Author Topic: New to Newmans  (Read 2053 times)

Offline Zelko-4-EVA

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2019, 03:30:49 PM »
I used them for 14 years, and I CAN build them perfectly.  Here is the issue....IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SPEND THE TIME RETENSIONING, THEN YOU HAVE A GLORIFIED STATIC!  SIMPLE AS THAT!

in the past 5 years we havent been able to keep an employee long enough to stretch and maintain our newmans... 

instead of bolt mesh we switched to panel mesh  - much faster to teach. 

we basically stretch them on the roller master and shelve them until the next day, retention the next day and reshelve. - repeat until they stop losing tension. 

after that they are treated like a glorified static that we dont have to reglue or send out to be restretched.

we have 50 25x36 M3, and 400 23x31 MZX, from all eras - some painted, some not. some black bolt, short bolt, long bolt, some ultralight some not...  it gets confusing to teach that some frames you have to aim for 5-10 newtons below your target tension before tightening the bolts and some you dont.  these ones you need to clean the bolt and reapply C5A lube and those you dont. these need washers and those dont.

in the end, i am okay with glorified statics that you can restretch in house without waiting, or deal with frame glue. 

i wish we could keep someone that knew how to take care of all these frames so we could use bolt mesh and save some money.



Offline tonypep

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2019, 04:13:55 PM »
Agreed to all of the above. At IBG I sold all of the older style roller frames. Why? Well, the technology on corner softening was not there yet and, if you had a clamshell Precision Oval and discharge ink in the mix well, recipie for disaster.
 Fast forward to JNJ where everything has been pre-engineered by a true visionary. (Will Booth)
 So, the roller frames which I had not been a fan of had become a necessity.  Making them and treatment is a bit of a craft and many do not want to go down that road. A good table is almost necessary.
 Flip side? Well if you are a tension concerned OP then if you go with statics , there are basically two options. Do it yourself or farm it out. There are two adhesive options FYI. And do not overlook freight costs if farming out re-stretching depending on location. Often this may cost more than the application.
The better re-stretchers will often will use an industry based rotary grinder for pre-treatnment. This removes old glue and provides a much better  adhesion.
Long story short I have done it different ways with succesfull results. As JC and others have mentioned the screen is a transfer mechanism.

Offline RICK STEFANICK

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2019, 02:58:01 PM »
So TP. If you were setting up your own operation today. All the costs are yours. What way would you go ..Statics Or Newmans. The real deal, Today your ordering screens. What are you going with??

Offline tonypep

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2019, 04:08:11 PM »
Hard question to answer. Depends on a lot of variables. Many older autos are not suited for rollers. And again, I would not go any other way without Shurlok panels and a good table. That is money. So many companies do not have the time or care to measure and re-stretch. I get that. That is why many go roller; re-sell and revert to statics. It is obviously a point of view. Some just require a vessel to throw ink in. Others not so much.
I poke around here with a local company here where they coat statics one hand on the bathroom floor. At least one eyebrow raised!
Guess what? Quality of prints are excellent with very minimal misprints. All that said, if the market is fine art reproduction, then I would not go that way.
The answer to the question is I don't know but I will figure it out!
best tp

Offline RICK STEFANICK

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2019, 07:41:16 PM »
Ok, The question is how many of ya'all really use both ?

Online balloonguy

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2019, 10:37:47 PM »
Ok, The question is how many of ya'all really use both ?
I have about 40 newmans  and 60 or so statics. I use statics for most of my day to day 1 & 2 color jobs.  I use the newmans for 4cp and high detail work. I rarely get art that requires the additional effort though. I probably use less than 10 newmans a month.
I did just get 30 or so ez frames and a stretcher that goes with it. I need panels and have to figure them out.
When you dig grave will you make it shallow so that I can feel the rain?

Offline Doug S

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2019, 08:11:29 AM »
Here we run about 60/40 shurlocs to newmans. 
It's not a job if you love doing it.

Offline 3Deep

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2019, 11:07:22 AM »
We have now about 20 rollers and I still to this day can't really get the hang of doing a very good roller with mesh, bought a bunch of rollers many years ago from a shop going out of biz.  Back then I thought they were root to poot cuz we had tons of wood frames and those rollers could be tension like crazy, little did I know I was not getting the mesh square and corner soften LOL, so moire was a friend :o.  Now we have just about all aluminum frames still a few wood and those last rollers.  Rollers to me even when they were meshed right a and high tension were still messy trying to coat them because of those soft corners emulsion build up and drip, give me a nice tension static and I'm good to go, rollers are for those that really get into screen mesh and have the patience to work with then the right way. 8)
Life is like Kool-Aid, gotta add sugar/hardwork to make it sweet!!

Offline Prince Art

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2019, 12:08:40 PM »
I still say in a 1-man shop, it's more about what is best for your overall workflow, not about what screen is the "best" choice in a technical or theoretical sense, since either option can produce good results that will keep customers happy. Can properly used & maintained Newmans produce great results? Yes. But do they require more labor than simply ordering statics? Yes. And when you've got one person doing every task in the operation, finding ways to keep the workload down is important. Statics will do that - and they won't be as heavy for manual printing, and won't require extra real estate for a stretching table & tools, which can matter in a small shop. And I think that's relevent to the OP's situation. (...Not that I'd suggest the thread has strayed from that part of the equation or anything...  ;) :-X)
Nice guys laugh last.

Online gotshirtz001

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2019, 04:34:02 PM »
I am into the lively discussion; lots of great perspectives.


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Online DonR

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2019, 05:44:45 PM »
We run about 180 Newmans. More than we really need but what we do is check the tension after each reclaim. If they are under 22 we put them on the side until they can be re-stretched. We re-stretch when things are slow. It takes us about 15 minutes each to take tape off, re-stretch, tape, and label.

I also have lots of statics that we are not using. If anyone wants them I would let them go for $5 each.

Offline Atownsend

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Re: New to Newmans
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2019, 08:15:17 PM »
I have always disliked the semi permanent tape thing with the roller frames. Really I got started by refurbishing batch after batch after batch since i bootstrapped this thing. That last thing I ever wanted to do was put tape on it and have to repeat the stripper / wire wheel process again. They just get too nasty with the hardcore tapes combined with a few years of reclaim negligence. We just use the inexpensive plastic mesh protectors from jessup.  http://www.screenanddigitalsupply.com/store/1-6-orange-roller-rap-fabric-protector.html

We just tape them like you would a static with the uline packing tape post exposure. Seems annoying to reapply a semi permanent tape after a re stretch. We just pop off the mesh protectors and turn the roller on the side that has lower tension & the least amount of rotation. Rarely do we need to adjust more than one side on a reten.. you're good +/- 2n in either direction so we loosen two bolts, reten that side and torque the bolts. Used a roller master for 5 yrs, but for me the shurloc table is better if you have the one that spins around. Usually makes a flat frame, but if not you can easily flip it and use the magnesium wrench to flatten in about 15-30 seconds. We reten @ 20-22N and aim for 26-28N for all of our thin thread meshes.

Whoever is doing the stretching or retens must have really intense focus and a bit of common sense. If you space out for long and go into robot mode, you can quickly run into issues.  Attention and focus is required to build them right. I did manage to one of my stoner reclaim guys to stretch and reten.. but it took a period of months and many popped screens / cursing to get there.