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Heat Seal - Heat Press - Whatever you want to call it! => General Heat Seal => Topic started by: brandon on October 18, 2020, 12:53:21 AM
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Anyone else on here following this? Stuff popping up all over FB.
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DTF?
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Yeah the new digital transfer to film tech. Works on everything from cotton to yes black polyester no pretreat and no specialty printer. You can modify an Epson for example. Eric on here might be getting one. Eric?
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Oh yeah Zane you might want to check this out. It was what I was looking for with the Latex series by HP but those dont do it and are way more expensive than this.
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this looks interesting. I came across one aEpson and the Uninet model. Are there others to look into? The price seems very reasonable if it can do what it says.
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Some Chinese suppliers claim using latex ink in it’s inkjet printer for DTF, but printheads are Epson 3200, no HP.
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this looks interesting. I came across one aEpson and the Uninet model. Are there others to look into? The price seems very reasonable if it can do what it says.
There seem to be a lot of options. I am trying to make sense of all of it. Hoping Eric from Night Owls can chime in here.
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Yeah, Im very inetrested in this. As we start getting involve in e-commerce and fulfillment, transfers look to be the perfect choice for low quantities and just to fulfilling small orders.
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right now the biggest issue is finding quality suppliers. Basically if you're not good at tinkering, it can be an issue.
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Is this not the same process as used by Supercolour for their transfers?
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I've been seeing this too showing up in my feed. I'd like to see what one feels like, and how it washes. This would "seem" to be considerably less expensive to start up and operate than DTG. I like to tinker, but it may be over my head, not that that ever stopped me before.
Steve
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Is this not the same process as used by Supercolour for their transfers?
It's close, but not the same.
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Looked into this over the weekend.
Here is a supplier in Florida that looks to be selling converted Epson printers https://kingdomtshirt.com/collections/dtf-printing (https://kingdomtshirt.com/collections/dtf-printing)
Looks like this was developed in China, and they are selling that system here. I wonder what the workflow is to get it to print the under base and how much control you have over that as it uses the light magenta and light cyan inks.
A lot of samples I see have white base sticking out, which I wonder if is user error or not enough control of the base. But also got some samples from a DTG Maverick that had the white base sticking, so maybe some people just don't see those glaring issues?
Looks interesting, I like the print area and workflow of this unit here https://www.facebook.com/allen.lau.359126/videos/343915286982120 (https://www.facebook.com/allen.lau.359126/videos/343915286982120) more industrial, but with no support maybe Kingdom would be a better option although not sure someone out of their garage may awesome support either.
Still looks cool.
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Looked into this over the weekend.
Here is a supplier in Florida that looks to be selling converted Epson printers https://kingdomtshirt.com/collections/dtf-printing (https://kingdomtshirt.com/collections/dtf-printing)
Looks like this was developed in China, and they are selling that system here. I wonder what the workflow is to get it to print the under base and how much control you have over that as it uses the light magenta and light cyan inks.
A lot of samples I see have white base sticking out, which I wonder if is user error or not enough control of the base. But also got some samples from a DTG Maverick that had the white base sticking, so maybe some people just don't see those glaring issues?
Looks interesting, I like the print area and workflow of this unit here https://www.facebook.com/allen.lau.359126/videos/343915286982120 (https://www.facebook.com/allen.lau.359126/videos/343915286982120) more industrial, but with no support maybe Kingdom would be a better option although not sure someone out of their garage may awesome support either.
Still looks cool.
Allen is really cool, and very knowledgeable, but i do worry about support from China. We bought a coater from a vendor in china, and it's amazing, but we had one minor issue, which resulted in me being at the shop at midnight, talking to our rep, through a video chat, while he was pointing his phone at another phone, and translating what his techs were saying.
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I have one of the larger systems on a ship somewhere. When it gets here the testing and learning will begin. I have already gotten samples and washed tested what they sent. I have spoken to the manufacturer about distributing and supporting their products in the US. I wanted to get one in and make sure I am very comfortable with the tech before I move forward with it. There are at least two different types of film available and a few different powder grades and inks. I think you will see lots more coming out.
There are problems with both the small desktop system and the larger "commercial systems". Registration of the underbase will not be one of the problems if the files are prepared correctly. Here are some pros and cons...
No pretreat
Works on all types of fabric
Feels a little softer than vinyl
Bright high resolution prints
White ink is thinner and does not clog as much as DTG ink
Wash test is great (11 washes so far with no fading, cracking, or other problem)
Less Expensive than other print methods except screen printing.
Equipment and supplies not widely available outside of China.
Spare parts and tech support will be a problem.
Shipping is expensive and takes a few weeks by ship.
If you are in the US, the duty/tariff plus taxes can add 30% to the price.
Smaller systems are desktop printers that have been modified.
No small auto powder system is available at this time. You have to powder and cure the transfer manually, similar to a plastisol transfer.
Larger systems have auto powder spreaders that cure the transfer. However, you need to print several feet of film from the print head until the finished transfer comes out of the powder/cure equipment. Not good for one off prints unless you are doing a bunch of them together. You can cut the film as it comes out of the printer before it goes through the powder machine and powder/cure manually.
I don't want to go into rips and how to prepare the files until I have some experience.
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that is awesome! i've been hesitant to buy one...but i'm getting closer. cannot wait to hear your experience.
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DonR, that's great you're diving into this. Can these units print a UB that is good to go on polyester/performance wear?
If the supacolor product is similar/same tech, I'm all for it. Ticks the boxes without feeling weird on a ring spun T. They are a bit plasticky still but any film/coating style embellishment will be. We've been using them for graphics with high detail, imaging at small print size; it's superior to screen in these cases with the smaller dot.
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I have one of the larger systems on a ship somewhere.
You have a link to what you are getting?
I think these could be really cool for inside neck label transfers, print them on demand, full color as an option, and they would look and feel great as long as little text comes out good.
Seems exciting, hopefully it works out well.
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ZooCity, it prints a white underbase on top of the colors. The white hot melt powder is added to the underbase right after it has been printed. It can then be transferred onto any material including poly/performance wear. It transfers at 300F for 10 to 15 seconds. I believe you can transfer at a lower temp for a longer time but I have not tried it yet. Once transferred it can be stretched more than screen printing, vinyl, DTG, etc. I really pulled on the samples I have and they go right back into shape with the shirt.
