Author Topic: Buying I Image STE on secondary market  (Read 1991 times)

Offline LuckyFlyinROUSH

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2018, 10:38:45 PM »
I'm salty/sour/pissed off that M&R ever had D2A in our machine. It caused over $10,000 in damage over 1 year.

GET THAT PIECE OF S##$ INK OUT OF YOUR MACHINE NOW. It doesn't matter how you care for your machine, how well you clean it. I'll say this time and time again. Our machine was used for 4 hours, 4 days a week, and was CLEAN. It's literally like FORD telling you to pour melted twizzlers into your cars oil and expecting the car to run fine. Sure it's going to run for a while, but hey once the motor quits working YOUR SOL, and FORD says it's YOUR fault, and YOU have to pay for it.

The machine does what it's supposed to, except for all its quirks. D2A is the devil.

T6 is fine, no issues. Call and have someone walk you through the changeover. Let them personally make the adjustments via teamviewer and log it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 10:41:37 PM by LuckyFlyinROUSH »
I spend too much money on equipment...


Offline Dottonedan

Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2018, 11:28:40 PM »
LOL  WOW.  I like your emphasis.

I'm with ya. If they or you could determine for sure, your issue had been due to the D2A ink, then you should have a good argument. Determining that tho, is difficult.
Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail [email protected] 615-821-7850

Offline Colin

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2018, 08:41:15 AM »
I still need to update my thread on blurry images - but I will chime in here a little.

We got the T6 put in our machine yesterday.  Our tech found that a negative pressure of -1.6 was best for our shop.  Which is realllly low apparently.

I would definitely have a tech help on getting the settings right for your shop.  These machines are very delicate and need to be BALANCED properly for your environment!
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now an Account Manager at Ryonet.

Offline LuckyFlyinROUSH

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2018, 08:58:59 AM »
Make sure your humidity is higher in the area with the ST. If you have a de-humidifier sitting next to or near the machine and less than 30% your asking for dry heads also. Our wash out booth is nearby so we always have a good humidity level. Screens are in their own room.
I spend too much money on equipment...

Offline Underbase37

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2018, 09:51:02 AM »
Lucky,

Did you see a difference in ink density when switching from D2 to T6 ?

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Offline Colin

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2018, 04:02:53 PM »
Not sure honestly....

But I did have a screen today where I missed 1-2% dots when separating..... on my 225s mesh @ 60 lpi - I overexposed to try and clip them.... yea they still sprayed out >.<

Murakami T9 with diazo..... 

So the dots/ink is dense enough for that.
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now an Account Manager at Ryonet.

Offline LuckyFlyinROUSH

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2018, 07:21:18 PM »
MMm...not so much density, as you notice opacity. T6 seems a little less opaque. Still seems to block light just fine though.
I spend too much money on equipment...

Offline blue moon

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2018, 10:26:11 PM »
Not sure honestly....

But I did have a screen today where I missed 1-2% dots when separating..... on my 225s mesh @ 60 lpi - I overexposed to try and clip them.... yea they still sprayed out >.<

Murakami T9 with diazo..... 

So the dots/ink is dense enough for that.
Is yhis the linearized dot? What lpi?
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline DannyGruninger

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2018, 12:48:41 AM »
Not sure honestly....

But I did have a screen today where I missed 1-2% dots when separating..... on my 225s mesh @ 60 lpi - I overexposed to try and clip them.... yea they still sprayed out >.<

Murakami T9 with diazo..... 

So the dots/ink is dense enough for that.
Is yhis the linearized dot? What lpi?

I will say anyone that can hold a 1-2% linearized dot is on a different level. I want to think we are good here with what we do and holding a true linearized 5% is something we strive for. 1-2% we will never get from what I’ve tested. Now that I’m doing some consulting I’ve been measuring more outputting devices and I’m seeing every dts or film printer out putting with huge gains. I went back and looked and at 50% the average dot is actually 69% and 10% is 18%. It’s a shame the industry can’t wrap their heads around linearized output as that would be an initial step to standardizing which imo this industry lacks.
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Offline Colin

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2018, 10:12:36 AM »
I will be one of the first wave of printers to jump in and say the dot curve is not perfect on any machine.  The iimage has a 7 picoliter droplet.  Thats tiny, but not tiny enough for higher lpi and the creation of fine - clean - dots.

