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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: Redeemed on October 11, 2017, 06:13:07 PM

Title: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Redeemed on October 11, 2017, 06:13:07 PM
I'm very new to all this but I'm learning a lot from this forum, thanks everyone! With that said I'm in the hunt for emulsion and trying to find what will work for me. I will most likely be using a UV Unfiltered Black light based Exposure unit (which I'm also in the hunt for) I know there are duel cure emulsions and photopolymers, duels seem to be easier for beginners but not to sure on that either! I have come across Three that seem they may be good, whats your thoughts? Oh will mostly be printing with Plastisol since I just bought the Rio Mixing system but wouldn't mind exploring with water base and discharge sometimes, thanks.

1. ChromaTech WR

2. Ryonet WBP Dual Cure Water Based Plastisol Hybrid Emulsion

3. ChromaLime
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: screenxpress on October 11, 2017, 11:04:23 PM
Since you listed a Ryonet product, I suggest you check out the Green Galaxy Cryocoat for WB, Plastisol, and Discharge.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Prince Art on October 12, 2017, 09:52:53 AM
In the first place I worked, we used dual cure, but I've used nothing but pure photopolymers since opening my shop. Started with Ulano QTX, have used Saati Textil PV for years now. Single-step, no activation, long pot life, quick exposure times. Happy enough with this type to not put much energy into trying other options. (I may at some point, if I get around to proper evaluation of low-percentage dots or something like that. But haven't had real need to do so thus far.)
Title: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Biverson on October 12, 2017, 10:11:23 AM
...have used Saati Textil PV for years now. Single-step, no activation, long pot life, quick exposure times. Happy enough with this type to not put much energy into trying other options. (I may at some point, if I get around to proper evaluation of low-percentage dots or something like that. But haven't had real need to do so thus far.)

Another shoutout for Saati. I use the PHU as it's good for water base too and have never tried anything else as it just works. Just got an LED unit and am more than happy with how my screens are exposing. The cryocoat from Ryonet is made by Saati, just a little thinner, from what I've heard.



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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Maxie on October 12, 2017, 10:36:39 AM
Last year I switched to Saati PHU.
Expose with their LED panel.
I'm very happy with the results.
Expose between 30-90 sec, depending on screen count.
Wash out with a pressure gun.
We print water and plastisol without problems but I must say we put the screens in front on a big window to dry so they are all getting a post exposure from the sun.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: screenprintguy on October 12, 2017, 11:37:26 AM
Murakami T9. You can print ANYTHING with it, no hardeners, no diazo, fast exposing. Print sim process to discharge prints with a post exposure. We use this and have printed runs up to 10k impressions discharge and ZERO breakdown issues. Can't beat the price either. Spot color supply sells it. If you use an led unit, you can expose 305T or 330S in 2 seconds, 230T in 4 seconds, 225-s in 3 seconds, 150S in 5 seconds, 180 S in 4 seconds. This is with a starlight as you know all led units are NOT equal, but these are our times on the mesh counts we currently use. Post expose in the sun or back on your unit for 30 seconds to 1 minute on the unit, or just stick in the sun ink side up. We NEVER have breakdown issues. Awesome stuff all the way around if you are looking for 1 emulsion. We coat on a M&R UniKote 1/1 sharp edge inside, round edge outside on speed 40 and have perfect eom for all of our print needs and the above exposure times. Contact Spot Color Supply, they may send you a sample.

We were using the Chroma Tech wr, it is just as good, but hard to find suppliers willing to stock it, and had some inconsistencies between pails, so that's a no go for me. You'll find the T9 with better pricing as well as a Murakami Rep right here on shirt board, Alan Buffington.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Stinkhorn Press on October 12, 2017, 11:56:24 AM
I will most likely be using a UV Unfiltered Black light based Exposure unit (which I'm also in the hunt for)

best bet. CALL the SALES REPS. Kiwo. Ulano. Saati. etc. Walk them through YOUR shop and what YOU need. You'll get a million answers here that MIGHT work in another shop just fine asking such a broad Q.
TEST. It sucks.