Zanegun08, it should work well for neck labels with little to no feel.
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ZooCity, The feel is more like a plastisol screen printed transfer. There is no backing that transfers to the garment. The ink mixed with the hot melt powder is the only thing that transfers. With some of the transfers films a little of the coating that holds the ink will also transfer. As soon as I can, I will print out a bunch of samples for anyone who wants them.
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ZooCity, it prints a white underbase on top of the colors. The white hot melt powder is added to the underbase right after it has been printed. It can then be transferred onto any material including poly/performance wear. It transfers at 300F for 10 to 15 seconds. I believe you can transfer at a lower temp for a longer time but I have not tried it yet. Once transferred it can be stretched more than screen printing, vinyl, DTG, etc. I really pulled on the samples I have and they go right back into shape with the shirt.
Zanegun08, it should work well for neck labels with little to no feel.
this is my favorite thing about printing with PET film now. Don shoot me an email, and i can get you connected with a great PET supplier.
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Thank you Don! This is a great thread for everyone on here. Definitely need more samples.
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I've been on the fence for a while, We've tried a variety of transfer materials with ecosol inks, they all feel like a shower curtain. The best /softest results we've found so far is the Siser easisubli with sublimation inks, however you are limited to vector objects since it needs to be die cut.
check these out if you haven't already. I see the large scale units in the 7k range, plus freight
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2020-Hot-Sale-Dtf-Printer-Heat_1600123893657.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.74.353f6aceDK0a0T (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2020-Hot-Sale-Dtf-Printer-Heat_1600123893657.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.74.353f6aceDK0a0T)
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ZooCity, The feel is more like a plastisol screen printed transfer.
DonR, what is your main use case for getting this equipment?
I like it for small hits with high detail, possibility for inside labels, transfers for hats, high detail images on fleece. Maybe short run transfers for something that could be screen printed.
I am going to wear the Supacolor sample shirt they sent tomorrow to see what it feels like for wearing. I see it as a niche tool, with limited use cases.
Wondering if you are going after something else with it, or what your main use will be?
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ZooCity, The feel is more like a plastisol screen printed transfer.
DonR, what is your main use case for getting this equipment?
I like it for small hits with high detail, possibility for inside labels, transfers for hats, high detail images on fleece. Maybe short run transfers for something that could be screen printed.
I am going to wear the Supacolor sample shirt they sent tomorrow to see what it feels like for wearing. I see it as a niche tool, with limited use cases.
Wondering if you are going after something else with it, or what your main use will be?
thought that at first, and then we've placed 4 orders with supacolor this week alone.
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zanegun08, Lost all of the white heads on my Brother DTG during the shut down. I want to find something more reliable, less maintenance, and more versatile. Don't know what I will do with it until I have played with it... I did not want to go with the modified desktops printers because I do not think they can give me the reliable machine I want. I am also not a big fan of one-off work, so again the smaller systems did not fit what I want. The sample prints and what everyone is saying sounds good but you never know until its in your shop. This may turn out to be a bust and sit in a corner collecting dust.
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I also recently discovered this process and I ordered from Supacolor 4 times in 2 weeks though. I don't want to reclaim screens anymore :-\..that being said it does not feel heavy but does have a slight plastic feel or look to it. It is crisp and seems to be wearing well so far. Being that my press is only a 6 color manual..this product has opened up new opportunities for me. Previously I was thinking of adding DTG..hmm maybe or White Toner Laser ... prob not. NOw I want one of these so I can sell transfers to my competitors...
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Thanks everyone for contributing to this post. Looking forward to what some of you are going to do. 2021 we are going forward with a lot of new changes / technology and I am embracing it.
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Got dtf printing working with chinese ink on my old epson 4880. My observations
1. Better durability than dtg, not as good as screen printing.
2. White isnt as white as a normal screen print.
3. Colour profiling needs to be done. Colours arent accurate.
4. Cant do floaters like dtg. Needs to lay down ink for the adhesive to stick.
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I see that OpenDTG has a unit and supplies. $2500 for the printer, $150 for inks, and I found this discussion on their site... https://www.opendtg.com/topic/2010-p600-dtf-printer/ (https://www.opendtg.com/topic/2010-p600-dtf-printer/)
Steve
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I received my sample kit fro Supacolor yesterday. Without doing a wash test yet, I have to say I’m impressed with the vibrancy and feel compared to other transfers I’ve dealt with. The wash test is next.
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one of the issues that was brought to my attention, is that right now, inks are not 100% compatible with the print heads. Meaning print heads may degrade faster.
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The L1800 looks to be the same as the 1430 but does not print 13x19 sheets, I do like the ink tanks which I think makes a difference in the two printers. This could be somewhat of a game changer in doing 1 or two pieces full color for dark color shirts.
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But why is it being called DTF? That's the most important question.
It's not Direct to Fabric.
First Discharge, then F'N Ink, now DTF, aka Down To F*ck, what double entendre is next?
I call them "Athletic Transfers" or "Waterbase Transfers" to customers since "Transfer" has a bad connotation. Then I say it's the same style that Nike and Adidas use.
Anyhow, someone had to say it eventually, I'm Down To F*ck with these, but it's a weird naming and doesn't even make sense.
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But why is it being called DTF? That's the most important question.
It's not Direct to Fabric.
First Discharge, then F'N Ink, now DTF, aka Down To F*ck, what double entendre is next?
I call them "Athletic Transfers" or "Waterbase Transfers" to customers since "Transfer" has a bad connotation. Then I say it's the same style that Nike and Adidas use.
Anyhow, someone had to say it eventually, I'm Down To F*ck with these, but it's a weird naming and doesn't even make sense.
Direct Transfer Film
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I got my samples yesterday from Supacolor, and I must say, I'm very impressed. I don't think I'd want a full chest print much, but for left fronts, aprons, etc., they should be very good. I have one customer who runs an online uniform company, and 90% of the orders have used cad-cuts from Transfer Express. No more white borders...
