TSB
Embroidery => General Embroidery => Topic started by: Get Shirts on December 08, 2014, 02:17:43 PM
-
We have outsourced our embroidery for years now and have decided to bring it in house. I am hoping that the good people of the board could weigh in with their experiences and suggestions. As of now, these are the facts:
- We're going to buy new
- 6 Heads
- Baruden or Tajima
Brandt has been nice enough to share his knowledge with me and has suggested Baruden. The cost is pretty much the same but Tajima seems to offer more support in the same way that M&R supports their equipment.
I would love to hear from folks who have this equipment currently in production as to pros & cons of each brand. What sets one apart from the other. What features are important that I am completely unaware of given that I have no physical experience with embroidery (loading thread, user interface, changing frames, etc...)
Tajima claims to have a higher resale value after 5 years, and that's a point they made a few times. Are you guys upgrading your equipment consistently after 5 years?
I really appreciate the help, and hopefully this thread can help others in the future.
Greg
-
6 heads is a lot to start with...personally I would go 2/4 rather than a 6 head...but that is just me.
I find we do a ton of 3 pc fill-in or names or whatever and a straight 6 would be wasted on us.
-
We have outsourced our embroidery for years now and have decided to bring it in house. I am hoping that the good people of the board could weigh in with their experiences and suggestions. As of now, these are the facts:
- We're going to buy new
- 6 Heads
- Baruden or Tajima
Brandt has been nice enough to share his knowledge with me and has suggested Baruden. The cost is pretty much the same but Tajima seems to offer more support in the same way that M&R supports their equipment.
I would love to hear from folks who have this equipment currently in production as to pros & cons of each brand. What sets one apart from the other. What features are important that I am completely unaware of given that I have no physical experience with embroidery (loading thread, user interface, changing frames, etc...)
Tajima claims to have a higher resale value after 5 years, and that's a point they made a few times. Are you guys upgrading your equipment consistently after 5 years?
I really appreciate the help, and hopefully this thread can help others in the future.
Greg
I don't think you can go wrong with either machine. Both are great machines and you will not be worried a bout resale unless you decide to get outta the embroidery game but both machines will hold those values just fine.
-
6 heads is a lot to start with...personally I would go 2/4 rather than a 6 head...but that is just me.
I find we do a ton of 3 pc fill-in or names or whatever and a straight 6 would be wasted on us.
6 Heads is a lot, but when hes doing 200pc hat runs or some;ting hes going to blow through them so that's a big bonus and honestly the cost from 4 to 6 heads isn't a massive jump, so id recommend it value wise.
-
We don't have embroidery equipment anymore, but when we did we had 2 Baruden and 1 Tajima. The Barudens are workhorses and if I were going to do it again and had my pick I would go with the Baruden. There was nothing really wrong with the Tajima either though.... The Baruden just had a better "feel" about it(can you tell I never ran them ;) ).
With all the experience we have had with some of our contract customers we have had heard first hand about pretty much every other brand out there, Barudens and Tajima's seem to be top dogs. But it looks like you already know that ! ;D
-
6 heads is a lot to start with...personally I would go 2/4 rather than a 6 head...but that is just me.
I find we do a ton of 3 pc fill-in or names or whatever and a straight 6 would be wasted on us.
6 Heads is a lot, but when hes doing 200pc hat runs or some;ting hes going to blow through them so that's a big bonus and honestly the cost from 4 to 6 heads isn't a massive jump, so id recommend it value wise.
I'd agree here, if you have the space and coin go for the 6 head. If you find you are doing a bunch of small orders(cough cough, Christmas stockings) after bringing it in house single head units seem to come up used here and there.
One of our Baurdens was probably 15 years old or more and still ran like a tank. Didn't do hats, and the computer was the size of a hoodie case, but it didn't miss a stitch!
-
We already outsource jobs on a regular basis that would benefit from 6 heads. If we were just starting out and beginning to offer embroidery I would consider a 2 head, but i would rather have some capacity right out of the gate.
That's my thought on the resale too, Brandt. I'm considering the Baruden bc that's what you use. Would you expect similar quality & speed out of both machines?