ignoring what I said above - we tried a whole bunch of things trying to get emulsion to be even HALF friendly when we didn't have the space and cash to do it right (flo tubes is NOT doing it right, but CAN be a semi functional step in the right direction - you NEED point source or LED ASAP.)
When we were on flo tubes, Ulano's ProClaim was hands down the winner. You CANNOT get a full expo with tubes, full stop. And UNDERexposed emulsion causes all sorts of headaches, starting with reclaim. ProClaim's claim to fame is that it is EASY to reclaim, even if under exposed. which you will be. did i say that yet? It's a dual cure. Add the diazo. Makes it even SLOWER to expose. but you take the bad with everything else. as usual YMMV - call the sales reps.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Rockers on October 12, 2017, 02:45:27 PM
As much as I would like to use Murakami emulsions I found applying the same recycling procedure, remove emulsion, but no degreasing, we got a lot of fisheyes compared to using Chromaline emulsions. I really wanted to use Aquasol TS but the amount of fisheyes we had compared to the Chromablue was incredible.

Currently we use

Chroma Lime

ImageMate DZ 343 for waterbased inks
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Homer on October 12, 2017, 03:10:57 PM
don't get stuck on brands, buy what's local to do. They all pretty much the same thing.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Nation03 on October 12, 2017, 03:29:39 PM
Ulano Blue is my go to right now. One of the only emulsions I don't need to put baby powder on to prevent my films from sticking to it. Comes in at $40 per gallon when you buy a 5 gallon so I'm all for that as well.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: screenxpress on October 12, 2017, 04:06:35 PM
Ulano Blue is my go to right now. One of the only emulsions I don't need to put baby powder on to prevent my films from sticking to it. Comes in at $40 per gallon when you buy a 5 gallon so I'm all for that as well.

I'm guessing you are only plastisol.  According to the Union spec sheet -

BLUE is a ready-to-use, extremely-fast-exposing SBQ-photopolymer direct emulsion formulated for imprinted sportswear printing. It resists plastisol inks—including newer, more aggressive, post-phthalate plastisols—and most washup solvents, making it exceptionally easy to reclaim in automatic equipment or by hand.

I think "Redeemed" was going to explore waterbase and discharge too.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Nation03 on October 12, 2017, 08:46:23 PM
Ah my fault, long day I missed that part. I liked cryocoat for discharge, but the last batch I had broke down after 25-30 prints. It was never an issue and I didn't do anything differently so I'm not sure what the issue was.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: screenxpress on October 12, 2017, 09:08:33 PM
Hmmmm, I have only been doing some test runs with Discharge and Cryocoat.  Nothing over a dozen yet so who knows, I may sour on it down the road.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Prince Art on October 13, 2017, 12:43:27 AM
... And UNDERexposed emulsion causes all sorts of headaches, starting with reclaim. ....

Post expose will help with this. I got in the habit of post-exposing specifically to address reclaim, back when we were using a flo tube box. I think it's a good practice in general, because it can seemingly only do good for your stencils.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: XG Print on October 13, 2017, 08:39:34 AM
We have really been liking the CCI Pro-Chem VPR emulsion.  We have been using it a few months now and really like it.  We have had way less pin hole issues than we had with the Saati stuff.  Pretty easy on the wallet as well.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Nation03 on October 13, 2017, 08:56:23 AM
... And UNDERexposed emulsion causes all sorts of headaches, starting with reclaim. ....

Post expose will help with this. I got in the habit of post-exposing specifically to address reclaim, back when we were using a flo tube box. I think it's a good practice in general, because it can seemingly only do good for your stencils.

I ended up post exposing for the back print and had the same trouble. It was summer at the time so I put it out in the sun for a while as well. Not sure what the deal was. The bulb in my Amergraph is pretty old, but I haven't seen any other signs of under exposure.

