Author Topic: Color in can vs on an underbase  (Read 818 times)

Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4561
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 01:01:40 PM »
Also on Wilflex PC system.  All spot color inks start at essentially max pc load.   Next, we will mix to the next richest pantone (1 down in the classic book pages) when going over white. 

This solves most of the matches, most of the time without big adjustments to the ratio of pigments.  We rarely get requests for true PMS matches, it seems very few designers have actual PMS books these days anyhow....instead it's typically more about getting a set of colors to read well together on the print.

Grey UB is a winner for us in many instances, especially with your darker shades and big time with mid-dark blues.   


Offline tonypep

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4720
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2018, 07:51:48 AM »
Keep in mind that, in order to be Pantone certified/licensed, the ink companies only need to match a certain quota of colors. Not the whole book. These formulas are made by humans, using the best methods available however they cannot possibly match what interdependant variables that occur in every shop. Mainly ink film thickness. Mesh, squeegee, etc. And yes, for large retailers, fashion brands, athletic and outdoor brands the printer is required to match colors on and off a UB when using plastisol. Often requiring different pigment loads and bases. By Summer, we should have a fully functional and reasonably accurate swatch system in place in the ink room (including a professional light viewing station) to preview sensitive colors, check for bleeding, and dischargeability for new fabrics, etc. By doing so prior to press production this will help minimize downtime and second guessing; therefore paying for itself in a short period of time.

Offline RStefanick

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1299
  • JESUS IS OUR SAVIOR
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2018, 08:44:19 PM »
This has been a great thread.

Offline pwalsh

  • !!!
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 09:27:29 AM »
one other factor that hasn't been addressed is the interference that the shirt color has on the "perceived" color of the printed ink. Here's a link to a great article from X-Rite on how our eyes perceive color and the impact of background color.   https://www.xrite.com/blog/color-perception-part-3
Peter G. Walsh - Vice President of Sales
The M&R Companies - Roselle, IL USA
Email:  [email protected]
Office 847-410-3445 / Cell 630-220-6591

Offline tonypep

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4720
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2018, 12:38:33 PM »
And then there is metamerization. Which is why super serious color people use a viewing box like the ones that Pantone offers. Allows you to view swatches under various light sources

Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4561
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2018, 01:14:43 PM »
I'd love to build a hooded box with different light sources and color temps.  For now we have the office painted about CG 4c and D50 lighting installed, essentially a big light box that we work in.  Expensive bulbs but great for the initial match.  We'll then take it into the shop light and outside if need be to confirm it's a good "average" read.

Offline tonypep

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4720
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2018, 01:31:45 PM »
I had one built at IBG............ probably upstairs gathering dust. Primarily used for checking dye lots using store light, daylight and incandescent light

Offline Brian Pletcher

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 03:37:57 PM »
Keep in mind that to high of a mesh can lighten the color as well. Go to a lower mesh to keep the color.

Don't think everything needs to be in a 305. I see all these threads about printing UB and color with high mesh and I don't understand that. just my thoughts.

Offline tonypep

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4720
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 07:23:16 PM »
Rare these days but............this prompts me to suggest an article to PW. Should take a few months but it just might pay a light bill. Teaser alert: Transparent/Translucent/Opaque/ink film thickness (theres about 20 variables there)
However it may only apply to a small few. Guess how many Hilfiger reds and blues we used to have and not cross-contaminate?
Okay 6......

Offline Colin

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 08:11:59 PM »
"Teaser alert: Transparent/Translucent/Opaque/ink film thickness (theres about 20 variables there)"

Are we just talking ink film, or are we also including ink viscocity/mesh type (thin thread/standard mesh)/ squeegee hardness/squeegee edge profile/eom on all mesh types/mesh counts/standard off the shelf ink opacity/mixing system opacity variables/blowing agents/wet on wet chemistry Vs. non wet on wet ink chemistry (fillers etc)/etc...?

I think there may be more than 20 :)

I would love to see an article on that btw!

Offline merchmonster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2018, 11:25:43 PM »
What my guys do

Get scrap shirt
Card white ink onto scrap with ink card
Flash the color with a heat gun
Card ink color onto white base
Tone as necessary

Some colors always get lighter on the base.royals and navy specifically.
Merch Monster Screen Printing Embroidery and DTG Direct To Garment Printing
Servicing Oakland CA and the Greater San Francisco Bay Area
http://www.merchmonster.net

Offline Colin

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 05:10:42 PM »
Rare these days but............this prompts me to suggest an article to PW. Should take a few months but it just might pay a light bill. Teaser alert: Transparent/Translucent/Opaque/ink film thickness (theres about 20 variables there)
However it may only apply to a small few. Guess how many Hilfiger reds and blues we used to have and not cross-contaminate?
Okay 6......

We may need to create an hour long training movie and put it up on youtube...    Talk about a Masters level class....

Offline Get Shirts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
Re: Color in can vs on an underbase
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 07:16:54 PM »
Keep in mind that to high of a mesh can lighten the color as well. Go to a lower mesh to keep the color.

Don't think everything needs to be in a 305. I see all these threads about printing UB and color with high mesh and I don't understand that. just my thoughts.

Printing your top colors on high mesh allows WOW printing, controls ink deposit, saves ink, etc...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk