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Computers and Software => Separation Programs => Topic started by: Prince Art on March 30, 2018, 12:27:47 AM

Title: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Prince Art on March 30, 2018, 12:27:47 AM
First off, I recently downloaded the UltraSeps trial, so this is a noob question. Here goes:

I'm working with a file where one of the main colors in the design is supposed to NOT print, but rather let the shirt show through. Red shirt, red design elements. Art was supplied with the red intact in the design file. So, I'm wondering if there's a way to deal with this so that the channels for the other colors will be generated so that they interact with each other and the "shirt red" properly; and most importantly, so that the underbase will be generated properly.

If it helps to know: the art was originally designed to be a converted to an Index print. Colors would be red, which would be dropped out; then blue, black, and white. The design approach didn't take into account the need for a UB. It's not a broad spectrum of colors we're dealing with. But we need to make sure the UB is correct for the blue, which includes some tonal variation/gradients, but needs to print with only one blue ink.

Any insights? I've looked over the UltraSeps documentation, and didn't find this particular scenario addressed.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Doug S on March 30, 2018, 10:52:58 AM
Are you asking how to remove the red part of the ub to let the shirt show through?
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Prince Art on March 30, 2018, 11:10:54 AM
Essentially, yes. I've added a snip of the art to the top post to show what I'm talking about. Intended print colors are white UB, black, blue 2728, white HL. Red is toned by the black overprint, blue is toned by the white UB (and potentially black on top or black beneath). But the interplay between all the colors in the transparent/gradient areas has me concerned.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Doug S on March 30, 2018, 12:38:18 PM
I'll get you the answer in a minute
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Doug S on March 30, 2018, 01:40:42 PM
call me @ 18702228670.  I keep getting an error when I try to reply anything lengthy
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Frog on March 30, 2018, 03:19:08 PM
call me @ 18702228670.  I keep getting an error when I try to reply anything lengthy
could you perhaps post a screen shot of this error?
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Doug S on March 30, 2018, 04:42:33 PM
Frog, here ya go!  I don't know what it means but I got the same message when I tried from my phone.  If I replied with a 1 or 2 liner it would work just fine.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Prince Art on March 30, 2018, 04:46:37 PM
Just got the same message, too, when trying to post a couple of paragraphs.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: screenxpress on March 30, 2018, 04:55:54 PM
Test post of a .jpg.

That error could be from a posting attempt either too big or not one of the acceptable upload file types.



Prince,
I use Ultraseps all the time.  Can you send the artwork to screenxpress@yahoo.com to take a look at it?
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Frog on March 30, 2018, 05:12:25 PM
Prince and Doug, were these posts of text only, or was there, as screenxpress mentioned, a possibly non-conforming image attached?
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: screenxpress on March 30, 2018, 05:15:34 PM
Prince,

Check out the Merge/Subtract Feature in Ultraseps after running the sep process.

It may help, but will likely still require a fair amount of 'fiddling' to get what you want.

Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: screenxpress on March 30, 2018, 05:28:05 PM
This just used your post image to run through so it's kind of rough.

It's the 6 kept channels with the Red knocked out of all with some extra deletes taken out of the white underbase.

The shirt 'background' box was duplicated and changed to Red to reflect the shirt color.

Gives you the idea.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: screenxpress on March 30, 2018, 05:58:08 PM
I'm getting that error now.

I think your hosting site is having some problems.

And it's happening even posting just a reply...with no attachment.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: screenxpress on March 30, 2018, 06:03:46 PM
Prince,

After 'MERGING' Aqua and Purple, this attachment shows only the Underbase, Blue, and Black channels after the Red was knocked out from before. 

I found that option produced some interesting results, even if it is 'rough'.


I had never done it before, but the software has options to 'Merge' certain selected channels after the sep.  I let it merge Purple and Aqua and was left with this.  I'll definitely be using that option in the future, lol.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Frog on March 30, 2018, 06:11:05 PM
I'm getting that error now.

I think your hosting site is having some problems.

And it's happening even posting just a reply...with no attachment.
Thanks guys, I'm passing this along to our hosting techs (or techie hosts)
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Frog on March 30, 2018, 07:19:38 PM
I'm getting that error now.

I think your hosting site is having some problems.

And it's happening even posting just a reply...with no attachment.
Thanks guys, I'm passing this along to our hosting techs (or techie hosts)

The word back is that it's a "modsecure" problem and will be fixed with a slight tweak.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Frog on March 30, 2018, 07:39:07 PM
I'm getting that error now.

I think your hosting site is having some problems.

And it's happening even posting just a reply...with no attachment.
Thanks guys, I'm passing this along to our hosting techs (or techie hosts)

The word back is that it's a "modsecure" problem and will be fixed with a slight tweak.

It's supposed to be fixed now. They asked if I could see if it was working now, but of course, I have no way of knowing since other posts by you guys since the error message have made it through.
Is it possible for any of you to try to post the same thing that got kicked back?
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: screenxpress on March 30, 2018, 10:42:38 PM
The problem was it was not occurring all the time. 

For me, it would go away after trying a number of times and then come back again, so it's going to be hard to recreate to know it's fixed or not.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Frog on March 31, 2018, 12:54:06 AM
The problem was it was not occurring all the time. 