I'm mainly a Plastisol shop anyway. Main reason I used discharge on that job was because it was a 20" long print and I don't have a flash long enough to PFP it.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Redeemed on October 13, 2017, 01:05:56 PM
Murakami T9. You can print ANYTHING with it, no hardeners, no diazo, fast exposing. Print sim process to discharge prints with a post exposure. We use this and have printed runs up to 10k impressions discharge and ZERO breakdown issues. Can't beat the price either. Spot color supply sells it. If you use an led unit, you can expose 305T or 330S in 2 seconds, 230T in 4 seconds, 225-s in 3 seconds, 150S in 5 seconds, 180 S in 4 seconds. This is with a starlight as you know all led units are NOT equal, but these are our times on the mesh counts we currently use. Post expose in the sun or back on your unit for 30 seconds to 1 minute on the unit, or just stick in the sun ink side up. We NEVER have breakdown issues. Awesome stuff all the way around if you are looking for 1 emulsion. We coat on a M&R UniKote 1/1 sharp edge inside, round edge outside on speed 40 and have perfect eom for all of our print needs and the above exposure times. Contact Spot Color Supply, they may send you a sample.

We were using the Chroma Tech wr, it is just as good, but hard to find suppliers willing to stock it, and had some inconsistencies between pails, so that's a no go for me. You'll find the T9 with better pricing as well as a Murakami Rep right here on shirt board, Alan Buffington.

Sounds good since i am going to be buying some stuff from Spot Color Supply but i see the times and ease of use for you because you have a LED Exposure Unit, I am going to be using a UV Blacklight Tube Unit, will it work with that? i'm Guessing if it will It definitely wont be at those exposure times.

I JUST CHECKED SPOT COLOR SUPPLY, THEY DON'T SELL Murakami T9!
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: IntegrityShirts on October 13, 2017, 02:08:30 PM
Murakami T9. You can print ANYTHING with it, no hardeners, no diazo, fast exposing. Print sim process to discharge prints with a post exposure. We use this and have printed runs up to 10k impressions discharge and ZERO breakdown issues. Can't beat the price either. Spot color supply sells it. If you use an led unit, you can expose 305T or 330S in 2 seconds, 230T in 4 seconds, 225-s in 3 seconds, 150S in 5 seconds, 180 S in 4 seconds. This is with a starlight as you know all led units are NOT equal, but these are our times on the mesh counts we currently use. Post expose in the sun or back on your unit for 30 seconds to 1 minute on the unit, or just stick in the sun ink side up. We NEVER have breakdown issues. Awesome stuff all the way around if you are looking for 1 emulsion. We coat on a M&R UniKote 1/1 sharp edge inside, round edge outside on speed 40 and have perfect eom for all of our print needs and the above exposure times. Contact Spot Color Supply, they may send you a sample.

We were using the Chroma Tech wr, it is just as good, but hard to find suppliers willing to stock it, and had some inconsistencies between pails, so that's a no go for me. You'll find the T9 with better pricing as well as a Murakami Rep right here on shirt board, Alan Buffington.


Sounds good since i am going to be buying some stuff from Spot Color Supply but i see the times and ease of use for you because you have a LED Exposure Unit, I am going to be using a UV Blacklight Tube Unit, will it work with that? i'm Guessing if it will It definitely wont be at those exposure times.

I JUST CHECKED SPOT COLOR SUPPLY, THEY DON'T SELL Murakami T9!

They had it yesterday, I saw it. Must be out of stock. Shoot him an email, I bet he has more on the way.

I just ordered a gallon of TXR from him to try out and compare to aquasol HVP. I don't like that their datasheets list the emulsions as having basically the exact same properties as the other photopolymer emulsions. I think murakami should have a direct comparison tool so we can know what the DIFFERENCE is between these emulsions. I don't want to have to call/email/hunt down the details. Just want it up there on a site somewhere that I can browse at midnight when I have free time haha
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: mk162 on October 13, 2017, 02:19:55 PM
My understanding is with Murakami it's a distributor issue.  They are ok to sell the mesh, but not that emulsion.  River City has it.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Redeemed on October 13, 2017, 07:48:55 PM
Ulano Blue is my go to right now. One of the only emulsions I don't need to put baby powder on to prevent my films from sticking to it. Comes in at $40 per gallon when you buy a 5 gallon so I'm all for that as well.

