Author Topic: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW  (Read 2438 times)

Offline Biverson

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600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« on: January 11, 2018, 01:23:23 PM »
Looking for some advice on a larger order I'm having to print up next week. 600 Black Shirts, 2-color front (3 if you include UB), and 1-color back. I've only had my auto since last July and only done a handful of 500+ orders. I've got through the others but not as efficiently as I would have liked. I'd like to get this one out as quick as possible. I've got an Anatol Volt 7/8 and Vastex Econored II I'm using. The thing is I haven' thad good luck with WoW, even if it's just 2 colors. I don't want to have to do 2 rotations on the press and don't like using the step-back feature. Quartz can get too hot, etc. I usually have problems with the color not being vibrant on the UB, or it picking up on the following screen and dulling the colors. Here's how I'm thinking of setting it up:
  • Head 1 - White UB on 150S
  • Head 2 - Flash
  • Head 5 - Orange (Trapping White UB) on 200 or 225S
  • Head 6 - Highlight White (with 2 pt gutter via SimpleSeps to account for butt reg with Orange) on 180S
  • Angles at 15 degrees, with minimal squeegee pressure for the last 2 heads.

From all the research I've done on this forum and elsewhere that sounds good, but then I worry about opacity. I'm using Union Inks Premium Cotton and Ultrasoft Orange. Any help, tips or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks!
Brett - Iverson Designs LLC
www.idoshirts.com


Offline blue moon

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 01:30:15 PM »
to print WOW you need to have inks that are designed for it. Additionally, the top colors have to be very thin (deposit) or they will mushroom out when you step on it with the next screen. You should be looking at 305 for the top colors that are not last.
So in this case, your orange should be on a 305. If you don't have one, a 280 will do. 230 might be too thick. HiWhite can go on any mesh as you will not be printing after it.

Which inks are you using for Orange? If it's not WOW ready, there might be an additive you can put in the ink to prevent build up.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline 3Deep

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 04:33:24 PM »
Great advice from Pierre, only other thing is you might need 70/90/70 sharp squeegee's for your top color and make sure the pallets are good and warm, which makes the ink flow better.  You should get a really  consistent print stroke all the way through with those electric heads, oh and I've found out if your under base is to thick, you'll have problems with build up printing WOW.
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Offline screenxpress

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 08:15:38 PM »
I'm a bit of a lightweight here, but will add this for WOW.

Once everything is in registration and you're printing, do not change any settings until you have printed at least 6 shirts as the colors won't settle in before that.

Update:
I do WOW with Union Ultrasofts and Union Bright Cotton White for UB.  Don't know about the "Premium White", but the Ultrasofts are designed for WOW.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 08:27:36 PM by screenxpress »
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Offline Biverson

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 08:39:47 PM »
Which inks are you using for Orange? If it's not WOW ready, there might be an additive you can put in the ink to prevent build up.

Thanks for the info. I'll be using some of Unions Ultrasoft Orange or like it. I usually get all Maxopake and then usencureable reducer and soft hand additive to make Ultrasofts when I need them as they're too thick straight from the bucket.

The highest I've got is 255 and could try that. All my squeegees are 70 durometer ATM and may order a couple 80 or 70/90/70 or equivalent.


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Brett - Iverson Designs LLC
www.idoshirts.com

Offline Biverson

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 08:41:07 PM »
Forgot to mention I've got a roller squeegee I can use after the flash to ensure the base is as smooth as possible.


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Brett - Iverson Designs LLC
www.idoshirts.com

Offline Maxie

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 12:11:54 AM »
Pierre wharf would you use to print the UB?
Would you single stroke?
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Offline fishman08

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 12:52:19 AM »
to print WOW you need to have inks that are designed for it. Additionally, the top colors have to be very thin (deposit) or they will mushroom out when you step on it with the next screen. You should be looking at 305 for the top colors that are not last.
So in this case, your orange should be on a 305. If you don't have one, a 280 will do. 230 might be too thick. HiWhite can go on any mesh as you will not be printing after it.

Which inks are you using for Orange? If it's not WOW ready, there might be an additive you can put in the ink to prevent build up.

pierre

Offline blue moon

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 07:30:42 AM »
Which inks are you using for Orange? If it's not WOW ready, there might be an additive you can put in the ink to prevent build up.

Thanks for the info. I'll be using some of Unions Ultrasoft Orange or like it. I usually get all Maxopake and then usencureable reducer and soft hand additive to make Ultrasofts when I need them as they're too thick straight from the bucket.

