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screen printing => Show Your Stuff => Topic started by: Screened Gear on January 09, 2013, 05:51:21 PM

Title: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: Screened Gear on January 09, 2013, 05:51:21 PM
3 color discharge print on Gildan 2000. Wet on wet, All CCI bases and pigments. (colors not Pantones all custom mixes that I have been working on for many hours) I love the wrinkled photo. It really shows the soft feel you get with Discharge.

I think I am finally getting this stuff. I have gone from no discharge to about 50-75 percent of my jobs having some sort of discharge in the last 3 months.

Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: ebscreen on January 09, 2013, 06:20:38 PM
Nice job man. And for an offset press company if I'm not mistaken?
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: Screened Gear on January 09, 2013, 06:25:40 PM
Nice job man. And for an offset press company if I'm not mistaken?

Its a local offset printer. They just but Heidelberg on the back of their shirts because they use that brand of press.

This shirt was soaked in very hot water for over an hour and then washed hard. I was trying to make sure the colors would not dull or come off. I can't see anyone putting it through what I did. Still looks great.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: jsheridan on January 09, 2013, 06:35:58 PM
Prints look great bro! Just the way Discharge should look  8)

I was trying to make sure the colors would not dull or come off.

Get some binder and it will never be a problem. Then you can play with pigment overload and get some reds and blues to explode off the shirt.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: Screened Gear on January 09, 2013, 06:41:30 PM

Get some binder and it will never be a problem. Then you can play with pigment overload and get some reds and blues to explode off the shirt.



The red is a pigment overload. I learned that from you. I used some Fix'en from Matsui. I may have used to much. How much do you use? I did 3 percent.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: jsheridan on January 09, 2013, 06:50:20 PM
same, 3-4%.. it does have a pot life so make a 'parent' gallon mix then pour off what you need to print and add binder and activator to that cup.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: Screened Gear on January 09, 2013, 06:57:30 PM
good to know. Would water or extender take away from the pigment overload? I know sounds like a dumb question. I figure adding extender or water will give you more penetration and fully soak the top fibers so it would help with color.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: JBLUE on January 09, 2013, 07:32:09 PM
Nice print Jon. You gonna make it out next week?
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: ZooCity on January 09, 2013, 08:43:41 PM
Looks tight, especially for a G2000.  I've had much better luck discharging the ring or "soft" spun cotton than the carded. 

If I'm following you all on this conversation- you guys are overloading with pig and then balancing it out with fixer to prevent crocking issues/ensure proper cure?

^that's what I've been leaning toward.  Using this method with PCs for those colors I just can't get out of RFUs or just boosting the RFUs with PCs or some combo thereof.  A bright, basic red, like 185c, is a tough one with RFUs.  You can get a real nice Red blue shade and a real nice warm red ys but that classic, bright, basic red is hard. 
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: Screened Gear on January 09, 2013, 09:08:04 PM
Nice print Jon. You gonna make it out next week?
really wish I could make it out.  just not a good time with the new baby. I shouldnt say the new baby I should say the baby bills.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: jsheridan on January 09, 2013, 09:33:33 PM
good to know. Would water or extender take away from the pigment overload? I know sounds like a dumb question. I figure adding extender or water will give you more penetration and fully soak the top fibers so it would help with color.

The thinner the ink, the better penetration into the fibers. Use the extender to thin it out, water dries out to quick and leaves a sludgy mess behind that tends to clog the screen.

Most reds that I use, Jantex inks, are very thin, almost water as is. I like to step up to a 200-270 mesh as the ink will run through the image area and make all kinds of a mess on a 160.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: screenxpress on January 09, 2013, 11:41:49 PM
Can someone elaborate a bit on -

1) Pigment overload

2) Crocking

3) Binder

TIA
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: mk162 on January 10, 2013, 12:45:01 AM
We used to do a ton of work for H-berg.  Around the turn of the century though things really started to shift with them and our contacts there were mostly canned.  It's amazing how consolidated that industry is becoming.

Some of the few contacts we have left there though said that somehow the cockroaches have managed to survive.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: Screened Gear on January 10, 2013, 01:32:27 AM
Can someone elaborate a bit on -

1) Pigment overload

2) Crocking

3) Binder

TIA


I will try to field these.

1) Pigment overload: This is when you use more than 10 percent pigment to base. I have used up to 15 percent.

2) Crocking: Got this off the internet, I'm lazy. Definition: Crocking occurs when excess dye rubs off of one dry fabric onto another dry fabric. Crocking is usually more of a problem with dark and vivid colors.
Bleeding is a similar problem, but occurs when dyes transfer from one fabric to another when fabrics are wet.

3) Binder: This is the glue that makes the pigment load stay on the fabric. Its also called fixer. Many bases have binder in them but not enough or not enough for Pigment over loads.

I have all of 3 months of real Waterbase experience (did testing for 2 years when time allowed) so I hope someone (brandon, tony or John) will chime in to expand on this. Waterbase is not as easy as some say. Its like Photoshop you can use the program for 10 years and only understand about 10 percent of its capabilities.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: tonypep on January 10, 2013, 10:07:06 AM
Many companies interchange the terms base and binder. For us laymen they are one in the same although technically  yes bases contain binding agents usually latex in  foundation. Crockfastness is relatable to cure. There are crockmeters that can accurately measure this. I am different from many as I only require a bit of water now and then as an additive and I have used every manufactures products. The additives are confusing and unnecessary. I believe many use them out of lack of education (Believe me I do not mean to offend, this is aimed at the manufacturers and distributors whom often are not trained in application of these products)
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: tonypep on January 10, 2013, 11:36:23 AM
Oh BTW nice job on that print. You should never have to overload pigment ( at least I never have) sometimes to much activator can blow out a color tricking you into believing you need more pigment.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: Screened Gear on January 10, 2013, 12:43:46 PM
Oh BTW nice job on that print. You should never have to overload pigment ( at least I never have) sometimes to much activator can blow out a color tricking you into believing you need more pigment.

I used 3 percent Activator on this one. I think I have to bump that up a little. I had some reject shirts where the color was not as bright and a little splotchy. Could have been caused by not enough pressure since these were printed manually. This was the first time I got a good red with the CCI pigments (not that I was trying for a long time) It wasn't that hard. I overloaded it to test that and it did help with the deepness of the print. I would like to know what the Chemist at CCI would say is the max pigment load for their bases. Well I have to get back to printing. I have 3 more discharge jobs this week to do. I am making a strong effect to do discharge on as many jobs as I can this year. Its an education and have helped with me being burned out on working latley.
Title: Re: American Flag made in the USA - by me
Post by: ebscreen on January 10, 2013, 12:53:12 PM
I would like to know what the Chemist at CCI would say is the max pigment load for their bases.

Not CCI, but Rutland states 13%.