I'm guessing you are only plastisol.  According to the Union spec sheet -

BLUE is a ready-to-use, extremely-fast-exposing SBQ-photopolymer direct emulsion formulated for imprinted sportswear printing. It resists plastisol inks—including newer, more aggressive, post-phthalate plastisols—and most washup solvents, making it exceptionally easy to reclaim in automatic equipment or by hand.

I think "Redeemed" was going to explore waterbase and discharge to


Yes you are right about using others as well! A one hit wonder if there is one and on a UV Tube Exposure Unit.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: screenxpress on October 14, 2017, 12:49:57 AM
I would still check out a quart of Ryonet's premixed Cryocoat and give it a try.  So far it's been working for me.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Redeemed on October 14, 2017, 04:59:43 PM
I appreciate everyone's input on Emulsions! After reading up on some of these brands you guys suggested I'm going to give
Murakami T9 and Murakami Photocure TXR  a try, They seem to be what i'm looking for, thanks for all the help!
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on April 22, 2018, 01:51:25 PM
I would still check out a quart of Ryonet's premixed Cryocoat and give it a try.  So far it's been working for me.

Been using this stuff for a year and it’s time to move on. Lots of breakdown issues (using LED) and frankly it doesn’t hold the detail that I’m trying to get. Going to give the T9 a shot as I like the fact that it has Diazo in it.


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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: screenxpress on April 22, 2018, 03:22:23 PM
I would still check out a quart of Ryonet's premixed Cryocoat and give it a try.  So far it's been working for me.

Been using this stuff for a year and it’s time to move on. Lots of breakdown issues (using LED) and frankly it doesn’t hold the detail that I’m trying to get. Going to give the T9 a shot as I like the fact that it has Diazo in it.


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I have Black Light Florescent tubes, not LEDs. 
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on April 22, 2018, 03:54:55 PM
I would still check out a quart of Ryonet's premixed Cryocoat and give it a try.  So far it's been working for me.

Been using this stuff for a year and it’s time to move on. Lots of breakdown issues (using LED) and frankly it doesn’t hold the detail that I’m trying to get. Going to give the T9 a shot as I like the fact that it has Diazo in it.


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I have Black Light Florescent tubes, not LEDs.

Can’t imagine you can get long runs out of it with blacklight can you? I can get 100 pieces runs or so with no breakdown. Anything more, forget about it even with post harden. Only a liquid gardener allows me to produce high quantity runs.


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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Colin on April 22, 2018, 04:22:42 PM
What led system are you using?

Not all led's are created equal or equidistant ;) :)
Title: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on April 22, 2018, 04:43:49 PM
Mines a workhorse. I know, I know.. inferior to a starlight. Either way, I need to fix the breakdown issue so going to try a different emulsion.

The interesting part is when I first started using Crycoat I could get through 500-1,000 piece runs with no breakdowns and a 15 second burn. Just the past few gallons I’ve had to up my time to 80-90 seconds, post expose and still get breakdown after 100 pieces. Nothing else has changed in my screen making processes.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Colin on April 22, 2018, 07:27:32 PM
Mines a workhorse. I know, I know.. inferior to a starlight. Either way, I need to fix the breakdown issue so going to try a different emulsion.

The interesting part is when I first started using Crycoat I could get through 500-1,000 piece runs with no breakdowns and a 15 second burn. Just the past few gallons I’ve had to up my time to 80-90 seconds, post expose and still get breakdown after 100 pieces. Nothing else has changed in my screen making processes.

If you have been using the same exposure unit this whole time, then your unit is going bad :(

You can try the T9, but I would NOT put in the diazo.  That makes your exposure times much longer.  Expect to have close to the same exposure time.

I would not expect there to be any batch issues with the cryocoat.  But if there were, there would have been a LOT of feedback, so I would check with Ryonet juuuust to make sure.
Title: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on April 22, 2018, 07:31:30 PM
Mines a workhorse. I know, I know.. inferior to a starlight. Either way, I need to fix the breakdown issue so going to try a different emulsion.