After the new print head was installed I did notice my 50% dot @ 60 lpi was closer to 55% - 60% and I need to spend some time figuring where all the shift is and create a new curve.  The guy who looked at my machine and did the head install/recalibration and tracking down all my issues said it should be fine... Should have made him check it >.<

With that said, the 1-2% dots the machine gave me, are tiny as f*ck.  The ink was dense enough (T6) and on a 225s mesh with a 50% addition of exposure time - It still developed.  It was rough to develop it - but it was there.  Which tells you 1) great emulsion and proper dryness of the screen 2) the dot is dense enough to stop light. 

Is there an article anywhere about how to get (close to) a true lineralization of iimage halftone output?  I have had to eyeball everything in the past...
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now an Account Manager at Ryonet.

Offline Dottonedan

Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2018, 07:11:46 PM »
Quote
I will say anyone that can hold a 1-2% linearized dot is on a different level. I want to think we are good here with what we do and holding a true linearized 5% is something we strive for. 1-2% we will never get from what I’ve tested. Now that I’m doing some consulting I’ve been measuring more outputting devices and I’m seeing every dts or film printer out putting with huge gains. I went back and looked and at 50% the average dot is actually 69% and 10% is 18%. It’s a shame the industry can’t wrap their heads around linearized output as that would be an initial step to standardizing which imo this industry lacks.


To use the words of one of our past Presidents, "That depends on what your definition of IS is".

It's totally possible to hold 1% dot on press.  The question is, is that from a standard mesh and a standard LPI as we know it, or is that from a lower lpi and a high mesh?  Think 45lpi on a 350 mesh. Then yes, you can hold 1% dots. It has to fit.

You are doing very good at holding 5% dots in a linearized output on typical mesh and typical halftone LPI. It can get better.
Pierre for example, holds a 2% on typical mesh and he is linearized. Not sure how he sets everything else up but I'm proud of that guy. ;)

As for image output devices, they do not linearize their machines because it's futile until it gets to your one shop with yours one shops variables and then you can fine tune your output to fit your needs. Different environments play a role in output. If they did it in their production facility you would still get different results in your shop.

Also know, one setting doesn't work on all machines. A setting can get you closer, but not dead on for your machine in your shop. For example, I've seen in some shops (your I-Image setting), or at least it was named as yours. You must have given that to a few people you know. It works well for the most part much better than the standard 80/60) most come with at install. Works fantastic for you in your shop and your number of heads. Great results for you, but when people use that on their 1 Hd machine in their shop, they get different results. Different on the 2hd's and even different on the 3hd's because it's not your machine its coming from. At least it gets them going well and they can adjust as needed (if they ever do).  Most don't.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 07:28:18 PM by Dottonedan »
Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail [email protected] 615-821-7850

Offline blue moon

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Re: Buying I Image STE on secondary market
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2018, 10:47:58 PM »
Quote
I will say anyone that can hold a 1-2% linearized dot is on a different level. I want to think we are good here with what we do and holding a true linearized 5% is something we strive for. 1-2% we will never get from what I’ve tested. Now that I’m doing some consulting I’ve been measuring more outputting devices and I’m seeing every dts or film printer out putting with huge gains. I went back and looked and at 50% the average dot is actually 69% and 10% is 18%. It’s a shame the industry can’t wrap their heads around linearized output as that would be an initial step to standardizing which imo this industry lacks.


To use the words of one of our past Presidents, "That depends on what your definition of IS is".

It's totally possible to hold 1% dot on press.  The question is, is that from a standard mesh and a standard LPI as we know it, or is that from a lower lpi and a high mesh?  Think 45lpi on a 350 mesh. Then yes, you can hold 1% dots. It has to fit.

You are doing very good at holding 5% dots in a linearized output on typical mesh and typical halftone LPI. It can get better.
Pierre for example, holds a 2% on typical mesh and he is linearized. Not sure how he sets everything else up but I'm proud of that guy. ;)

As for image output devices, they do not linearize their machines because it's futile until it gets to your one shop with yours one shops variables and then you can fine tune your output to fit your needs. Different environments play a role in output. If they did it in their production facility you would still get different results in your shop.

Also know, one setting doesn't work on all machines. A setting can get you closer, but not dead on for your machine in your shop. For example, I've seen in some shops (your I-Image setting), or at least it was named as yours. You must have given that to a few people you know. It works well for the most part much better than the standard 80/60) most come with at install. Works fantastic for you in your shop and your number of heads. Great results for you, but when people use that on their 1 Hd machine in their shop, they get different results. Different on the 2hd's and even different on the 3hd's because it's not your machine its coming from. At least it gets them going well and they can adjust as needed (if they ever do).  Most don't.

I wish we held the 2% dot! Those days are long gone. . . We are happy with a 5% these days!

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!