Steve
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I got my samples yesterday from Supacolor, and I must say, I'm very impressed. I don't think I'd want a full chest print much, but for left fronts, aprons, etc., they should be very good. I have one customer who runs an online uniform company, and 90% of the orders have used cad-cuts from Transfer Express. No more white borders...
Steve
I also got my samples, definitely not bad at all. I would say since they use a flat rate $15 2nd day air ship it makes them viable even for us on the East Coast. I placed one order with them just to test the waters on the process.
I am also testing stuff from Apex
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just bringing this up again - I bought all the DTF supplies and ran my first prints today. This is an absolute game changer. Simple one off / replacement shirts and hat transfers - absolutely amazing. It doesn't feel bad at all either, not like a solvent printed transfer. I'm going to do a few more test on it but I think the DTF stuff is a winner. way easier to deal with than a DTG....It sticks to leather if anyone is interested in that.
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just bringing this up again - I bought all the DTF supplies and ran my first prints today. This is an absolute game changer. Simple one off / replacement shirts and hat transfers - absolutely amazing. It doesn't feel bad at all either, not like a solvent printed transfer. I'm going to do a few more test on it but I think the DTF stuff is a winner. way easier to deal with than a DTG....It sticks to leather if anyone is interested in that.
what machine did you get?
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I picked up a 1430 off ebay to see if this was going to work. So far it's proving itself and I am beyond impressed with this set up...
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Not sure this video shows anything relevant to the subjects in this thread, it is something I can across on YT. Yes it one of those Youtubers that seems to think screaming yelling, crazy camera changes makes a video enjoyable (me it makes my stress level rise) But I watched anyways to see the system. By time I was done all I could think is wow that is a lot of freaking steps to take just to get one transfer from the printer to a shirt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s)
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I picked up a 1430 off ebay to see if this was going to work. So far it's proving itself and I am beyond impressed with this set up...
Where did you find instructions to alter the 1430? With the L1800 (painfully slow) and P600 it seems to be as simple as removing the pizza wheels, and making a flat table for the film to slide out onto so it doesn't buckle and cause a head strike. Kothari RIP?
Steve
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Where did you get the supplies?
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Not sure this video shows anything relevant to the subjects in this thread, it is something I can across on YT. Yes it one of those Youtubers that seems to think screaming yelling, crazy camera changes makes a video enjoyable (me it makes my stress level rise) But I watched anyways to see the system. By time I was done all I could think is wow that is a lot of freaking steps to take just to get one transfer from the printer to a shirt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s)
no good. Lasers use resin which feels terrible -in my opinion- and they crack since it's basically thin solid plastic.
Where did you find instructions to alter the 1430? With the L1800 (painfully slow) and P600 it seems to be as simple as removing the pizza wheels, and making a flat table for the film to slide out onto so it doesn't buckle and cause a head strike. Kothari RIP?
Steve
no mods needed! All I did was attached a bulk ink system I got off the Bay and filled'r up with the inks. I bought Acrorip too, which I know you can get free but I'm not into modifying computer systems.
Where did you get the supplies?
This set I picked up from Kingdom T Shirts - just for proof of concept. I am going to try and import some of these inks and papers myself to bring the costs down even further. I've run a few more pages today and again, I am beyond thrilled with the results. The problems we were having is with online stores. We would offer a wide variety of garments, but only sell one hat. Or have to replace an item because Wanda doesn't fit in the Small she ordered, she needs a friggen 3X..... Or strange items with weird placements, in multi color. So far this is looking to be the way to roll for us vs the DTG....costs are not even CLOSE to a dtg print either...
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dtf?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s)
no good. Lasers use resin which feels terrible
This set I picked up from Kingdom T Shirts - just for proof of concept. I am going to try and import some of these inks and papers myself to bring the costs down even further. I've run a few more pages today and again, I am beyond thrilled with the results.
I agree with the laser toner, I got a sample because it was basically what DTF (we calling it that for real? haha) is, but pre existed to this system. The transfers look so ameraturish I wouldn't even recommend for a hat.
Can you post some photos of your results?
What does it take for the rip settings to make it so that it prints the white base?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s)
no good. Lasers use resin which feels terrible
This set I picked up from Kingdom T Shirts - just for proof of concept. I am going to try and import some of these inks and papers myself to bring the costs down even further. I've run a few more pages today and again, I am beyond thrilled with the results.
I agree with the laser toner, I got a sample because it was basically what DTF (we calling it that for real? haha) is, but pre existed to this system. The transfers look so ameraturish I wouldn't even recommend for a hat.
Can you post some photos of your results?
What does it take for the rip settings to make it so that it prints the white base?
PM me your address, I'll mail you a couple transfers to try for yourself.
The biggest issue at the moment with my set up is the rip, AcroRip 9 - it sucks. You need a printer with a minimum of 6 colors and you designate 2 for white. You set it up in the rip to print YKWWMC, so in one pass it will print the color, then the white right on top. Apparently Cadlink is working on a rip for this type of printing but I don't think it will work with my 1430, so I may have to buy something more legit... I guess there are other rips out there but I'm not finding much...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzB3XrzFE4w&t=691s)
no good. Lasers use resin which feels terrible
This set I picked up from Kingdom T Shirts - just for proof of concept. I am going to try and import some of these inks and papers myself to bring the costs down even further. I've run a few more pages today and again, I am beyond thrilled with the results.
I agree with the laser toner, I got a sample because it was basically what DTF (we calling it that for real? haha) is, but pre existed to this system. The transfers look so ameraturish I wouldn't even recommend for a hat.
Can you post some photos of your results?
What does it take for the rip settings to make it so that it prints the white base?
PM me your address, I'll mail you a couple transfers to try for yourself.
The biggest issue at the moment with my set up is the rip, AcroRip 9 - it sucks. You need a printer with a minimum of 6 colors and you designate 2 for white. You set it up in the rip to print YKWWMC, so in one pass it will print the color, then the white right on top. Apparently Cadlink is working on a rip for this type of printing but I don't think it will work with my 1430, so I may have to buy something more legit... I guess there are other rips out there but I'm not finding much...