-
The difference between a 4 and 6 head is about 5k.
-
We already outsource jobs on a regular basis that would benefit from 6 heads. If we were just starting out and beginning to offer embroidery I would consider a 2 head, but i would rather have some capacity right out of the gate.
That's my thought on the resale too, Brandt. I'm considering the Baruden bc that's what you use. Would you expect similar quality & speed out of both machines?
I would but everyone I talk to suggest the Baurdan sews smaller text better. I don't do a BUNCH of that so not a deal breaker either way. But I wouldn't by from Hircsh if it was the last people standing.
-
The difference between a 4 and 6 head is about 5k.
I would not buy a 4 Head over a 6 unless it was a space issue over just 5k difference.
For me in my space right now we are outta room in our embroidery area so I can't by anything until we reconfigure our situation but we love our 6 heads, man you can just chuck work out on them. Just took a 1,000pc order 2 locations on embroidery. Every head we got extra will matter on that deal.
-
I would go for 6 heads, really. This depends on type of work you do, but in my shop on person can "feed" 8 head machine.
Both brands would work great. Get one where support is closer, better, easier to reach...
boris
-
My embroidery tech mentioned that if you do a lot of hats the Baurden sews hats a lot nicer than Tajima.
We have two Tajimas a 2000 four head and a 2007 six head we bought new. The 6 head has had alot of issues. I'm not real happy with it at all.
-
Based on support Tajima will win out.
What kinds of issues do you have with your 6 head and how easy has that been to resolve?
-
Greg,
We have had Barudan 8 & 15 head machines for almost 9 years and they still run like they were new. During this time we have had good service. If you are going with Barudan they did change the machine in 2004, I wouldn't buy older than that. I would recommend the larger machine.
-
We had some issues on our first 6 head. They changed trimmers, and id be honest and say it took 2 visits but they took care of it no cost to us and they were quick about it. It's not M&R level of service but it wasn't bad.
IMO if it was me I would always buy the largest machine my budget and space could fit. We have a 2 head that is the last machine we use. Before that our single head was a table basically.
-
Right on, so no major support issues.. Good to hear.
We're going to buy new, definitely.
I'm with you Brandt, I'm going to but the best and most equipment I can afford.
-
Right on, so no major support issues.. Good to hear.
We're going to buy new, definitely.
I'm with you Brandt, I'm going to but the best and most equipment I can afford.
New is the way to go if you can and have never had a machine IMO. They will be there to support you when you flub up something. Used your on your own. Last thing you want to do is buy a used machine and think your doing something wrong only to find out your just fine and the machine is wrong.
-
Definitely, I'll have enough to worry about I'm sure.
-
All we buy is Barudan machines. All new. Some of them are 15 years old still making us money. I wouldn't buy anything else, but that's me.
We just got another new 8 head stretch and put a brand new operator that never had any experience. Was pretty easy to train her on it and is making money already.
-
Grand, where are you located. How has support been?
-
CT- support is good. Never had problems getting parts or finding a tech if need be. They are work horses and just keep going. Get a 6 or 8 head at least.
We been doing it over 25 years and never tried anything else but that's because we didn't need to. They Never let us down.
-
Maybe this is a stupid question but our tech LOVES Amaya's.
What is everyone's thoughts on those?
-
Maybe this is a stupid question but our tech LOVES Amaya's.
What is everyone's thoughts on those?
My thoughts are that your tech loving Amaya's is just fine
.......as long as you buy a Tajima or Barudan.
-
Maybe this is a stupid question but our tech LOVES Amaya's.
What is everyone's thoughts on those?
As you ask around and talk to embroidery shops, of those with say more than 4 heads, have you ever heard someone say ya we've got 37 Amaya's or something like that? Sure I bet there are a few shops like that and for name drops or super 1 off stuff Amaya stuff is probably easier. I think its clear you see real production embroidery shops using Barudan, Tajima, ZSK, etc.
-
Maybe this is a stupid question but our tech LOVES Amaya's.
