Author Topic: Mesh for one screen white.  (Read 1618 times)

Offline Maxie

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Mesh for one screen white.
« on: January 05, 2019, 02:40:31 PM »
Up to now I've used Saati 110 80 for printing white on dark, double stroke, no flash.
We get a lot of orders for about 45  shirts and the result we get is not high end printing but acceptable.
I am considering changing the 110 to a S mesh (all our other meshes are S mesh)  but I'd like some recommendations for other options.
One advantage of the 110 80 is that it's tough and lasts a lot longer than the S meshes we use.
Maxie Garb.
T Max Designs.
Silk Screen Printers
www.tmax.co.il


Offline GaryG

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2019, 05:41:59 PM »
Hi Maxie,

I just recently wondered the same thing. I tried the 110s mesh, then the 110/80. Same specs on our Sportsman auto with 60/90/60 squeegee.
Squeegee pressure accordingly for the two different meshes trying to lay ink (Quick white) on top of tee with the s-mesh instead of driving into fabric. The 110/80 was more opaque. Possibly due to taller ink columns. I looked at Theoretical Ink Volume on the respective charts, and if remembering right, the 110/80 was slightly more. I would say it just comes down to each shop and their methods (trough, emulsion, coating, coating person or machine, ink, etc.). Have fun with this. You are a pro- just remember, all others being the equal - change only one variable at a time!

Offline mimosatexas

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2019, 09:16:39 PM »
If the art let's us we print one hit whites with 83/71 mesh from safari. It's a thin thread mesh with massive open area. Verticle squeegee, as low as the pressure will go and clear, no double stroke as it causes ghosting from over depositing of the ink. Pallets have to be warm, ink has to be warm, and it doesn't work on a lot of garments, but on something like a g2000 it's stupid nice looking for a one hit. You can still see the mesh impressions if you look closely.

Online Atownsend

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2019, 10:04:36 AM »
135/55 from NBC. High EOM, low pressure, short ink, max stroke speed. Still a little dependent on art, but you'd be surprised what you can do.

Offline Doug S

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2019, 10:17:08 AM »
If the art let's us we print one hit whites with 83/71 mesh from safari. It's a thin thread mesh with massive open area. Verticle squeegee, as low as the pressure will go and clear, no double stroke as it causes ghosting from over depositing of the ink. Pallets have to be warm, ink has to be warm, and it doesn't work on a lot of garments, but on something like a g2000 it's stupid nice looking for a one hit. You can still see the mesh impressions if you look closely.

I agree with the 83 mesh.  It's definitely a 1 hitter and you definitely don't want to stroke twice.  Even the 1 stroke through the 83 is almost too much.
It's not a job if you love doing it.

Offline 3Deep

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 10:51:41 AM »
Why is getting a one stroke white print so important, I've printed a long time and have always heard people chasing that one stroke white, I've never really got a one stroke white that has satisfied me print wise.  I'm using 135 s mesh and get onestrokes on color inks but still find the need to double stroke the white with a lot less print pressure.  We do print a lot of black shirts and comfort colors, but I will say I gotten a one stroke white on some light color shirts using the 135s mesh, so y'all that got this one stroke white nailed explain to me how your getting it and whats the benefit besides what I think I already know ( speed, nice thin base white, and not a bulletproof print)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 11:30:03 AM by 3Deep »
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Offline Nation03

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2019, 10:59:06 AM »
135S would probably be the closest. I dont have many of them because they're a little too delicate, even for S-Mesh. I do most of my white printing through 150-S just fine but I always P/F/P with one stroke each time.

Offline Sbrem

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2019, 11:46:47 AM »
years ago my old shop did a very large order, 100K+, and we used 4xx multifilament mesh with a bulletnosed squeegee. Worked great. Since, our heaviest mesh is 81SDE, basically an 81 S mesh. But like most, it's finer meshes PFP for a thinner hand.

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline Shanarchy

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2019, 11:50:32 AM »
We do most of our 1 color whites with one screen and send it around twice. 150/48 S mesh (180 for detailed stuff). Double stroke the underbase. Single stroke the top white. It doesn't flash on the second round so we the time we lose on 100 shirts is 10 minutes max.

Online Atownsend

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2019, 12:58:34 PM »
135S would probably be the closest. I dont have many of them because they're a little too delicate, even for S-Mesh. I do most of my white printing through 150-S just fine but I always P/F/P with one stroke each time.

The 135-S from Murakami has a thread diameter of 48 microns like the 150S. Given the lower TPI I'd imagine that they would be super fragile! We still use a lot of 150/48's, but I have found the 135/55 from NBC to be much more durable than the 150/48. Its pretty rare that we bust one. 50% open area like the 150/48 but deposits much more ink, and is less fragile. The 135/48 will deposit more than the 135/55, but not THAT much more... the trade off in durability is worth it to roll with 135/55 IMO... and you can get it in amber color for holding tight lines.