Kothari, but $999.00... I'm reading into this, as scattered as the info is, I'm seeing that the white carts will go where the Light Magenta and Light Cyan go, with the RiP determining the print order, but it's still sketchy to me. I see on a P600 there are 4 white carts, and they are supposedly much faster than the L1800 units being sold out there.
Steve
Steve
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little update from my trials, so far we have been successful with leather and acrylic knit hats. Time and temp are important, you have to go fast and light pressure on the acrylic but it does work better than screened transfers. Messing with the settings in Acro rip, I was able to achieve a very nice opaque white. Wash testing has been great, nothing has failed after repeated washings.
I ordered a new epson since we are using this almost daily now, just need to nail down the RIP issues. As far as costs, I'm still tweaking the settings but it's looking like around 1.00 per sheet 12x17, printed, powdered and the sheet of film... to me that's not bad at all, especially when you can go 6 up or more on hat designs...
if anyone goes this route, I'd say the 1400/1430 is a little slow, so maybe search out something faster... So far so good!
I do have a Mod 1 DTG for sale - $2k if anyone wants it. ;D
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How is the white ink? Does it settle in the lines at all?
Are there any edges to the print or do they look nice like DTG?
What are the cons?
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How is the white ink? Does it settle in the lines at all?
Are there any edges to the print or do they look nice like DTG?
What are the cons?
the whites are coming out real nice, I played with the rip and went rouge on the "recommended settings" and cranked it up to 100 and they are super opaque. The edges- that's the bitch of it. You can not "fade" into a shirt. Hard edges only. However -with the proper RIP this can be done, I just need to find it. At this point, I don't care what it costs, I need it. AcroRip really sucks as far as color controls but it's better than nothing.
White does not dry up or settle -at all- I do a head cleaning in the morning but I haven't really needed to, kind of a force of habit. When I get the new printer, I'll let the 1430 sit a week and see if it dries up. Longest I've gone is 3 days and it's been fine. Been using it every day for hat transfers and odd stuff, so it's getting worked.
Biggest downfall, is the rip. If I can get away from the hard edges, I'd be set with this system. Still learning though - but no where near as much as DTG.
I'll ship you some stuff in the next week or so, see what you think of it.
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Thanks for the update this is exciting news to hear. You are getting your inks/paper from Kingdom?
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Thanks for the update this is exciting news to hear. You are getting your inks/paper from Kingdom?
no, actually I imported supplies off Alibaba, right from the manufacturer. Here's my costs breakdown so far:
Kingdom supplies / including shipping:
Ink =4.80oz
Powder = 37.00/LB
Paper =2.00/sheet A3
Imported:
Ink = 1.94oz
Powder = 15.00/LB
Paper= .62/sheet A3
I still need to calculate my ink usage, which is rather difficult because I keep changing the settings :o so I don't really know the yield per ounce but I'll just get close.
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The only thing that I know of that turns me off about either DTG or DTF is that most DTG rips won’t print fades to the shirt or undresses black. Same for DTF that I can see. So that’s a no for me.
I really think you can do your own custom underbase for all DTG’s. I mean, I did with my T-Jet way back when they first came out...and it seems people haven’t caught on to the idea of doing your own custom base that knocks out to the shirt and doesn’t put white under black. Sure, you do that manually, but it’s pretty easy.
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How is the white ink? Does it settle in the lines at all?
Are there any edges to the print or do they look nice like DTG?
What are the cons?
however -with the proper RIP this can be done, I just need to find it. At this point, I don't care what it costs, I need it. AcroRip really sucks as far as color controls but it's better than nothing.
Biggest downfall, is the rip. If I can get away from the hard edges, I'd be set with this system. Still learning though - but no where near as much as DTG.
I've seen Kothari RIP recommended for DTF, but I know nothing about it -or- DTF, for that matter
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We've ordered paper for DTF and are excited to test this. I've seen stuff printed on the Brother GTX (same system we use) and that'll be my plan to print these. If it doesn't go well I'll have to look into another system.
We've been having a bad time printing on masks and left chests, would love a different option than HTV or plastisol transfers
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little update from my trials, so far we have been successful with leather and acrylic knit hats. Time and temp are important, you have to go fast and light pressure on the acrylic but it does work better than screened transfers. Messing with the settings in Acro rip, I was able to achieve a very nice opaque white. Wash testing has been great, nothing has failed after repeated washings.
I ordered a printed sheet from kingdomdtf.com (http://kingdomdtf.com) on November 13th https://kingdomtshirt.com/15463963/orders/5717218454ab9a48081d08eb63c4370e (https://kingdomtshirt.com/15463963/orders/5717218454ab9a48081d08eb63c4370e). $7.99 for a 11.75" x 16.5" sheet and $3.43 for shipping. I received the order on November 30th, as it didn't ship until November 23rd.
In ordering the sheet here https://i.imgur.com/DLYqjcy.png (https://i.imgur.com/DLYqjcy.png) I sent the image as a PDF, and then later they requested to resend as a PNG with no background. However when I got the transfers, anything 100% white was not printed at all, so I requested a reprint but haven't really gotten a confirmation if that would happen or if it has shipped. As well as I requested the samples they post on instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/CGbpb7kHvGi/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CGbpb7kHvGi/) to be included as well, after being disregarded to have them sent prior to ordering via instagram messenger. I also sent the same photos I posted here asking for guidance at better results but have not gotten a reply.
Ok, so let's get down to the results, first off I really, really want this to work, for inside neck labels, and transfers for hats and other short run, high color images, to have this in-house would be great if the quality was up to par. However a more industrial option on roll prints would be more ideal maybe @DonR's unit is more industrial. As well as, you are only as good as your support, and from limited dealings with Kingdom DTF I wouldn't buy equipment from them.
I applied the transfers first starting with Black garments with their suggested application of 325 F, 15 seconds, Medium - Firm Pressure (around 60psi). Cold Peel, then a post press of 5-10 seconds with nothing noted for if you should have teflon, heat transfer paper, PET for this process. In feel and look, I'd say that if the quality was better for application, it feels a little heavier than a SUPACOLOR transfer, is a little less shiny, and a bit more plastic than an Apex transfer. However, the excess glue, and the glue around the border of the transfers is a killer, as well as small details that don't get enough white behind them do not transfer well, and especially not on a dark garment.