The interesting part is when I first started using Crycoat I could get through 500-1,000 piece runs with no breakdowns and a 15 second burn. Just the past few gallons I’ve had to up my time to 80-90 seconds, post expose and still get breakdown after 100 pieces. Nothing else has changed in my screen making processes.

If you have been using the same exposure unit this whole time, then your unit is going bad ????

You can try the T9, but I would NOT put in the diazo.  That makes your exposure times much longer.  Expect to have close to the same exposure time.

I would not expect there to be any batch issues with the cryocoat.  But if there were, there would have been a LOT of feedback, so I would check with Ryonet juuuust to make sure.

Why do you think my unit would be bad? I bet I don’t even have 1000 hours on it yet with bulbs who’s projected life expectancy is 50,000.

I’m not worried about the exposure time. More worried about holding better dots and breakdown than anything else. Is Crycoat just Saati PHU? I thought I read somewhere that it is.

I’m wondering if it had something to do with the winter months. My shop has heat but doesn’t get as warm as we’d like during the winter. Stays about 50-55 overnight.


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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Colin on April 22, 2018, 08:07:01 PM
you went from a 15 second burn to a 90 second burn correct?  That's a 500% increase in exposure time.  If you were to see it just double... something would be wrong.  This is much more than that.

Emulsion is the same?

Screen mesh the same?

Screen mesh COLOR the same?

Emulsion thickness the same?

Dry box the same?  Dry box HUMIDITY the same?

Environment the same?  Environmental Humidity the same?

Films the same?

Film density the same?

Exposure unit glass the same?

SOMETHING changed.  You were getting amazing screens in 15 seconds.  Now you are not, at 500% more time.  What changed in your processes?  What changed in your equipment?

Now, are the cold nights, DRY nights?  or Moist nights?  If you don't already, get a hygrometer so you can check your relative humidity.  Screens (well) above 40% moisture will never be as good as screens below 40% moisture.  You will experience breakdown because a screen was not properly dry enough.

Before switching emulsions (to an emulsion that I love btw) make sure your screen room is following proper procedures and steps to make sure you have an optimal screen for exposure :)

I made an assumption earlier that your screens were properly dried and in optimal condition to be exposed for waterbase.  Lets make sure they are and then work backwards to fix the problem.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: ABuffington on April 23, 2018, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks for some of the great comments on T9 here.  American Niagara carries it out of Atlanta, or PM me with your location and I will help you find it closer than that if you need to.  While we can expose most emulsions with UV light, times can vary widely.  The strength of the lamp itself or source needs to be evaluated.  Many fine LED units out there as well as Metal Halide.  Post exposure helps T9 achieve even more strength, or a strong initial exposure works as well.  Complete cross linking of the emulsion occurs with strong UV light, or close proximity as is found in most LED units.  The longer the exposure needed, the more undercutting of halftones and details, and any lowering of time results in underexposure.  Underexposure will never be as strong as an initial complete exposure.  Post exposure and hardening become a band aid of sorts to underexposure, but can be needed with low wattage systems.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on April 25, 2018, 08:06:53 AM
you went from a 15 second burn to a 90 second burn correct?  That's a 500% increase in exposure time.  If you were to see it just double... something would be wrong.  This is much more than that.

Emulsion is the same?

Screen mesh the same?

Screen mesh COLOR the same?

Emulsion thickness the same?

Dry box the same?  Dry box HUMIDITY the same?

Environment the same?  Environmental Humidity the same?

Films the same?

Film density the same?

Exposure unit glass the same?

SOMETHING changed.  You were getting amazing screens in 15 seconds.  Now you are not, at 500% more time.  What changed in your processes?  What changed in your equipment?

Now, are the cold nights, DRY nights?  or Moist nights?  If you don't already, get a hygrometer so you can check your relative humidity.  Screens (well) above 40% moisture will never be as good as screens below 40% moisture.  You will experience breakdown because a screen was not properly dry enough.