Offline Nation03

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 01:02:12 PM »
135S would probably be the closest. I dont have many of them because they're a little too delicate, even for S-Mesh. I do most of my white printing through 150-S just fine but I always P/F/P with one stroke each time.

The 135-S from Murakami has a thread diameter of 48 microns like the 150S. Given the lower TPI I'd imagine that they would be super fragile! We still use a lot of 150/48's, but I have found the 135/55 from NBC to be much more durable than the 150/48. Its pretty rare that we bust one. 50% open area like the 150/48 but deposits much more ink, and is less fragile. The 135/48 will deposit more than the 135/55, but not THAT much more... the trade off in durability is worth it to roll with 135/55 IMO... and you can get it in amber color for holding tight lines.

Nice, sounds good. I'm unfamiliar with the NBC. Can you recommend a supplier that sells them prestretched with decent tension?

Offline ABuffington

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 02:36:19 PM »
Al; here from Murakami, another mesh to try is LX mesh in the S mesh specs.  We have a unique LX thread for four of our S meshes that prints with better opacity than our S mesh which is already excellent.   For white plastisol it 'gives' during the print process to deposit a bit more ink with less pressure.  RZ values as are smoother with a mesh that has minimal mesh knuckle and can use even less squeegee pressure.  It's worth a look for an even better S mesh for one hit printing.  Available in LX80S (68% open area), LX135S (55% open area), LX150S (51%), LX180S(44%).  While open area may be similar in specs, low RZ value (smoothness of squeegee side surface), and a thread that transfers ink a bit better, the LX in a similar mesh count yields a brighter print.  For those using our S mesh I do recommend more angle than vertical orientation of the squeegee.  This allows for less squeegee pressure with a 75/95/75 and avoids a chopper style press from digging in and pulling hard on the mesh.  This and square corners on your squeegees is the main reason for mesh popping. 

Al
Alan Buffington
Murakami Screen USA  - Technical Support and Sales
www.murakamiscreen.com

Online Atownsend

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 05:27:02 PM »
135S would probably be the closest. I dont have many of them because they're a little too delicate, even for S-Mesh. I do most of my white printing through 150-S just fine but I always P/F/P with one stroke each time.

The 135-S from Murakami has a thread diameter of 48 microns like the 150S. Given the lower TPI I'd imagine that they would be super fragile! We still use a lot of 150/48's, but I have found the 135/55 from NBC to be much more durable than the 150/48. Its pretty rare that we bust one. 50% open area like the 150/48 but deposits much more ink, and is less fragile. The 135/48 will deposit more than the 135/55, but not THAT much more... the trade off in durability is worth it to roll with 135/55 IMO... and you can get it in amber color for holding tight lines.

Nice, sounds good. I'm unfamiliar with the NBC. Can you recommend a supplier that sells them prestretched with decent tension?

I'm pretty sure that they sell finished screens direct, but you'd have to check with them as we always buy rolls and pop it into newmans. Over a certain QTY most stretchers will probably use whatever mesh you want. Easy to drop ship a roll / half roll etc to a stretcher you trust and have them put them on screens. Spot color maybe? I would try to find someone close to you who is familiar with thin thread and see if you can develop a working relationship.

Offline zanegun08

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 06:42:33 PM »
Why is getting a one stroke white print so important, I've printed a long time and have always heard people chasing that one stroke white, I've never really got a one stroke white that has satisfied me print wise.

Not only this, but you'll spend more time chasing the unicorn than just throwing this on an auto and going around twice.

48 shirts, at a very reasonable 8 second index for a single operator takes ~7 minutes, so you could go around twice faster than trying to get a 1 hit white, have a better end product, and I think you'd be hard pressed to save 7 minutes by setting up another screen and all that goes with it for this small quantity.

1 screen white with a fast screen to screen to knock out these small 48 piece jobs is better than putting out a subpar product.  Put HSA in it and going around 3 times for a 21 minute print run to give out an even better quality than plastisol in my opinion.

I think even then someone on a manual trying to achieve a good "1 hit white" would take around the same time, and you'd have a subpar quality product by trying to cut corners.

Offline mimosatexas

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Re: Mesh for one screen white.
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2019, 08:56:18 PM »
I was way more interested in the one hit white when I was all manual, but still use what I learned then to print on the auto. Saving 10 minutes on some jobs is nice when the variables of the job let you get the same result as using a higher mesh and running it around twice. It isn't the norm for us, but it's a nice option. Definitely not a unicorn either, you just have to know what kind of job variables will let you do it.