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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Rockers on May 28, 2017, 07:39:59 PM

Title: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Rockers on May 28, 2017, 07:39:59 PM
Any of the fine ladies and gentleman here have any experience with the Exile FreeStyler  CTS? At the price they offer I can see us pulling the trigger on one of those. Don`t see my wife agreeing to purchase any of the M&R units not even the smallest one:( But at $15,000 for the FreeStyler who can say no. Any of you have seen it in action in Long Beach or any other trade show recently, or even better maybe someone here is a proud owner of this unit?
Would need pros and cons.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: SI on May 29, 2017, 01:00:49 PM
your resale value, will be next to nothing if you decide to buy one.  Speed will be your main issue with this machine, I almost bought one and then found a used Douthit for close to the same price.  I would check the used market, you can probably get a used M&R or other higher end machine for close to the same price
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Maxie on May 30, 2017, 12:09:11 AM
I also got exited when I saw he price, really affordable.
There were two at Long Beach, Lawson had one that was printing with bands, they said is was because of the conditions in the hall.
Exile had one (the heads are identical, made in Italy with a HP head) but couldn't demonstrate it, they had no screens.
I was in England and went to the Exile office in Luton for a demo.
I decided not to get one, not happy with:
Quality of print, if you do mostly simple spot printing it's ok, not good for high end Seperatlons.
Speed, it's slow, once again ok if you have a small shop.
Cost of printing, high compared to other systems, you have to buy the HP head/cartridge.
I'll carry on with film until I can afford a wax printer.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: willy35 on May 30, 2017, 02:46:52 AM
I saw it. very plastic feel, only 1 small desktop printer HP head and only 1 channel is used, and print per screen given to me was really high.
You can not have LPI greater than 65 LPI.

Not for me, On the other side my business partner was totally impressed with it, I mocked him up  ;D

I prefer the M&R entry level, it is not the same league, it is 2x more expansive, but the print speed is not the same as well, construction is more industrial, and you have this solid feel...



Here is my video link

https://youtu.be/R1YQprMQc_M
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Rockers on May 30, 2017, 06:27:10 PM
I saw it. very plastic feel, only 1 small desktop printer HP head and only 1 channel is used, and print per screen given to me was really high.
You can not have LPI greater than 65 LPI.

Not for me, On the other side my business partner was totally impressed with it, I mocked him up  ;D

I prefer the M&R entry level, it is not the same league, it is 2x more expansive, but the print speed is not the same as well, construction is more industrial, and you have this solid feel...



Here is my video link

https://youtu.be/R1YQprMQc_M
So I`ve been in contact now with Phil@ Exile. He gave me the contact details of several shops that run that unit. Some of them doing up to 50 screens a day with it so it can`t be that slow. With the 4 printheads it can do an A3 image in around 3 minutes. For halftone work it`s recommended to use only 2 heads max which will of course make the process slower. Spending almost $30,000 on an i-Image is out of question right now and we don`t do 50 screens a day.Closer to 15-20. Still undecided but I`m leaning towards the purchase of the FreeStyler. If things go crazy and we get into the 50 + screens / day range then I`m sure we can as well afford to buy an i-Image.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Nation03 on May 30, 2017, 07:06:45 PM
Any estimate on what the cost per screen is with the ink it uses? It'll be a while before we need to do 50 screens in a day, but I still want to get away from film sooner then later.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Rockers on May 30, 2017, 07:40:30 PM
Any estimate on what the cost per screen is with the ink it uses? It'll be a while before we need to do 50 screens in a day, but I still want to get away from film sooner then later.
The cartridges are $80/pc and can do 100-120 average sized screens. That`s what I was told
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Dottonedan on May 30, 2017, 09:24:35 PM

Ya gotta admit tho, even at that slow speed, it's faster than some film printers.

