparent so I added a white background to the others for a fair comparison rather than the two being on checkerboard.  You see they are all the exact same.

Unless you are compressing your images when you save it, filetype doesn't really mean anything towards quality (within reason, gif is color limited, obviously I'm not advocating .ppt and .doc)


Offline Sbrem

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 10:26:00 AM »
Many years ago we used to use Jeff Campos at Electronic Design Group for our high end seps after meeting him at a show, nice work always. He required that we sent a 300 ppi jpeg, which confused me based on what I had read up to that time, and the seps were beautiful. As long as they were at 300 ppi at the finished size or larger. When you get down to it, converting to halftones, putting it on screen fabric and printing onto a t-shirt pretty much mucks up those finer points, but if the shirt looks great, it looks great.

Steve
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Offline tonypep

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 12:18:27 PM »
Yeah Jeff closed up EDG ys ago he was one of the best. Expensive though and that was one of the issues that forced him to close

Offline ScreenFoo

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 12:24:06 PM »
If you have an option to use an original image, get a program that lets you use that original image.

Yes, but the question is what format is an original image?  If it's made digitally of course, but a scanner can san into any format.

Since I have to much time, I made a vector smart object at 600 dpi, could be 300, or 150 it's all the same.  Transparent background, and saved it as a jpeg, tif, png, all zoomed in at 300 percent in the same tip of an arrow.  The only one that has a downside is jpeg makes it non transparent so I added a white background to the others for a fair comparison rather than the two being on checkerboard.  You see they are all the exact same.

Unless you are compressing your images when you save it, filetype doesn't really mean anything towards quality (within reason, gif is color limited, obviously I'm not advocating .ppt and .doc)

Just a couple points:  GIF and PNG are usually referred to as 'lossless' compression standards.  As you point out, GIF had color limits, that's the main reason PNG came about.  Either format should not have significant print issues inherent to the type of file being used for spot color.  JPG on the other hand, can be anywhere from really nice at high resolutions and low compression ratios to horrid at the opposite.  Even the best examples will have significant differences from the original file if you look close enough, and even simple spot color designs will rarely come away unscathed. 

Colin is right on here, you may be able to get a decent looking shirt out of 120 DPI JPG, but it won't be easy, and it could easily look better with the proper file up front.
If you can get either a lossless compression format, or even just uncompressed like TIFF at high res, your life is easier period.

Offline Sbrem

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 04:50:35 PM »
I'll recommend having PhotoZoom Pro in your Photoshop arsenal (Homer will chime in here I bet) When I can't get anything else, this will give some fairly good results, depending of course on the original.

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline bimmridder

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 07:18:19 PM »
Homer won't chime in anytime soon. He's too busy dancing because his Bills are in first place in their division!!!
Barth Gimble

Printing  (not well) for 25 years. Running  four M&R autos, 2 CTS. Strong in licensed sports apparel. Plastisol printer. Located in Cedar Rapids, IA

Offline mk162

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2017, 10:18:52 AM »
I gave this program a shot, and honestly, for what it is, it's fantastic.

I used in house inks.  I may get some of theirs, the prices are good, shipping is terrible though.

I can't post pics of the prints, but we did 2 different ones, and I was impressed with both.  I would say better than what you get from some of the PS actions out there.

I wish there was an undo button though.

I didn't adjust anything except I combined the cyan and blue plates and used a color halfway between cyan and royal.  Worked great.  The image wasn't blue heavy, but it did have some lighter tones of it so that worked, if it had a larger blocky area, I wouldn't have done it.

I imported the files into corel, and ran them through the M&R I-image rip(I-block?).

Offline mimosatexas

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2017, 10:21:28 AM »
Homer won't chime in anytime soon. He's too busy dancing because his Bills are in first place in their division!!!

Like that will last...lol

Offline Northland

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2017, 11:36:13 AM »
Is anybody using this?
https://www.inkseps.com/
I used the search function, but didn't find much.
What are your thoughts? I am just getting into raster seps. I have no experience with any of the automated sep programs.

Thanks,
Butch

I'm not sure what the relationship is between InkSeps / SimpleSeps / Advanced Tshirt / Advanced artist... but there's some connection.
There appears to be a similar (sister) product called:
Simpleseps
https://www.advancedtshirts.com/product/simpleseps-4-0-smartrip-screen-printing-halftone-rip-software/

It is a separation program and a RIP in one.
Looks like it has some really helpful features like:
Separation using Coreldraw.... which is attractive to me (because I have no Photoshop skills)
Auto baseplate
Auto trap or choke
RIP using all printer channels (looks like any printer model)
Halftone preview

I've been a FilmMaker RIP user for many years but have always wanted some other back-up RIP ( in case my FilmMaker craps out temporairily)
And, I've been needing to upgrade to Corel X6 or X8 (which is required for SimpleSeps).

Both Advanced T-shirt and Advanced Artist have inexpensive Coreldraw training videos (some free)



Offline Frog

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Re: Ink Seps
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2017, 12:56:50 PM »
I gave this program a shot, and honestly, for what it is, it's fantastic.

I used in house inks.  I may get some of theirs, the prices are good, shipping is terrible though.

I can't post pics of the prints, but we did 2 different ones, and I was impressed with both.  I would say better than what you get from some of the PS actions out there.

I wish there was an undo button though.

I didn't adjust anything except I combined the cyan and blue plates and used a color halfway between cyan and royal.  Worked great.  The image wasn't blue heavy, but it did have some lighter tones of it so that worked, if it had a larger blocky area, I wouldn't have done it.

I imported the files into corel, and ran them through the M&R I-image rip(I-block?).

I had a teacher once who encouraged us to alternate between two different versions/copies of pending artwork files to always have an older version to which to return just in case.
"It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide"