Author Topic: Base white 2 stroked (pressure settings)  (Read 3671 times)

Offline Dottonedan

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Re: Base white 2 stroked (pressure settings)
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2018, 01:26:02 PM »
I know I'll sound like an idiot but I must of missed it what is "RZ"?




Copied from google.
Rz[/size] is the average maximum peak to valley of five consecutive sampling lengths within the measuring length.[/color]
[/size]Basically, a measurement or appearance of the surface of your stencil.  Smooth or irregular. [/color]
Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail art@designsbydottone.com 615-821-7850


Offline Doug S

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Re: Base white 2 stroked (pressure settings)
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2018, 01:34:41 PM »
Gotcha,  Thanks Dan.
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Offline Dottonedan

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Re: Base white 2 stroked (pressure settings)
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2018, 10:02:03 PM »
What he is referencing - as I understand - is the receptive nature of all emulsions to being directly printed on.

Some emulsions the ink will wick like crazy going all over the place - others the ink will stay right where it dropped - think water proof Vs. non waterproof etc.. inkjet film.

Within the wet ink direct to screen machines/families - the different inks used all have different results when hitting the screen.  I personally saw more "dot gain" when we switched to t6 then with D2a.  I needed to recalibrate my machine.  The actual difference was up to 4%.

I initially said you were right, and you still are, but there is more to that. As described in that book I wrote about it,  the RZ value or what Danny was referring to is not just the emulsion "type" and characteristics, but also the way it's coated and dried or not dried.  Ideally, there should be at least enough emulsion on each mesh type to provide a smooth surface. Ideally, the costing technique for a high mesh should not be the same for the lower mesh. You are looking for minimum of 10% and a max of 25% EOM  and also looking for consistency as well. With that, comes a good RZ value.

Not everyone does this and a roughness, doesn't make it less durable. It just helps in other areas like forming a good gasket between garment and stencil. A good smooth surface also makes for a more visually appealing imaging onto the stencil from a DTS. I say visually appealing since a lesser quality stencil does little actual affect to the image quality of dots. Your stencils smoothness does not cause satellite dots or "scatter dots".

The impact of any wet ink in DTS on a screen for sim process at a typical lpi (55-65) on a typical high mesh (305)...is of little concern. Does it have any slight impact. I'd say yes, a minuscule affect. The surface would have to be extreme (and there are some out there), maybe 10% of all shops I had visited I'd guess were extreme. The more common affects is so little it's negative affects to wet ink are not visible to the naked eye and certainly not visible in wash out or print.

Smoother is better but not a requirement to burn good screens. I'd say medium to good is desired. You can burn screens and print jobs with very rough thinly coated screens (know as poor screen quality) where the mesh threads show up like waffle patterns...and still run an order. (I would not), but many do and just not as good.  Like running your DTS at it's fastest settings for production. For typical jobs, (bold lettering), run it at it's fasted speed. You can still do 55lpi at fastest settings, but it's not as good as running is a bit slower for your finer detailed jobs.

Changing a DTS ink type can affect the gain, thus needing to adjust your curves in your RIP. A mechanical Re-calibration of the device actually does nothing to improve gain on the stencil. The difference will be a result of the chemical makeup of the ink or, (the thickness) of said ink.
Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail art@designsbydottone.com 615-821-7850

Offline Colin

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Re: Base white 2 stroked (pressure settings)
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2018, 11:00:29 PM »
So, back when ink DTS was first introduced - there were more than a handful of emulsions that did not work with the system.

The ink would not adhere/dry/stay properly and there was running/pooling/lack of proper adhesion of the ink to expose a screen.

As I remember - and I could easily be incorrect - The emulsion manufacturers needed to adjust their formulas to assist with the grip of wet ink DTS.

Yes, peaks and valleys in the emulsion will make for an uneven wet ink image, but the emulsion still needs to accept the ink.  Not repel it like oil and water.

And like you said, the thicker the ink used - the sharper and more precise your printed image will be.


Just another point of view :)

Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now the Ink and Chemical Product Manager at Ryonet.

Offline Dottonedan

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Re: Base white 2 stroked (pressure settings)
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2018, 11:21:54 PM »
So, back when ink DTS was first introduced - there were more than a handful of emulsions that did not work with the system.

The ink would not adhere/dry/stay properly and there was running/pooling/lack of proper adhesion of the ink to expose a screen.

As I remember - and I could easily be incorrect - The emulsion manufacturers needed to adjust their formulas to assist with the grip of wet ink DTS.

Yes, peaks and valleys in the emulsion will make for an uneven wet ink image, but the emulsion still needs to accept the ink.  Not repel it like oil and water.

And like you said, the thicker the ink used - the sharper and more precise your printed image will be.


Just another point of view :)

Not to my knowledge. Never experienced any brands other than one brand that the DTS wet ink didn't work well with. That emulsion Co did modify their emulsion but were reluctant until they saw enough evidence that the WET ink and DTS was not going away and would make an impact on their business. Again tho, "other factors" may have been in play and were never known about or addressed at the time any of those other brands (multiple ) you are suggesting were having difficulty. Pooling/running/lack of proper adhesion are all part of environmental issues.
Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail art@designsbydottone.com 615-821-7850