There is a machine that fits each customer.   Sure, the price of ink is very high, and it prints slow, but like he said, he's not going thru 50 screens a day. Maybe this is a good fit for where he's at right now. Any DTS is a good DTS over film.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Prince Art on May 30, 2017, 11:56:57 PM
I'll add my two cents to say that if it's of acceptable build quality (i.e., you won't have to fix it very often), and it produces sufficient quality, and the cost is friendly enough, there's a place for it. It doesn't have to have the best feature set available; if it has the right mix of features, compromise, and price, it will be beneficial to a certain niche within the industry. I say this as someone with a tiny shop who is keeping a close eye on CTS, even though the price is at this point too high for me. There's no way I need the same throughput of the shops who currently utilize these machines. But a high screen production rate isn't the only benefit to CTS; of great interest to me is the elimination of innocuous tasks - it streamlines shop operation as a whole. You could give me a CTS with output times that only match the time it takes to print AND TAPE UP films, and I'd still be gaining time & quality in many areas, and pushing the need for another employee farther down the road.  Now improve my screen production rates even just a little, and do it at a good price, and you've really got my attention. I'm intrigued by the FreeStyler, hope to learn more about it (good or bad), and hope more options come to market with small & medium-sized shops in mind.

Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Maxie on May 31, 2017, 12:36:22 AM
One advantage of the HP cartridge is that the cartridge is also the head so you don't have problems with blocked heads, etc.
I worked out that the cost of printing a screen is the same as the cost of film.
I am doing more Sep's. CYMK and  simulated and what I saw was that this printer does not print a good dot, especially up to 5 and 95% plus.      If you print mainly spot and are happy with dots from 10 to 90%
It's a good machine.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Dottonedan on May 31, 2017, 12:55:38 AM
and for that matter, I can't get my Epson 1430 to print a good 5% dot.    I am not loving that thing. And the ink cartridges,  Pfft. They must be designed intentionally to keep you buying, but that's another story aside from DTS.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Nation03 on May 31, 2017, 07:15:33 AM
I'll add my two cents to say that if it's of acceptable build quality (i.e., you won't have to fix it very often), and it produces sufficient quality, and the cost is friendly enough, there's a place for it. It doesn't have to have the best feature set available; if it has the right mix of features, compromise, and price, it will be beneficial to a certain niche within the industry. I say this as someone with a tiny shop who is keeping a close eye on CTS, even though the price is at this point too high for me. There's no way I need the same throughput of the shops who currently utilize these machines. But a high screen production rate isn't the only benefit to CTS; of great interest to me is the elimination of innocuous tasks - it streamlines shop operation as a whole. You could give me a CTS with output times that only match the time it takes to print AND TAPE UP films, and I'd still be gaining time & quality in many areas, and pushing the need for another employee farther down the road.  Now improve my screen production rates even just a little, and do it at a good price, and you've really got my attention. I'm intrigued by the FreeStyler, hope to learn more about it (good or bad), and hope more options come to market with small & medium-sized shops in mind.

I agree 100%. I'd like to see more budget friendly CTS machines for the smaller shops. I'm going nuts storing and organizing the film right now and I'm extremely small. Even if it's at around $1 per screen, that isn't bad compared to the headaches it will free up. But if I'm spending $30k+ on something, it's going to be a newer auto before it's CTS.

And Dan, I'm with you on the 1430. Mine has been a nightmare since day one. Refilling the carts has turned into an hour long process trying to get them to reset. Not sure if my chips are just shot or if it's a conspiracy on Epson's part. 
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: mk162 on May 31, 2017, 10:30:32 AM
Even when we used film, we didn't store it.  It didn't make sense with the amount film costs and the amount of time to file and pull from those files.

Not to mention the space.

We filed them back when we used a stat camera.  It was such a bigger process then.  When we switched to the 3000 and then the 4800 it just made sense to print new film, unless you rerun the job all the time.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Colin on May 31, 2017, 10:56:20 AM
So,here is another angle on the direct to screen equation:

How fast are your setups right now?

Will a tri-lock type system give you noticeable improvements?