You can see more photos here https://imgur.com/a/Vs8RDqn (https://imgur.com/a/Vs8RDqn).
Apologies if I'm rambling, I posted this earlier and it didn't make it online, so I'm being more brief this time around. @Homer, post some photos of your results!
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zanegun08, I will be making an announcement next week. I think you will be very happy with what we have coming...
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There isn't a reason for them not to have at least halftone fades, unless the powder is too big to sit on small dots. Even a 55lpi or 45 lpi fade to shirt would be impressive.
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There isn't a reason for them not to have at least halftone fades, unless the powder is too big to sit on small dots. Even a 55lpi or 45 lpi fade to shirt would be impressive.
I believe we would have to create our art to look like halftones, as the RIP for color does not print out halftones, but "dots" in the printer sense, 720 x whatever. I would think making bitmap tiffs in Photoshop then importing them into the final image to be save a .png? Just a guess...
Steve
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Though hardly an especially elegant solution, fades could be done in a similar method that print and cut folks are stuck with, adding a contour of the shirt color.
As I said, not a very elegant solution, but another arrow in our quiver.
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I believe we would have to create our art to look like halftones, as the RIP for color does not print out halftones, but "dots" in the printer sense, 720 x whatever. I would think making bitmap tiffs in Photoshop then importing them into the final image to be save a .png? Just a guess...
It's possible, I've had these made overseas, it's a large back print, and I don't know the limitations on LPI, but I made halftones for the drop shadow on this, the same could be done for colors. However I don't really suggest DTF or Transfers for large prints, the reason we did this one was a large super detailed print going on a lower number of hoodies, so soft hand isn't as much as a concern, as well as it's an 80's vibe anyhow which transfers are suited for. I didn't feel confident in printing this with good results, so went transfer route for this one.
But correct, you can turn your image to greyscale, make a bitmap with the gradients, and then use that to mask a full color image for DTF, it's not a difficult process, just an extra step before printing. The dots would need to be large enough to have white behind them otherwise they just turn to black or garment color if going on dark. Also the glue around the edges of halftones may be not a great look depending on your taste. However what you think looks great I may not and vice versa.
But I think that a 35 LPI or something may work decent in some cases to blend to the garment, like Frog said, you could also do garment color but that is yucky! But it may work for you and your customer as their bar for quality may be different.
I think you will be very happy with what we have coming...
When you are ready, maybe I can send you the same file to have you print that I sent to Kingdom DTF, can / will pay for a sample.
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I'm with Steve doing a bitmap convert, might take a few extra steps, worth the try anyway
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Yes, that's what I was trying to describe.
Steve
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So one thing I can't find an answer to is can the prints stack up in the printer? Or do you have to immediately have to pull the sheets to powder them?
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So one thing I can't find an answer to is can the prints stack up in the printer? Or do you have to immediately have to pull the sheets to powder them?
On these little hokey printers, I would say you have to pull each sheet and powder as the next sheet would smear the previous. My guess, so someone please prove me wrong. However they may be able to be stacked after powdering and before being cured similar to how you can do with plastisol transfers if you are gentle.
But on a more industrial setup, this is how it can be done https://www.facebook.com/allen.lau.359126/videos/343915286982120 (https://www.facebook.com/allen.lau.359126/videos/343915286982120) Hopefully DonR's version is more like that.
I liken the table top versions to more like an OKI Toner printer, may be fine for selling bootleg items on Etsy to soccer moms.
But fingers crossed this method keeps improving
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I've got the desktop model (L1800) and you can't stack them as they come out since the ink is still wet, I'm still messing around with it and haven't tried stacking them after the have the powder on them yet.
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No stacking, the powder needs to be set or it smears. You can print a film and let it sit, you don't need to powder right away. we haven't seen this glue issue before, you need to flick the paper, really give it a good smack to get the excess off, could be the film to, I have two different kinds and one is bit more static cling than the other. I'm going to try white rip, see if it can do it. I hate band-aids.
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There isn't a reason for them not to have at least halftone fades, unless the powder is too big to sit on small dots. Even a 55lpi or 45 lpi fade to shirt would be impressive.
I believe we would have to create our art to look like halftones, as the RIP for color does not print out halftones, but "dots" in the printer sense, 720 x whatever. I would think making bitmap tiffs in Photoshop then importing them into the final image to be save a .png? Just a guess...
Steve
You're onto something. This is what I did for DTG bases back in the day. AND, it was another way to help make a DTG look more like a screen print. The other thing that might be even better is to not do halftones, but to do diffusion dithered bitmaps. Michelle Moxley started doing this for the Digital squeegee after I mentioned it on a thread. She already knew about the process from her past experiences) and made it turn out really well for those Digital squeegee prints.
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So one thing I can't find an answer to is can the prints stack up in the printer? Or do you have to immediately have to pull the sheets to powder them?
On these little hokey printers, I would say you have to pull each sheet and powder as the next sheet would smear the previous. My guess, so someone please prove me wrong. However they may be able to be stacked after powdering and before being cured similar to how you can do with plastisol transfers if you are gentle.
But on a more industrial setup, this is how it can be done https://www.facebook.com/allen.lau.359126/videos/343915286982120 (https://www.facebook.com/allen.lau.359126/videos/343915286982120) Hopefully DonR's version is more like that.
I liken the table top versions to more like an OKI Toner printer, may be fine for selling bootleg items on Etsy to soccer moms.
But fingers crossed this method keeps improving
when you're screen printing these, and you're using powder, once the powder hits the ink, you can stack sheets, without them being cured.
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Even if they made a small unit that auto powdered and gelled the inks it would be a huge time saver. I don't like the idea of having to clear each sheet. I guess you could time the first one and set a phone reminder to pull it when it's done and just keep making copies that way.
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I will be making an announcement next week.