Before switching emulsions (to an emulsion that I love btw) make sure your screen room is following proper procedures and steps to make sure you have an optimal screen for exposure :)

I made an assumption earlier that your screens were properly dried and in optimal condition to be exposed for waterbase.  Lets make sure they are and then work backwards to fix the problem.

The only thing I can think of that changed other than the weather was going from standard mesh to s-mesh on most screens. Other than that, everything has remained the same from stencil thickness to films to ink prep cleaners and degreasers. I have to be honest though, I dont have a hygrometer and know that I need one. Our screening room is a 10x24' room that is walled off from the rest of the shop and has heat. I have put a dehumidifier in there before when the heat is on and it doesn't even run when I set it to 35-40% so I am assuming that our humidity level is below that. I need to get a better grip on the outside weather and our inside temps and humidity levels. I think Im going to pick up a hygrometer/thermometer this weekend and get them mounted up and pay close attention to them over the next couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: mk162 on April 25, 2018, 08:09:33 AM
s-mesh holds more emulsion.  Your screens may not be drying all the way.

Walmart by us has a $8 thermometer and hygrometer on the shelf.  See if your store has one or order it online:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/AcuRite-Digital-Humidity-and-Temperature-Monitor-00325/16888914?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227009373117&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=43538542352&wl4=pla-83259689792&wl5=9010790&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=16888914&wl13=&veh=sem (https://www.walmart.com/ip/AcuRite-Digital-Humidity-and-Temperature-Monitor-00325/16888914?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227009373117&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=43538542352&wl4=pla-83259689792&wl5=9010790&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=16888914&wl13=&veh=sem)
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Colin on April 25, 2018, 08:29:44 AM
Yea, S mesh definitely holds more emulsion.

Do you have fans set up to help circulate the dry air better?  If not, I would look at a way to set that up.

And always have your dehumidifier on - just in case.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on April 25, 2018, 04:58:02 PM
Yea, S mesh definitely holds more emulsion.

Do you have fans set up to help circulate the dry air better?  If not, I would look at a way to set that up.

And always have your dehumidifier on - just in case.

I have an overhead fan that and the heater is ceiling mounted. The idea was that the heat blows into the fan and then the fan pushes it down and around. My screens feel dry to the touch and I’ve never had films that “stick” but is there a more scientific way of determining if they are in fact dry? I’ve had screens dry for hours up to a day or more and still get some breakdown on longer runs. Mostly at squeegee corners which is an easy fix by taping the squeegee paths but on some of the longer runs the image itself breaks down from time to time. I’ve been using liquid hardener but it’s a time consumer and obviously an added expense. I need to figure out my situation so I can get back to trouble free screens from the gate.


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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Colin on April 25, 2018, 06:40:53 PM
That Hygrometer will put you miles ahead.  Knowing your humidity is HUGE when it comes to making a proper waterbase stencil. 


If you can, pop for a tool that measure the moisture IN your emulsion.  Most shops (like mine) do not have that and go by the relative humidity and general knowledge of their environment.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: ABuffington on April 25, 2018, 07:31:02 PM
To confirm:  S mesh holds a lot more emulsion.  Coat T9 with a sharp edge, 1:2 is maximum, 1:1 for halftones is typical on mesh above 200.  Drying screens is important so have a a humidity/temp gauge (hygrometer) is very important in the screen room.  A humidity reading of 90% basically is soaking your screens in water.  We shoot for 35% humidity and 72-80 degrees in the room.  Heating and air conditioning help as well for year round control of your room.  If unavailable a dehumidifier, space heater, fan and a temp+humidity gauge work wonders in a screen room, the larger the better for storage.  Keep sink/water/reclaimed screens out of the screen coating and storage room.  Dry Screens/the max exposure possible with good details/post expose and drying well, create super durable high res screens with Murakami T9.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on May 14, 2018, 08:47:16 PM
Yea, S mesh definitely holds more emulsion.

Do you have fans set up to help circulate the dry air better?  If not, I would look at a way to set that up.

And always have your dehumidifier on - just in case.