The highest I've got is 255 and could try that. All my squeegees are 70 durometer ATM and may order a couple 80 or 70/90/70 or equivalent.


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maxo is not WOW friendly and the additives you have will not fix that. Union makes a WOW additive for the maxo inks.
Ultrasoft should work. Not sure about the 255, it might. If it was me, I would order some higher mesh screens.
70 duro should be fine.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline blue moon

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 07:32:56 AM »
Pierre wharf would you use to print the UB?
Would you single stroke?

Synergy ink for ubase, single stroke for the spot colors. Some of our simulated process requires double stroke even though we try hard to avoid that. In some cases we'll burn two underbase screens in a row to eliminate double stroking. This has to do with our simulated process inks. They are very translucent and don't work well unless the underbase is super bright.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Colin

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 09:10:36 AM »
Good call on talking about double underbases Pierre.

Lots of shops will run this as the occasion calls for it.  Either printing as a Highlite white screen first then the normal base plate, or the base plate/flash/second base white (modified or not depending on design and circumstance) with a normal highlite white in its regular position.

I have a design coming up in a couple weeks, close to 7k pcs, and its 16 inches tall.  2 stroking the base would kill production rates.  We have a fairly bright red going down on top and it will look duller than wanted if I run a single stroke through my 225s base plate.  So I am running my base white, flashing, rolling smooth, and a modified base white that boosts the brightness where needed and acts as my highlite white.  Ran a sample this week, it looks great and runs fast.

Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now an Account Manager at Ryonet.

Online rusty

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 11:23:06 AM »
so, if you're running two underbases are you running in revolver mode? or do you have two flashes?
I am just getting wet on wet so I have lots of simple questions.

Offline blue moon

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 11:41:57 AM »
so, if you're running two underbases are you running in revolver mode? or do you have two flashes?
I am just getting wet on wet so I have lots of simple questions.

we run two underbases WOW and then flash. It is the same as two stroking, but prints faster.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Biverson

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2018, 10:36:45 PM »
Thanks everyone for your comments and help! Much appreciated. This job went off without a hitch. I wanted to update on how I did it. It was by no means a complex print. UB, color, highlight white front. 1 color back with 2 screens to increase production. I just felt I we need to start becoming more efficient in how we setup and cycle to cut down on flashes, etc.

  • 600 Black Shirts - P&C Core Cotton
  • 2-color front, 1-color back
  • UB White on 156 Saati Hitech from Spot Color. High tension mesh. Double stroke. Union Ink Premium Cotton White. We could have went single, but kept the 2nd in there as we were limited in speed due to our dryer
  • Flash - 2 seconds
  • Cool down then Roller Squeegee
  • Orange on a 230 Saati Hitech. Single Stroke. The orange wasn't an ultrasoft and I only had Union Maxopake on hand. I mixed 20% Synergy Magic and 5% reducer and never had a problem with the ink clearing or picking up on the next screen. I was pleasantly surprised by how smooth it ran, yet still had good body. Was very opaque too.
  • Highlight White on 156 Saati Hitech. Single Stroke. I was initially worried about opacity but could have definitely used a higher mesh.

We ran 200 shirts an hour which for us is great. We could have been faster if it wasn't for our dryer. Vastex Econored 2. I pushed it more than I have before but don't like to kick them out any faster than 30 seconds under the heat. I've setup almost all my jobs without a highlight white and just used the base and p/f/p for the highlight. Having a HL White does add more setup and reg time, but man, once it'd going without any flashback or revolutions it's so much better. I've usually only not done 3 screens to quote things out more affordably, but then there's the added time for the extra flash, and there's more ink on the garment. I'm going to start ensuring I account for a UB and HL white if needed to help with production speed, hand, and getting more acquainted with WOW. I can say me and my employee had a lot of fun kicking this out quicker than usual and having a what we thought was a nice end product for some giveaway shirts!
Brett - Iverson Designs LLC
www.idoshirts.com

Offline mimosatexas

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Re: 600 Piece order - Looking to do WoW
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2018, 11:20:34 PM »
Looks good.  Forgiving print too with none of the top white or orange touching!

One quick thing, and I may be completely wrong, but arent you supposed to rub the roller squeegee immediately after the flash vs after a cooldown?  Someone definitely correct me if I'm wrong (I don't use one).