Any updates? Counting on your post for my Christmas Present :)
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Zanegun08, We are waiting to get our process fully developed. Everything this year has taken more time then expected. We will be starting a "Trade Only" automated service to print DTF transfers right after the New Year. This service will give you high quality transfers at an amazing low price and in most cases transfers will ship to you the same day the order is placed. Sorry, if this is not the Christmas present you are hoping for. However, going this route first will help give us the knowledge how to support the machines and this process. It will also allow you to test how the transfers will work for you.
Moderator, if not allowed please delete.
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Everything is finally ready to go! If interested in getting DTF samples, go to www.tprnt.com (http://www.tprnt.com) and sign up for an account.
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Sweet. Thank you for posting Don
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Everything is finally ready to go!
I signed up and placed a sample order with my artwork.
Site is easy to use, pricing seems equitable and the size of transfers is in no way limiting!
Small - 11" x 12.50"
Medium - 22.50" x 12.50"
Large - 22.50" x 25.00"
There is a base fee which I assume covers shipping / administration, and then the cost per transfer on top of that so if you can batch orders together it makes the most sense.
You can easily make an account to see pricing.
At the large size, if 3" x 3" or less for interior branding transfers which could be full color, the per unit cost is 17 cents not including base cost, but if the machine can produce small details for inside neck labels it could be really viable for that process which is what I'm most interested in this for.
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Zane - Thanks for the review.
You can make smaller text in white. The samples I sent you have text size down to 6pt. The underbase on color text is choked in about 2 pixels, so very small text can get lost.
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I was just looking over the site, and signed up, and I'm looking forward to having an actual job to send so I can try it out. Though the art requirements don't state it, I'm assuming we need to flop the image, yes?
Steve
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Don't mirror your image, send it how you want it produced, they will handle mirroring / ripping / printing
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Zane are you looking for a job... LOL
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Just got the samples in.. going to try them out later.
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Just got the samples in.. going to try them out later.
Same here, I noticed the all white sample is, well, all white, but the colored ones seem to have a pink adhesive, interesting...
Steve
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The adhesive is the same. It turns clear when it is melted and picks up some of the ink color. So on the all white sample, the adhesive looks white. On the color samples, it looks like it turns the color of the image. It looks pink because the magenta is picked up a little more then the other colors. Therefore, it looks a little pink even if the color on the front is black. Don't worry, go ahead and press as instructed on the transfers...
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The adhesive is the same. It turns clear when it is melted and picks up some of the ink color. So on the all white sample, the adhesive looks white. On the color samples, it looks like it turns the color of the image. It looks pink because the magenta is picked up a little more then the other colors. Therefore, it looks a little pink even if the color on the front is black. Don't worry, go ahead and press as instructed on the transfers...
I'm sure it's fine, I was just curious, I'll be checking them out today.
Steve
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tprnt.com - This cant be good, must pretty significant to shut down. Hope they get up and running soon. Anyone know how long they have been closed?
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who is that
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Hey Eric - tprnt.com
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tprnt.com - This cant be good, must pretty significant to shut down. Hope they get up and running soon. Anyone know how long they have been closed?
It seemed to have happened in-between taking an order from me on the 25th and a few days later.
Remember that this is what sunk a bunch of folks with the early Fast T-Jets, though most of them were completely dependent on their one machine. I get the impression, that this is just another branch of Don's business, and am pretty sure that one way or another, it will get ironed out. This new stuff always seems to have some teething issues.
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Hey we have an order in of logo stuff to test on different substrates for our online merch stores. He said they are down for a little bit but I'm sure they will be back up and running in a few weeks. Please remember they are an early adapter of this tech and they are going through growing pains for us all as there is no US support or supplier as far as I know.
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Thanks for all of your concern. Going live put too much stress on the equipment that had been working great during testing. First the plastic gear that drives the capping station up and down broke. That has led to several problems. We are switching things out to be much beefier and able to run full time in a production environment. We are also getting a 2nd duplicate system for additional capacity (700 square feet per hour) and back up. The fabrication of the new parts and equipment plus shipping, customs, setup, and testing will keep us down for four to five more weeks.
We made the decision to do this right and take the hit now because I did not want to be the "unreliable company" Sorry, if the message on the website is a bit strong. When it was less in your face, people continued to place orders that I could not currently fill.
You will love DTF transfers and I appreciate your patience.
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Just did a little under a hundred DTF transfers today on our L1800, so far no clogs in the print heads, white ink and colors look great, now feeding film has been a little bit of a pain in the booty.
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Thanks for update Don and hope the upgrades go smoothly. LMK when we have the green light i have orders for you.
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His samples were very nice, and I had an order in that had to be cancelled due to the breakdown. Communication was great, so I simply put it out to another vendor, but will be more than glad to order once they get back up and running. The nonrestrictive options are what draw me there.
Steve
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His samples were very nice, and I had an order in that had to be cancelled due to the breakdown. Communication was great, so I simply put it out to another vendor, but will be more than glad to order once they get back up and running. The nonrestrictive options are what draw me there.
Steve
What other vendor? I have a small order and I need some transfers.
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What other vendor? I have a small order and I need some transfers.
https://supacolor.com (https://supacolor.com)
https://www.apextransfers.com/ultra-ink.php (https://www.apextransfers.com/ultra-ink.php) - gang sheets
https://www.transferexpress.com/heat-applied-transfers/full-color-transfers (https://www.transferexpress.com/heat-applied-transfers/full-color-transfers)
Supacolor is the easiest and has a 20 piece minimum
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His samples were very nice, and I had an order in that had to be cancelled due to the breakdown. Communication was great, so I simply put it out to another vendor, but will be more than glad to order once they get back up and running. The nonrestrictive options are what draw me there.
Steve
What other vendor? I have a small order and I need some transfers.
I went with Transfer Express' UltraColor. We also just did nylon bags with transfers from Supacolor. I've been meaning to check out Apex, but haven't had a chance just yet.
Steve
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No others seem as good of a fit for the smallish jobs I needed done. Happy that one current client with a job on hold has the patience of Job.
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I just received a sample from a supplier , it seems similar to dtf but not the same . Its on a mylar carrier sheet but instead of the pebbly adhesive white back similar to Versatrans it has a smooth almost silicone feel ?. It also is more supple than the Versatrans ones I have done in the past . Does anyone know what version this might be the salesman was pretty secretive?