Good news bad news.

Been using the Murakami T9 and my exposure times are back to 15-30 seconds. Post harden for a minute and I have a nice solid stencil for wb/dc.

Bad news is that now my films are sticking like crazy. To the point where it just took me 5 screens to make 2 because the film ripped the emulsion off the screen. I’ve read that diazo emulsions can have this issue and baby powder is a band aid. I haven’t tried baby powder and really want to solve the issue without a band aid.

I’ll be honest, I slacked on the hygrometer so I have one ordered, finally. I will say that emulsion feels tacky so I’m guessing my humidity is too high but it’s puzzling because the Crycoat (Saati PHU I believe) dried within 20 minutes in the same settings now it takes over a day for the T9 to dry and it’s still tacky. Then again maybe the Cryocoat was never actually dry and that was my issue. Wasn’t tacky at all though so I’m stumped at the moment.

1/1 coating on both emulsions.


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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Colin on May 14, 2018, 08:50:55 PM
Yes.  The stickiness when the exposure unit gets warm is normal with many emulsions, including Murakami.  It is suggested to use a very fine layer of talc/baby powder to help with that.

Part of why I used PHU for 4 years until I got my starlight unit without glass.
Title: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on May 14, 2018, 10:35:31 PM
Yes.  The stickiness when the exposure unit gets warm is normal with many emulsions, including Murakami.  It is suggested to use a very fine layer of talc/baby powder to help with that.

Part of why I used PHU for 4 years until I got my starlight unit without glass.

I have LED.. didn’t think it got that hot? I don’t even need tape to hold the film on so I’m thinking my humidity levels are still to high. They’re sticking before burning.


Update: Got the humidity level down to 35% (according to my dehumidifier) and film only stuck post-exposure.



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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: screenxpress on May 14, 2018, 11:01:16 PM
baby powder is a band aid. I haven’t tried baby powder and really want to solve the issue without a band aid.

I use a light sprinkling of baby powder all the time and spread around with my hand before attaching the film.  I started doing that for exactly the reason you mentioned.

Has not had any negative impact in my exposures whatsoever.

If that's a band-aid, I'll take a box of Curity flesh colored strips.  :)
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Colin on May 15, 2018, 08:22:17 AM
Yes.  The stickiness when the exposure unit gets warm is normal with many emulsions, including Murakami.  It is suggested to use a very fine layer of talc/baby powder to help with that.

Part of why I used PHU for 4 years until I got my starlight unit without glass.

I have LED.. didn’t think it got that hot? I don’t even need tape to hold the film on so I’m thinking my humidity levels are still to high. They’re sticking before burning.


Update: Got the humidity level down to 35% (according to my dehumidifier) and film only stuck post-exposure.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My starlight will get warm.... on a 10 second exposure.  So yea, those LED's can put out some heat.

How are you doing your post exposures?  I am confused about how your film would stick during a post expose?  A "post" expose is after you expose/rinse/fully dry an image.  Its best when the screen is turned over in your unit so the light hits the squeegee side of your screen - cross linking any residual polymers left in the emulsion.
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: ABuffington on May 15, 2018, 11:18:05 AM
Humidity can also promote tackiness on the emulsion.  Baby powder or talc, just a tiny bit spread on the emulsion prevents stickiness.

Al
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on May 15, 2018, 12:14:14 PM
Yes.  The stickiness when the exposure unit gets warm is normal with many emulsions, including Murakami.  It is suggested to use a very fine layer of talc/baby powder to help with that.

Part of why I used PHU for 4 years until I got my starlight unit without glass.

I have LED.. didn’t think it got that hot? I don’t even need tape to hold the film on so I’m thinking my humidity levels are still to high. They’re sticking before burning.


Update: Got the humidity level down to 35% (according to my dehumidifier) and film only stuck post-exposure.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My starlight will get warm.... on a 10 second exposure.  So yea, those LED's can put out some heat.

