Author Topic: Multi color prints with foil  (Read 819 times)

Offline avogel

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Multi color prints with foil
« on: April 19, 2018, 01:15:33 PM »
We are having trouble with some multi color prints that also have foil. We are using Virus adhesive, and Green Galaxy inks. This is all women's apparel on a wide range of garments. The designs that we can discharge (CCI base and GG pigments) or don't have to print a base are fine. Whenever we print a white base (Comet white) plus colors and adhesive the foil sticks to everything.

Any suggestions on how to fix this? We haven't done a lot of foil, so feel free to be elementary. Thanks!


Offline kirkwad

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 01:27:09 PM »
There is a Foil Resist additive that you add to the inks you don't want the foil to stick to. Rutland, ICC & others manufacture this additive.

Offline Colin

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 02:21:23 PM »
Yup - Foil Resist!

The reason inks like reg waterbase and discharge have little to zero stick is because the pigments/ink film are pushed INTO the garment and nothing/almost nothing is left on top of the fabric.

All inks will re-melt/get tacky at foil adhesion temps.  Thats why the sticking issues to other inks.
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now an Account Manager at Ryonet.

Offline avogel

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2018, 07:27:16 AM »
Got some resist on the way. Thanks!

Offline easyrider1340

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2018, 09:21:17 AM »
I had same problem with GG HSA inks.  I was using plastisol adhesive and GG around (border) adhesive.  Foil stuck to both GG and adhesive. 

Ryonet was no help at all. 

I gave up - it was a personal project / test. 


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Offline Colin

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2018, 10:51:46 AM »
What was their actual response to your issues?
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now an Account Manager at Ryonet.

Offline BP

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2018, 11:14:40 AM »
All the testing I have done in the past I never had a resist additive that worked !00%. It is best to stick to waterbase inks.
SHIRT HAPPENS!

Offline easyrider1340

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2018, 11:34:38 AM »
What was their actual response to your issues?
It’s been several months since my inquiry, so going from memory.  But something to the effect of...
“It shouldn’t stick to the Green Galaxy inks”

My response...
“I know.  Why is it sticking?”   

Their response....
“Maybe the GG is not cured....”.    No additional advice to resolve the issue. 

The foil adhered pretty well to the Wilflex HD Foil Adhesive.  But it also adhered pretty well to the GG.  I’ll see if I still have a pic of the condition.


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Offline Colin

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 11:42:16 AM »
sounds like an uneducated response....

Unless they have some silicone additive that they think is helping...

All inks (minus silicone ;)) when up on top of the fabric - will grab at least some of the foil.
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now an Account Manager at Ryonet.

Offline easyrider1340

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2018, 11:51:42 AM »
Here is my thread on another forum...

Water Based / Plastisol Foil Problems
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=2913&share_tid=798017&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Et-shirtforums%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D798017&share_type=t

I forgot that Ryonet did mention that the poly blend may be causing the issue with foil sticking to the GG.  Really???

Blue should be outline/border of the foil.  To get a decent print, I printed adhesive first (PFP), hand pressed the foil, then printed blue and black.  Then to dryer.  The dryer changed the chrome affect a little - but again these were for personal use and just 6 shirts.   

Here are pics...



Offline Colin

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 12:59:34 PM »
Did you flash in between your colors or was EVERYTHING wet-on-wet?

Mesh counts used will also play a roll in foil adhesion as ink deposit will vary and can leave ink on top of the garment.

Bottom line is any ink up on top of the fabric can grab ink :)
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now an Account Manager at Ryonet.

Offline easyrider1340

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2018, 01:50:18 PM »
Did you flash in between your colors or was EVERYTHING wet-on-wet?

Mesh counts used will also play a roll in foil adhesion as ink deposit will vary and can leave ink on top of the garment.

Bottom line is any ink up on top of the fabric can grab ink :)
I print on a manual so obviously there is some variation.  This job was all 156 screens. 

This was printed....
- adhesive (PFP)
- blue
- black
- dryer
- heat press foil

...foil stuck to everything

In my opinion, there was not too much black and blue ink laid down.  But ??

The other process question that came to mind is how do you print WB ink with plastisol foil adhesive and not over cure the adhesive in the dryer prior to heat pressing foil?


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Offline Colin

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2018, 02:00:03 PM »
With HSA inks there was ink still sitting on top of the fabric :)  That grabbed the foil.

Plastisol with waterbase is pretty much a non issue with a gas dryer.

If you are using an electric dryer, then you will have issues since they end up getting hotter than you want and you are fighting the removal of water from the tunnel.  Hence your comment about scorching the garment in your original post.

If I remember right GG has a silicon additive called slip stream, you can also add base/additives to thin out the inks so it penetrates the garment far better.
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now an Account Manager at Ryonet.

Offline ZooCity

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Re: Multi color prints with foil
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2018, 02:48:42 PM »
We do WB/DC for the non foil colors and either plastisol or HSA adhesive for the foil portion.  No issues save for our WB black tries to stick every now and then.  Solve for that is some penetrant in the black to drive it in a little more, silicone (Matsui Softener XA-1 here) can also help. 

Strange enough the WB/DC looks amazing after a heat tap, kind of a side benefit, lends a nice look/feel on the rack without prelaundering.

Anyways, I wouldn't imagine HSA inks are going to release from the foil and even with a resist additive it's questionable.  If you really want to do HSA for the colors look into a more pro line of inks like Matsui from RC Screen Shop (if in NW region) or Magna from Nazdar.   You'll get more knowledgeable tech support there too. 

There's a thread in here about how the plastisol resist additive isn't super effective either which is why we do the above.  i.e. if someone needed a full plasti print with foil we'd probably say no or find a way to do it in-line, on the press, which as you noted can change the foil look.