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I just received a sample from a supplier , it seems similar to dtf but not the same . Its on a mylar carrier sheet but instead of the pebbly adhesive white back similar to Versatrans it has a smooth almost silicone feel ?. It also is more supple than the Versatrans ones I have done in the past . Does anyone know what version this might be the salesman was pretty secretive?
This may be digitally printed, and have screen printed adhesive bases.
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Side note - anyone doing DTF in house, One Stroke has a BLACK transfer powder to prevent dye migration....we're crushing it with DTF, we use it every day for our online stores...
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Side note - anyone doing DTF in house, One Stroke has a BLACK transfer powder to prevent dye migration....we're crushing it with DTF, we use it every day for our online stores...
Are you guys seeing much dye migration? The usual suspects?
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Side note - anyone doing DTF in house, One Stroke has a BLACK transfer powder to prevent dye migration....we're crushing it with DTF, we use it every day for our online stores...
Are you guys seeing much dye migration? The usual suspects?
With the proper rip setting no issues with bleeding, without the proper settings -somewhat. I'm going to sample powders next since my overseas source will no longer ship it ::)
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Side note - anyone doing DTF in house, One Stroke has a BLACK transfer powder to prevent dye migration....we're crushing it with DTF, we use it every day for our online stores...
I am guessing this is made for normal (screen printed) transfers... I did not see it on their site. Would you mind sending a link?
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I’m concerned for the hand still. Is anyone getting any samples that really feel “soft”? I imagine it can’t get as soft as a screen print on high mesh...or even sublimation on light garments. Still a hand? But a bit better than the DTG right?
I got some sample sin from a supplier but yea, they felt not bad, but still...a tad like transfers. I guess Is can’t ask for more than that.
I am seeing a few guys who are art savvy that do DTF be able to get some really good looking fine detail halftone images us the DTF. I mean more like 55-66 lpi maybe. And if you can do the 65lpi, you can do the stochastic.
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The sample they sent me wasn't a solid background and didn't feel too bad and I was impressed. During Christmas, a customer of mine ordered just 13 shirts with seven color art with a solid background on the front. I ordered the dtf, pressed and sent. He complained saying they felt cheap. Needless to say, after spending the $$ on the 20 minimum of dtf, I still setup the seven color print on press, printed and resent because he's a great customer.
DTF has it's place but not for solid backgrounds imo.
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I’m concerned for the hand still. Is anyone getting any samples that really feel “soft”? I imagine it can’t get as soft as a screen print on high mesh...or even sublimation on light garments. Still a hand? But a bit better than the DTG right?
I got some sample sin from a supplier but yea, they felt not bad, but still...a tad like transfers. I guess Is can’t ask for more than that.
I am seeing a few guys who are art savvy that do DTF be able to get some really good looking fine detail halftone images us the DTF. I mean more like 55-66 lpi maybe. And if you can do the 65lpi, you can do the stochastic.
Hey Dan I think both DTF and DTG are great for different substrates and different shops. We use both DTG for shirts and hoodies and DTF is great for multicolor truckers, gym shorts, koozies and stuff like that. Two very different hands but a pair of Gildan poly gym shorts is very different from a Gildan Ultra Cotton tee. Your customer base will have a lot to do with what you decide to do with DTF. But it is very smooth
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I’m concerned for the hand still. Is anyone getting any samples that really feel “soft”? I imagine it can’t get as soft as a screen print on high mesh...or even sublimation on light garments. Still a hand? But a bit better than the DTG right?
I got some sample sin from a supplier but yea, they felt not bad, but still...a tad like transfers. I guess Is can’t ask for more than that.
I am seeing a few guys who are art savvy that do DTF be able to get some really good looking fine detail halftone images us the DTF. I mean more like 55-66 lpi maybe. And if you can do the 65lpi, you can do the stochastic.
Hey Dan I think both DTF and DTG are great for different substrates and different shops. We use both DTG for shirts and hoodies and DTF is great for multicolor truckers, gym shorts, koozies and stuff like that. Two very different hands but a pair of Gildan poly gym shorts is very different from a Gildan Ultra Cotton tee. Your customer base will have a lot to do with what you decide to do with DTF. But it is very smooth
and honestly NO ONE CARES except for screen printers.
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On the Supacolor instagram they have all these people doing full images for shirts https://www.instagram.com/supacolor/ (https://www.instagram.com/supacolor/)
The reason is these aren't screen printers doing these, they are people who bought a heat press off Ebay and started a business. No hate on them but DTF transfers feel gross as a full size application on a soft shirt in my opinion.
Like Brandon said DTF is a great additional tool for the right job, much better than printed vinyl as you don't have to add borders and no weeding. However in my opinion should only be reserved for certain images, small images, high color / low coverage or for hats, totes, or certain substrates.
It's not replacing printing or DTG anytime soon as to me it doesn't feel much better than a vinyl transfer, just that you don't have to weed and they last longer than our screen printed transfers (which we could do better)
It's a great tool, I have orders with both Apex and Supacolor right now, all for headwear though. But at the end of the day it's still just a transfer and you aren't gonna win any awards with them, but will get you paid.
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I got some sample sin from a supplier but yea, they felt not bad, but still...a tad like transfers.
and honestly NO ONE CARES except for screen printers.
[/quote]
I'd like to think on a subconscious level people know or care but I'm probably being optimistic there. Like if someone had the choice between the two at retail they'd probably pick a screen printed version over a DTF transfer as the screen print should / could feel better.
I really want a setup for inside neck labels only to print in house, but haven't found the right match yet.
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[quote ]
and honestly NO ONE CARES except for screen printers.
[/quote]
With everything on demand now and everyone's attention span shorter than a dog fart yes, I agree most people do not care. Just how much and I need it halfway around the world by tomorrow if not today
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It’s odd to me. (We are going to get into an even more different discussion) but why then do people even do waterbase printing (of not for the hand). From what I understand, it’s more of a loan than plastisol, and overall, even more costly to complete an order in comparison. So if the customer may not care than much about the hand then why do waterbase? I thought that the hand was the main reason.