Will those improvements in set up speed actually create more revenue for you?
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Doug S on May 31, 2017, 11:17:34 AM
Absolutely faster.  I can print atleast a 3rd more shirts in one day on a 6 or 7 setup day with cts then I could with film because of the decreased setup time.  Setup is much faster with the triloc and dts.  Not to mention, I can count on one hand how many pin holes I've had in the last 6 months. 
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: brandon on May 31, 2017, 11:54:03 AM
Absolutely faster.  I can print atleast a 3rd more shirts in one day on a 6 or 7 setup day with cts then I could with film because of the decreased setup time.  Setup is much faster with the triloc and dts.  Not to mention, I can count on one hand how many pin holes I've had in the last 6 months.

This
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Prince Art on May 31, 2017, 12:35:06 PM
So,here is another angle on the direct to screen equation:

How fast are your setups right now?

Will a tri-lock type system give you noticeable improvements?

Will those improvements in set up speed actually create more revenue for you?

Exactly. This is part of what I was trying to get at - a CTS machine could actually print slower than our film printer, yield no better quality, and yet the time it would save in this area and others would be a significant gain. Another side benefit: space saved in the screen room by not needing a place to tape up films. And space is always worth something in a growing shop.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Rockers on May 31, 2017, 07:31:24 PM
One advantage of the HP cartridge is that the cartridge is also the head so you don't have problems with blocked heads, etc.
I worked out that the cost of printing a screen is the same as the cost of film.
I am doing more Sep's. CYMK and  simulated and what I saw was that this printer does not print a good dot, especially up to 5 and 95% plus.      If you print mainly spot and are happy with dots from 10 to 90%
It's a good machine.
2%-98% measured on the screen at 55LPI.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Grand on May 31, 2017, 08:28:40 PM
We have a freestyler. We Make about 15-30 screens a day with it in 2 head mode. By the time I expose and rinse the screen the one in printer is usually done depending on image size.  Support has been great from exile.  No complaints about ours!
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Maxie on May 31, 2017, 11:56:58 PM
Good to hear from someone who has one.
Rockers, is the  2-98% on the screen or printed on the shirt?
In the demo I saw there was a 2 % dot but the quality of it was so bad it wouldn't wash out and print.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Rockers on June 01, 2017, 02:47:38 AM
We have a freestyler. We Make about 15-30 screens a day with it in 2 head mode. By the time I expose and rinse the screen the one in printer is usually done depending on image size.  Support has been great from exile.  No complaints about ours!
How are your halftone screens coming out? Better result then printed films?
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Nation03 on June 20, 2019, 08:10:55 AM
Has anyone else pulled the trigger on one of these? CTS is looking like more of a possibility for me and I'm really getting tired of films. This machine seems like a perfect fit for my setup. I'm only doing about 25-50 screens a week but to free up the space of stored films and have quicker setups I think this will allow me to take in more work or at the very least improve my workflow.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: avogel on June 20, 2019, 04:09:25 PM
We have been looking at this unit also. We keep thinking it has to be better than films, but we haven't pulled the trigger on it.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Dottonedan on June 20, 2019, 04:20:56 PM
Yep. The time and space saved in screen room and film storage, and ease of getting files and re-loading for re-orders. No brainer.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Rockers on June 20, 2019, 09:07:00 PM
Has anyone else pulled the trigger on one of these? CTS is looking like more of a possibility for me and I'm really getting tired of films. This machine seems like a perfect fit for my setup. I'm only doing about 25-50 screens a week but to free up the space of stored films and have quicker setups I think this will allow me to take in more work or at the very least improve my workflow.
We are in the same boat as you. Maybe around 30-50 screens a week. It has been a huge time saver. We bought Spyder II  showroom model from Exile for around 50% of the actual retail price.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Nation03 on June 21, 2019, 05:51:14 AM
Has anyone else pulled the trigger on one of these? CTS is looking like more of a possibility for me and I'm really getting tired of films. This machine seems like a perfect fit for my setup. I'm only doing about 25-50 screens a week but to free up the space of stored films and have quicker setups I think this will allow me to take in more work or at the very least improve my workflow.
We are in the same boat as you. Maybe around 30-50 screens a week. It has been a huge time saver. We bought aa showroom model from Exile for around 50% of the actual retail price.