How are you doing your post exposures?  I am confused about how your film would stick during a post expose?  A "post" expose is after you expose/rinse/fully dry an image.  Its best when the screen is turned over in your unit so the light hits the squeegee side of your screen - cross linking any residual polymers left in the emulsion.

I can see how the way I worded that was confusing. I meant when I put my screen on the unit for exposure the film is not sticking but when I go to remove the film AFTER exposing it is sticking. So I suppose there is enough heat being generated during exposure to make it stick


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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on May 31, 2018, 07:55:06 AM
Just a quick update. Almost through my first gallon of T9 and it’s great. I am back to 10-20 second exposure times, 1 minute post harden and getting durable screens that have been holding up to dc/wb without any issues. I didn’t change a thing in my dark room except the emulsion. I don’t want to say it was just a Cryocoat issue but I can’t seem to find anything that says otherwise.


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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Doug S on May 31, 2018, 08:31:25 AM
I don’t want to say it was just a Cryocoat issue but I can’t seem to find anything that says otherwise.


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Speaking of Cryocoat.  I think it's a rebranded emulsion and it seems like I've read it here before but what is the comparison emulsion or is there one?
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on May 31, 2018, 10:03:49 AM
I don’t want to say it was just a Cryocoat issue but I can’t seem to find anything that says otherwise.


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Speaking of Cryocoat.  I think it's a rebranded emulsion and it seems like I've read it here before but what is the comparison emulsion or is there one?

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I believe it is Saati PH


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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Colin on May 31, 2018, 11:21:14 AM
It is the Saati PHU.

The cryocoat has a slight change in rheology.  Allowing it to coat a bit smoother.  Other than that it is exactly the same.

Lancaster - something I never thought of.... and I kick myself for forgetting this... DURING WINTER ;)   Is it possible your gallon of emulsion froze or came close to freezing either during shipment to you or while it was at your shop?
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Doug S on May 31, 2018, 11:37:58 AM
I don’t want to say it was just a Cryocoat issue but I can’t seem to find anything that says otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Speaking of Cryocoat.  I think it's a rebranded emulsion and it seems like I've read it here before but what is the comparison emulsion or is there one?

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I believe it is Saati PH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is the Saati PHU.

The cryocoat has a slight change in rheology.  Allowing it to coat a bit smoother.  Other than that it is exactly the same.

Lancaster - something I never thought of.... and I kick myself for forgetting this... DURING WINTER ;)   Is it possible your gallon of emulsion froze or came close to freezing either during shipment to you or while it was at your shop?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: lancasterprinthouse on June 01, 2018, 01:50:13 PM
It is the Saati PHU.

The cryocoat has a slight change in rheology.  Allowing it to coat a bit smoother.  Other than that it is exactly the same.

Lancaster - something I never thought of.... and I kick myself for forgetting this... DURING WINTER ;)   Is it possible your gallon of emulsion froze or came close to freezing either during shipment to you or while it was at your shop?

I had thought of that as well but I have no way of telling now and didn’t think of it until after I had the issues. I make sure I order emulsion far in advance of needing more so when it comes in it goes right to the shelf. By the time I get around to new gallons, if it was frozen it could have easily thawed.


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Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: GKitson on June 01, 2018, 01:54:52 PM
It is the Saati PHU.

The cryocoat has a slight change in rheology.  Allowing it to coat a bit smoother.  Other than that it is exactly the same.

Lancaster - something I never thought of.... and I kick myself for forgetting this... DURING WINTER ;)   Is it possible your gallon of emulsion froze or came close to freezing either during shipment to you or while it was at your shop?

SAATI PHU is freeze thaw stable according to the SAATI chemical geeks, we have shipped in colder weather with no apparent problems
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: Colin on June 01, 2018, 02:12:18 PM
Good to know Greg Thanks!
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: n_meza13 on July 12, 2018, 12:59:40 PM
I am fairly new to the process as well, I have been using AP-Blue that I bought from Screen Print Direct. its been working great for me so far! :)
Title: Re: Emulsion Which one?
Post by: mimosatexas on July 12, 2018, 02:07:51 PM
Can you stop advertising your brand in every thread?  Thanks!