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While there is some sarcasm with us we do have a ton of customers that will reject any non water base printing on garments. When it comes to koozies and hats they dont care. But we also have customers that do not care and just need speed and price. That seems to be the majority of the world and wear DTG comes in perfect. For us and web stores. But every shop is different
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agreed - it has its place for sure, but almost nobody gives a rip about the feel, they just their items NOW. Waterbase is probably called for on some occasions because the buzzwords "earth friendly" can get tossed in... I think it feels like a crinkle, plastic-ish on a large print, not the best for solid images. We are finding the best uses are for hats, leather patches and odd placement designs like the side for a hood, on pocket prints, koozies, face masks, almost anything we can put under a heat press, really. We ran 24 Carhartt jackets and rain coats a while back, they turned out way better than a screen print if you ask me. Reg was super tight and it was SOOO EASY to do.. Charged a mint and everyone was happy. I even made a wooden sign with this stuff, it sticks great....I like to do it in house so I have control on time frames. We toss in samples / up sell items to some larger customers and it's an amazing addition. Saves a boat load of work for online stores when 1 hat sells too.
Balloon - It wasn't One Stroke, I asked my rep - my mistake - It was Kingdom, he had black powder. Seems like a lot of the dtf dealers are selling it too.
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Are you guys modifying your own printers? Or buying them ready to go?
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Question, can you mix the black and white powders to make a gray? Or would that not have enough bleed resistance?
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Question, can you mix the black and white powders to make a gray? Or would that not have enough bleed resistance?
worlds collide, kittens have puppies, hot snow falls up...
When I have a moment to test out all the powders, I'll let you know. Apparently different powders give a different hand, so we'll see.
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Question, can you mix the black and white powders to make a gray? Or would that not have enough bleed resistance?
worlds collide, kittens have puppies, hot snow falls up...
When I have a moment to test out all the powders, I'll let you know. Apparently different powders give a different hand, so we'll see.
So it's like crossing the streams.
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Is everyone using their own DIY style printers or has anyone bought/tried the converted printers being sold online? I want to add one of these soon but wasn't sure if there was a go to brand to get?
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Is everyone using their own DIY style printers or has anyone bought/tried the converted printers being sold online? I want to add one of these soon but wasn't sure if there was a go to brand to get?
I am working on getting one of these:
http://ftgdirect.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=50 (http://ftgdirect.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=50)
and
http://ftgdirect.com/FTG%20textile%20inks,%20direct%20to%20film%20ink,%20DTF%20printer%20ink (http://ftgdirect.com/FTG%20textile%20inks,%20direct%20to%20film%20ink,%20DTF%20printer%20ink)
It's not a large buy-in and the footprint is pretty small. They aren't the best at responding, and they said they had a shipment arriving in about a week.
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I used an Ebay'd 1400, 1430 and now I have an L1800 I got from China, the 1430 and 1400 with refill tanks worked great but the print heads aren't made for the latex type inks so they were giving me fits after a few months. The L1800 is SLOW so Id' look at other options. I found a list of the most DTF conversion friendly printers but it's on my pc at home, be aware of the pizza wheel removal and the ink carts, it needs to be a minimum of a 6 color printer. I think the P400, P600 and P900 were printers to look for.... I have a brand new in the box L1800 6 color printer if anyone wants it, It's an A4 paper size though... I screwed up ::)
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My wife has been watching regarding the DTF world. She listens to Todd Downing a lot. He bought a good printer and converted it. There was a lot of talk about that...and he was reporting on his experiences.
Last I heard, he has had some trouble, (but not as much as many others). I hear that the consensus is “converting” is not a good choice and not recommended unless you really know what you are doing and research well...and even then will still have some issues. We are sticklers for going with a tried and true option. We wait to hear what others are experiencing and then go with a highly recommended brand versus creating trouble for ourselves. We have a sublimation printer, an older shirt heat press, and a new Fusion IQ hat press...and may get the DTF printer as well but really, I’m pretty happy with ordering the transfers from someone else and just applying. :)
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No such thing as a DTF printer, they are ALL conversions... If you don't like the tinkering / trial and error of testing ripping your hair out, just order the transfers ;D You'll be further ahead... I like to do things the hard way
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No such thing as a DTF printer, they are ALL conversions... If you don't like the tinkering / trial and error of testing ripping your hair out, just order the transfers ;D You'll be further ahead... I like to do things the hard way
While this is true, some companies go a lot further in their conversions.
Sonny has one that has an onboard heater that gels the ink so it can lay down the prints faster. It's a big 24" model from these folks:
http://alldtg.com/page/products/dtf (http://alldtg.com/page/products/dtf)
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I bought the L1800 converted it myself and yep it's slow on large prints, but I try to keep print size down and this machine is for 1 to 12 maybe 15 shirts max, I don't want to screen print high color low volume orders and customers don't like to pay for it either. Buying the really nice DTF setup with the works only works for me if I was going full transfers, my small setup is what it is, to help fill those small high color or one day turn around job, and we got samples so they can feel a large print and small print. Far as powder goes I've use our regular heat transfer powder on certain prints with very small detail and it works just fine and the hand feels just a bite different, the difference is the grain where the DTF powder I ordered is grainy and the regular heat press powder is more like baby powder very fine, gotta pick your battles on decorating now a days.
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Question, can you mix the black and white powders to make a gray? Or would that not have enough bleed resistance?
worlds collide, kittens have puppies, hot snow falls up...
When I have a moment to test out all the powders, I'll let you know. Apparently different powders give a different hand, so we'll see.
So it's like crossing the streams.
Even further back, it reminded me of Firesign Theatre. "...Spiders jamming the police lock, and I just know my wife is sleeping with the bees!"
Steve
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It’s odd to me. (We are going to get into an even more different discussion) but why then do people even do waterbase printing (of not for the hand). From what I understand, it’s more of a loan than plastisol, and overall, even more costly to complete an order in comparison. So if the customer may not care than much about the hand then why do waterbase? I thought that the hand was the main reason.
don't get me wrong. there are plenty of customers that do care. but the majority of focus are price driven. Not quality driven. We are lucky we get to work with quality driven clients.