Glad to hear it's working out for you! Any major issues or maintenance involved? My main issue is that I don't quite have a temperature contained space for it so I'm worried about too much humidity. I can always build a room for it or keep a dehumidifier near it but I wasn't sure how sensitive these are. Thanks!
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Logowear on June 21, 2019, 09:18:35 AM
You'll need a minimum of 50% humidity for it to work properly.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Nation03 on June 21, 2019, 10:16:24 AM
You'll need a minimum of 50% humidity for it to work properly.

That shouldn't be an issue, it's pretty sticky in my shop. Was worried about it being too humid but I guess the print heads prefer it?
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Dottonedan on June 21, 2019, 11:34:02 AM
I don't know if it's the same or not, but with the M&R wet ink, it depends on the environment as to the results. The ink can work well at 35% humidity in one shop yet it can run or spread in another shop at 35%. One may have air conditioning while another shop doesn't. So 35% RH in one works differently at 35% in another.


This is why the machine/software on the Wet ink printers are more versatile than wax printers. You can adjust the printer settings to work better in your specific environment. I'd think that the wax printers are adjustable as well, but not needed as much with the wax since it solidify's as it hits the screen. This is a good selling point for screen rooms as you can have poor, good or great screen room environments. There are a ton of people that just don't want to have to improve their processes in their screen room so, Wax is a good choice in that case. Having said that, you should also be able to adjust your wet ink printer to work in any environment also.  By default, or standard settings, it's to be good between 35-50% RH. Then when you get it there and installed,they  test it, they may find that your Tech needs to adjust how the printer spits the ink out in the software to accommodate.

I've installed in some extreme environments and had no issues with default settings. It's really strange.  One shop in Maine, in the winter, had the back window open that they used to offload stuff from trucks. Musta been 40-45 degrees outside with some color rainy air blowing in...and they had the machine right below the window across the walkway. RH was ridiculous and very cold, yet the machine ran fine.  Then I've been in perfect conditions environment conditions....yet they did not stock a lot of screens so the blew through them fast, (wash out, coat, barely dry, print, expose, semi dry and off to be used in production (all too fast). So the emulsion has moisture. There are many reasons outside of the inks chemical makeup that affect the results....and is almost never the inks fault, nor your emulsion type.

I always ask if there is any breakdown of the screens on press to the owner. They will typically say "oh, never a problem" but when you ask the people on press, they may say otherwise. How people work in a shops specific are may impact in other areas. If you just double your stock of screens, you eliminate a ton of other issues.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: hoogie on June 21, 2019, 04:52:19 PM
We have a freestyler. We Make about 15-30 screens a day with it in 2 head mode. By the time I expose and rinse the screen the one in printer is usually done depending on image size.  Support has been great from exile.  No complaints about ours!

Grand, what kind of prints are you putting out and what dpi setting for halftones? Sim process or just spot colors?
Do you use tri-lock on press for setups? If so hows this machine do on line ups?
Wax is my preferred choice, but with some up coming equipment additions coming not sure that's in the budget. I for one like the fact that when you replace ink it's also the print head, yes maybe a lil or lot more cost than others but it's nice to know there wont be a clog waiting for you in the morning.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Dottonedan on June 24, 2019, 09:20:33 AM
We have a freestyler. We Make about 15-30 screens a day with it in 2 head mode. By the time I expose and rinse the screen the one in printer is usually done depending on image size.  Support has been great from exile.  No complaints about ours!

Grand, what kind of prints are you putting out and what dpi setting for halftones? Sim process or just spot colors?
Do you use tri-lock on press for setups? If so hows this machine do on line ups?
Wax is my preferred choice, but with some up coming equipment additions coming not sure that's in the budget. I for one like the fact that when you replace ink it's also the print head, yes maybe a lil or lot more cost than others but it's nice to know there wont be a clog waiting for you in the morning.


Change print head when you change ink?  I'm not sure I understand. Can you elaborate a little more?   I don't think that when adding or changing ink, that you need to replace a print head.
Title: Re: Exile FreeStyler CTS
Post by: Maxie on June 24, 2019, 09:29:01 AM
Dan the ink casette has the print head so when you change the casette you change the head.
I looked at these units about 2 years ago and did not get one, the quality was not good enough for our needs.