Author Topic: warped tri loc pallet  (Read 431 times)

Offline Rockers

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warped tri loc pallet
« on: April 13, 2019, 09:48:06 PM »
We are having issues setting up jobs on our auto now for quite a while. Starting investigating and the last thing I expected was to find issues with our tri loc pallet. There seems to be some problem with the screens making full contact with the rear stop block and with the front stop block too.
Not always but often I can see a visible gap at the front stop block and at the rear one I can put a very thin shim between stop block and roller frame knuckle.
I checked the tri loc pallet for flatness, turns out it`s 2 mm higher at the front compared to the back of it.And it`s left hand side is higher then the right hand side of the pallet. Now I`m not sure if 2 mm make much of a difference when it comes to setting up jobs and registration of screens but somehow this does not feel right to me.
My M&R tech told me he never heard of anyone replacing the stop blocks on the tri loc, cause that`s a thought I`m playing with. As a matter of fact he said as well that there is no way that the pallet would be able to warp at all. Anyway, if replacing the stop blocks will help good if not then I might have to consider buying a new tri loc pallet-how annoying after just 7 years with it.


Offline Dottonedan

Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2019, 05:50:23 PM »
My guess is that it's not your Stop blocks, or your Tri-Loc pallet, but something else, such as something causing your frames to be contorted or something.

You have a DTS correct?  Try taking one frame on press, that is clearly showing an issue, (Measure the distance of the issue) and the document the location of that block or blocks. Then take that same screen back onto the DTS. I assume you have Tr-Loc or something similar on that. I assume.

If the measurements are very similar to almost exact on both areas (Press and DTS). Then it should be registering properly (as it relates to the screen).
The only way the tri-Loc would be higher/lower/closer would be if it were dropped hard, thrown into a brick wall, or pounded with a hammer or something. If it was good last year, it should be good this year.  So if it was good last year, and you haven't dropped it/thrown it, then your issues is something outside of the Tri-Loc.
There have been cases where a press operator has spun the press around unintentionally, smashing into a half positioned Tri-loc. This then, bent up the whole print head and Tri-Loc.  They thrashed both. So I've heard anyways.

Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail [email protected] 615-821-7850

Offline Rockers

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Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2019, 09:13:15 PM »
My guess is that it's not your Stop blocks, or your Tri-Loc pallet, but something else, such as something causing your frames to be contorted or something.

You have a DTS correct?  Try taking one frame on press, that is clearly showing an issue, (Measure the distance of the issue) and the document the location of that block or blocks. Then take that same screen back onto the DTS. I assume you have Tr-Loc or something similar on that. I assume.

If the measurements are very similar to almost exact on both areas (Press and DTS). Then it should be registering properly (as it relates to the screen).
The only way the tri-Loc would be higher/lower/closer would be if it were dropped hard, thrown into a brick wall, or pounded with a hammer or something. If it was good last year, it should be good this year.  So if it was good last year, and you haven't dropped it/thrown it, then your issues is something outside of the Tri-Loc.
There have been cases where a press operator has spun the press around unintentionally, smashing into a half positioned Tri-loc. This then, bent up the whole print head and Tri-Loc.  They thrashed both. So I've heard anyways.
I appreciate the input, but fact is putting a 40" level from front to back across the tri loc pallet tells a different story.

Offline Dottonedan

Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2019, 11:42:55 PM »
I really can't tell anything from that pic. Like what is that? Your level I suppose. But from the pick the gap looks even across. (in the pic). Are you setting the 40" level across the blocks and saying that one is higher by 2 mm?  If so, then no worries. That's a little lover 1/16"  and yes, I can see that happening. Gluing, mounting, drilling a hole higher than the one on the other end. But that's not important. The question would be, (do all three, make the needed contact) on the frames?  If so, then no worries.

You mentioned they did not (on some). This seems more like a frame issue.  A tad Higher or lower doesn't matter. If one were to be fatter, or moved in closed to the frame and not mounted properly then I can see an issue with reg. but that's not what you have described.