For me, it would go away after trying a number of times and then come back again, so it's going to be hard to recreate to know it's fixed or not.

Well, now, apparently all we can do is make a note if it happens again, or hope that it is indeed fixed.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Prince Art on April 04, 2018, 02:37:45 PM
Tried to post this earlier, got the error message then, so here it is today:

Many thanks to Doug & Screenxpress for the insights! I wouldn't have been able to figure it out without your help. Seps worked out great, shirts have been printed, and look great, too. I believe UltraSeps has probably just gained a new customer. :)

In case anyone happens across this thread in the future, here's the key bit of info from Doug that got me going in the right direction. (Which he couldn't post earlier, due to the technical difficulties): I wanted to take an ink color out of the underbase, to allow shirt color to be used instead of ink. Doug pointed me to the "Subtract Colors from Channels" action button. The related "Info" button describes how to select the base, and then knockout another channel's info from it. Doug added that it can take quite a few applications of this to remove essentially all color channel data from the base (like 10 or so), before only 1-2% dots remain. It was good to know this up front, because it did indeed take about that many to get the knockout I wanted.

Doug's other helpful tip for a novice like myself is that this can be done not only to let the shirt color show through in place of an ink color, but also to allow an ink (like black) to print directly to the shirt rather than being underbased. (However, in my case, UltraSeps also generated an acceptable UB with the black already knocked out, which is what I used.)

Further info: Despite Doug's advice, I wasn't happy with the results I was getting. But I had been working in the "Basic 5 Color" sep option. After Screenxpress posted, I saw he'd used the Index #1 option, and then merged channels. So I tried again, using the same steps he described & showed in screen shots, and it worked great.

Along the way, I made a few manual adjustments, applying Levels or Curves as needed. But for both what was automated & what I tweaked, what I saw on screen translated well to films, screens, and finally to shirts. Again, many thanks to the guys who took the time to help me figure out how to do what I needed to!
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: UltraSeps on April 06, 2018, 04:58:05 PM
Just some further info that might be helpful on removing the data of a given channel from another:

There is a way to remove all of the data of one channel from another in one step.  I don't mention it within my documentation as it's usually NOT the best method when adjusting separations.  So if wanting to just lessen the amount of one channel from another, it could have adverse affects on the separation and usually does.  Although like anything else, it depends, and this absolute method can be useful at times.

With that said, to remove "everything" within a channel from another channel, have the target channel selected in the channels panel.  Then open Apply Image and make the following selections as per the screenshot below.

Choose the channel to be removed from the target channel.
In this example the Blue 2727.

Click Invert

Select Color Dodge as the Blending Mode

Opacity at 100%

Now everything within the Blue 2727 is removed from the White Underbase.

What was once 72% fill is now 0%.

------------------------

Here's another method to "gradually" remove data from one channel from another can be done without using Apply Image.

First make sure the Background color in Photoshop's Tools Panel is white.

Now Control-Click (Windows) or Command-Click (Macintosh) the channel needed to be removed from another.  For example do this to the Blue 2727 channel.  This loads that channel as a Selection.

Next, select the channel you'd like to remove that data from and hit the Delete Key.  The delete key can be hit multiple times to remove yet more and more from the target channel.

------------------------

(http://www.ultraseps.com/images/color-dodge-invert.jpg)
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: screenxpress on April 06, 2018, 06:58:54 PM
Steve, the only Invert I know of is under Image/Adjustments/Invert and it does not offer a popup with settings as you have shown.  My Photoshop just reverses the image.

Is there another Invert option somewhere?
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: UltraSeps on April 07, 2018, 12:52:31 AM
Steve, the only Invert I know of is under Image/Adjustments/Invert and it does not offer a popup with settings as you have shown.  My Photoshop just reverses the image.

Is there another Invert option somewhere?


Read my instructions again.  This is done using the APPLY IMAGE function of Photoshop and is accessed through the Image Menu of Photoshop..... Image > Apply Image.

The Invert checkbox of Apply Image has nothing in common whatsoever with the global Invert function of Photoshop.

For those not familiar with the Apply Image function of Photoshop, I highly advise getting to know it well as doing great separations is almost impossible without using it.

I have a rudimentary video on Apply Image here:
http://www.ultraseps.com/apply-image-photoshop-tutorial-ultraseps.php (http://www.ultraseps.com/apply-image-photoshop-tutorial-ultraseps.php)

The video by no means covers everything.  Not even close and mainly focuses on the white base.  But it at least provides insight on what it is and how its accessed.

Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: screenxpress on April 07, 2018, 01:06:07 AM
Got it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Jay Kay on April 12, 2018, 08:55:51 PM
Too truly 100% remove all the data from one channel from another, you would want highlight target channel that is going to have data removed, image>apply image>select removal channel (inverted)>blending: Linear Dodge:Add. This will remove 100% of one channels data from the other.
Title: Re: shirt color as design color - UltraSeps question
Post by: Prince Art on April 16, 2018, 11:03:39 AM
Thanks to Steve for the personal reply, and JayKay too for his addition. Didn't see these prior to printing, but glad to have the info. As it was, the seps came out great, printed well, and pleased the customer! Definitely impressed with how much UltraSeps helped on this job - it was a great intro to the product!