Amazon making a huge first step - what do you guys think?

[Prōdigium]

Of course as with many things, being out of the country (America that is) for the past 7+ years I am behind the times on a few things, some of them I am fine with but others come as a surprise. Maybe they should not, but this one is.

Personally I am of the sound conviction that DTG will NEVER do away with actual screen printing, there is simply no way to do things like glitter inks on a DTG and a good number of other things, but I am willing to concede that if this program rolls out across the country it will have a significant impact on those "bread & butter" jobs that small printers live on.

Rather than go into detail I will simply post the link and ask....What do you guys think of this?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/pennsylvania-approves-amazon-woot-plant-norristown-20171116.html?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_feed%3BwfE2QqmTSPGfqTT55oNsbQ%3D%3D

[merchmonster]

Never say never?  DTG main limitations are slow production times, high ink cost, weak spot color performance, pretreating, and inconsistency of performance on different substrates. If DTG manufacturers can get past those hurdles, screen print will go away.

[mk162]

Those are a lot of hurdles.  Saying never is a dangerous thing.  20 years from now the landscape will look entirely different.  5 years from now, I doubt much will change.

I think the death of screen printing as a means of production will and after I'm gone.

[Nation03]

There will always be a place for screen printing. DTG is getting better, but I don't see how it can ever reach production speeds of screen printing and/or have ink costs as low as screen printing. Digital is getting better and there is definitely a permanent place for it in the garment decorating industry, but I think both services will coexist just fine for the foreseeable future and beyond. 

[numbercruncher]

Technological progress moves at a faster pace when the economy is growing.

[Sbrem]

Those are a lot of hurdles.  Saying never is a dangerous thing.  20 years from now the landscape will look entirely different.  5 years from now, I doubt much will change.

I think the death of screen printing as a means of production will and after I'm gone.

In 5 years, I plan to be done, so I guess I'd best make my money while I can, and just close at the end, unless of course, we make a plan for a different outcome, but I admit I'm getting tired...

Steve

[SEPSINK]

The thought of having to maintain 48 avalanches makes my head spin. Good luck with that!

[T Shirt Farmer]

I would think Custom Ink and other key players are not thrilled with this.

[Colin]

My Main question is:

What are the average order sizes going to be and how much per piece?

I don't expect Amazon to win many 100 pc + orders.  I expect screen printing will win out.

But for the smaller sized runs.  Like a school club or the 24 pcs for a family members funeral or a family get together, that I expect Amazon to do well on.  I also expect returns, misprints, bad art etc to be quite high for some time until they get a solid crew that doesn't leave in 6 months.

Then, when they see their actual overhead and consumables, prices will go up some...

Its here to stay.  Where will its niche be?

[cleveprint]

one thing to remember is amazon doesnt care if they make too much money on something like this. they will lose money for 5 years and not care. they care about volume and volume alone. eventually they will make it profitable like they have every other part of their business. they want people to buy into their culture and stay there. if someone is ordering their spiderman plates and cups for their kids birthday party there, why not get the shirts too? its one checkout and free prime shipping! from a convenience standpoint, its a no brainer. the average consumer does not care about print quality. only we do!!

[Maxie]

I agree never say never.
Digital is getting faster and cheaper.
At the moment most DTGs don’t print pre treatment, and  print white and then CYMK.
I think Kornit already has one that has seperate heads for pre treatment, white and CYMK.     This obviously makes it much faster.
Take into consideration that you have no screens, (coating, exposing, checking, set up, break down, cleaning etc.)
I think that already on a lot of jobs digital is cheaper and as the industry grows the printers will be faster and cheaper, inks will be cheaper and there will be generic suppliers.
How many of us use EPSON printers with EPSON cassettes?
Fortunately for us the fast printers are still very expensive.
Our biggest expense is labor, Amazon will have a automated system that brings the shirt to the printer.
Packs it and gets it sorted according to shipping method.
If they produce the shirts they’ll have a printed shirt for what it costs us to buy blanks.

[RICK STEFANICK]

I had to delete that post..lol

[mk162]

I've heard they can be hell to work for.  Both from people that work there and from online complaints.

Couple this industry with Amazon's "need to get it done wicked fast" and I think I'll steer clear.

[Prince Art]

Of course it will affect us. If Staples has to cut the size of their brick & mortar stores in half (they did here), and WalMart is trying to keep their footing against the Amazon threat, why wouldn't we feel it, too? If people can get what they want faster, cheaper, and more conveniently, they will. Shoot, I do, and I'm fairly "anti-corporate."

Cleveprint is right. They don't care about making money up front. They will float it until they figure out A) whether it will really work, and B) how to make it work profitably & predictably. And if they get to that 2nd stage, they will eat up more & more of certain types of print jobs.

Does that mean screen printing is going to disappear? No. And certain job will always be best handled locally. But it's going to a be smaller segment of total printing than it used to be.

And don't forget this: Who says Amazon can't screen print? Look at M&R's hybrid screen + DTG. That's part of the future. How hard will it really be to set up a single base w/ CTS & pre-reg? And maybe add a "screen only" color, like metallic, on the end? So Amazon uses to eat up DTG-only for their simpler, short-run jobs, but perhaps they'll then ramp up to offering hard-to-compete with pricing for larger orders, too. Logistically, they have the potential to be incredibly efficient.

(Side, @ Maxi: I agree about high-end Kornit machines, same situation as M&R's hybrid. However, as for "Fortunately for us the fast printers are still very expensive," I tend to disagree. I'm afraid it's the highly efficient, very expensive tech that only the giants can afford that may do us the most damage. It will make smaller runs profitable for them, and they'll be able to gobble up massive numbers of orders, on a national/global scale. If I could get into fast, efficient, high quality DTG for the same investment as screen printing, I think that would be the more profitable route, even as a local printer.)

Here's where I think local shops have a couple of lasting selling point: expertise, and relationship. Customers often want to talk with someone knowledgeable, who can tailor a solution to fit their specific needs. That requires listening, and expertise in the field. Many people don't want, or don't have the time, to educate themselves about all the different brand, style, & fabric types that are out there, & what printing will work best with those garments, and how we can turn this 4-color design into a 1-color print that looks good on 8 different shirt colors. (In-house graphic design can keep people coming to you for the same reasons. They need to talk about what they want, but they can't do it themselves.) And, many people specifically want to work with someone in their community. They value that connection.

I think to stay viable, printers are going to have emphasize & build on the personal side. And be ready to adopt new production models. Wherever we can adjust so that we also make the process easier, faster, & more convenient, we will almost certainly add to our longevity.

[mooseman]

the monster that kills screen printing will be from a machine that can decorate a tee shirt with dye evaporative or color modifying chemicals that will produce a soft hand image akin to discharge printing today. Additionally when this happens garment manufacturers will develop specific dye processes that focus the garment for decoration with the "DTG dye extraction technology".
Think about it...a tee shirt with a pre determined dye combination designed specifically to give up or retain color based on the application of catalist fluid delivered to the shirt much the same as an ink jet printer prints a photo on paper except color will be subtracted in measured amounts to develop an image. Ideally there would be no pre prep to the shirt as his would all be engineered in when the garment is produced. load it , shoot it, and cure it . DTG today is the pioneering attempt to change the 2000 year old process of silk screen printing.

Before you start laughing up your sleeve picture the telephone operator who had to plug a wire into a large switching board so you could talk to your neighbor and sitting on the counsole at her left is a $1000.00 I-Phone 8 that she could not imagine in here wildiest dreams...........................


when this happens "ask not for whom the bell tolls"........ and never say never
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DdFnHTTMQ
mooseman