If it was good last year, it's gonna be good this year (unless, something happened to it).
Give the measuring a try and compare to what it is in your DTS. You may find it interesting.
Anyone ever had a block o the Tri-Loc move?  Up, Down, sideways? I don't know how they mount them, but I suspect the are welded.
Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail [email protected] 615-821-7850

Offline Doug S

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Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 10:13:25 AM »
I had a similar problem but found that my rollers weren't completely square.  When I put the roller frame in to the frame holder I noticed that one corner would try to pull away from one of the stops.  Once I fixed the non-square issue the problem went away.
It's not a job if you love doing it.

Offline tonypep

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Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 12:41:44 PM »
And there you go. Frames need to be perfectly level and perfectly square for a dts/trilock system to work efficiently. It usually not the trilock platen. Took me quite a while to figure that out. I can say that it is not a plug in and go without due dilligence on the front side.
One of most enlightening and obvious advise that I have been given is to only change one variable at a time. Then make good observations and reasonable deductions.
Or you can put ink in the screens and see how it goes! Not a dig at all this works for many.
Best to all tp

Offline 3Deep

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Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 01:24:22 PM »
Out of the 20 or so rollers we have I have one that I know for sure is out of square and there is no way of getting it back in square, so I marked it as a one color only frame when in use.  I don't have any of this fancy DTS or tri locks, but it seems that everything must be 99.99% right before it all works great which your still having some of the same issue we've had already, that most of you are trying hard to avoid in the first place ;)
Life is like Kool-Aid, gotta add sugar/hardwork to make it sweet!!

Offline CBCB

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Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 02:18:22 PM »
Yay I get to chime in on this. When I worked in industrial graphics I learned that if the roller isn’t square that the clamps will make it square. But that means the mesh is now warped!! Heck, even the vacuum is enough pressure to pull it down on the glass and warp it.

I have also started noticing this with micros on my ROQ. If I adjust them while the clamps are on it is twisting the frame, which can cause reg issues. Releasing the clamp and putting it back on shows the screen moving.
Same effect with a twisted roller.

I found the twisting happened when my weft/waft were uneven tension. Registering a triangle within a triangle is very difficult if you have uneven tension between frames, or if the frames are twisted at all.


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Online RICK STEFANICK

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Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 02:36:46 PM »
I would order some brand new statics and I think your problem will disappear.

Offline Zelko-4-EVA

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Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 07:18:16 AM »
I really can't tell anything from that pic. Like what is that? Your level I suppose. But from the pick the gap looks even across. (in the pic). Are you setting the 40" level across the blocks and saying that one is higher by 2 mm?  If so, then no worries. That's a little lover 1/16"  and yes, I can see that happening. Gluing, mounting, drilling a hole higher than the one on the other end. But that's not important. The question would be, (do all three, make the needed contact) on the frames?  If so, then no worries.

You mentioned they did not (on some). This seems more like a frame issue.  A tad Higher or lower doesn't matter. If one were to be fatter, or moved in closed to the frame and not mounted properly then I can see an issue with reg. but that's not what you have described.

If it was good last year, it's gonna be good this year (unless, something happened to it).
Give the measuring a try and compare to what it is in your DTS. You may find it interesting.
Anyone ever had a block o the Tri-Loc move?  Up, Down, sideways? I don't know how they mount them, but I suspect the are welded.

i had to replace a stop block on one of our tri loc pallets - brass shear pins and a plastic screw hold the block to the pallet.  it wasnt difficult to replace. the kit comes with a block, pins, screw and locktite for the shear pins.

Item #8150012-REPAIR-KIT

unless the pallet was dropped or used incorrectly i dont know how a thick sheet of aluminum could warp with normal use.   i think our stop block broke due to an overzealous press operator (its always user error)...

Offline Lizard

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Re: warped tri loc pallet
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 11:31:14 PM »
One of our Tri-Loc pallets was damaged/bent so here is how to fix it.  Go to Lowe's and get some metric washers (I think it is 5mm size).  Remove the stop blocks and install the washers between the pallet and the stop blocks.  This is also a big problem on the Challenger 3's with individual off contact.  Call me and I can send you some pictures.
Toby
 Shirt Lizard Charlotte, NC 704-521-5225