What is everyone's thoughts on those?
He probably loves them because they keep him busy ;)
-
Maybe this is a stupid question but our tech LOVES Amaya's.
What is everyone's thoughts on those?
He probably loves them because they keep him busy ;)
-
Maybe this is a stupid question but our tech LOVES Amaya's.
What is everyone's thoughts on those?
My thoughts are that your tech loving Amaya's is just fine
.......as long as you buy a Tajima or Barudan.
WORD
-
The argument is not only do they sew faster but also you have a better throughput because if you have a thread break on one machine then you keep sewing on the rest. The classic multiple single head vs multi-head argument.
For us, size is an issue. I could barely fit a two head machine in but I could find room for a 3rd single right now if I had to.
I agree most big shops have X brand or Y brand over Z brand... but most people drive a Ford or Chevy truck, doesn't mean that Toyota isn't the better truck. ;)
-
The argument is not only do they sew faster but also you have a better throughput because if you have a thread break on one machine then you keep sewing on the rest. The classic multiple single head vs multi-head argument.
For us, size is an issue. I could barely fit a two head machine in but I could find room for a 3rd single right now if I had to.
I agree most big shops have X brand or Y brand over Z brand... but most people drive a Ford or Chevy truck, doesn't mean that Toyota isn't the better truck. ;)
We rarely see thread breaks on our 6 heads. Now SWF on the other hand id agree with you. More heads more thread breaks. I know there has been many days where our 6 heads have broke no threads and only stop for bobbins (long runs).
-
There were many days of hair pulling at first too wasn't there?
-
Buy as many heads as you can, if you can swing 6 then do it. If you have to start with less then expand into more heads it will cost you time and more money per head.
I wish I had bought a Tajima or Baurdan, they are both the top of the line. Amayas are high quality toys in my opinion, just like a Toyota, real pretty machines .
Tajima and Baurdan are production leaders.
mooseman
-
I would say you could have nearly half the Barudan heads and still output faster than SWF. It's that drastic. Sew out is better too. People often just look at how many stitches per minute the machines are running, they forget that machines like Barudan move faster in between parts of designs, trims and so on. The SWF looks like its taking a break on a trim. It's comical as you see them run together.
-
I would say you could have nearly half the Barudan heads and still output faster than SWF. It's that drastic. Sew out is better too. People often just look at how many stitches per minute the machines are running, they forget that machines like Barudan move faster in between parts of designs, trims and so on. The SWF looks like its taking a break on a trim. It's comical as you see them run together.
I should send you footage of my brother doing a trim then. You would think I filmed it in slow motion. ;) It literally is 15 seconds from full speed back to full speed when trimming! We have the same reaction to you with our SWF... can't imagine doing that again... that must be fast!
-
I would say you could have nearly half the Barudan heads and still output faster than SWF. It's that drastic. Sew out is better too. People often just look at how many stitches per minute the machines are running, they forget that machines like Barudan move faster in between parts of designs, trims and so on. The SWF looks like its taking a break on a trim. It's comical as you see them run together.
I should send you footage of my brother doing a trim then. You would think I filmed it in slow motion. ;) It literally is 15 seconds from full speed back to full speed when trimming! We have the same reaction to you with our SWF... can't imagine doing that again... that must be fast!
Text me, ill send you a video later, my people are all at lunch but when it runs again ill shoot a video. 2152724369 Its drastic.
-
Something always over looked by new people to the machines is color change and trim speed. How fast the machine winds down and winds back up etc. I have seen some of the meh machines at trade shows and my head just hurt watching how slow the machine would perform oft repeat functions.
People keep mentioning customer service and a difference between Taj and Barudan, while we never owned Taj but have Barudan for 16 years I cill say their support has been top notch. You can call with any tech problem and they will talk you through things over the phone in trying to help dove a problem, if it is something beyond a phone call then you need to schedule a tech. But after all these years I never had a communication problem with them ever, even with machines out of warranty. Most times you have to leave a message but they call you back quickly to help. Parts are stupid expensive tho, not sure if the same for Taj but i would imagine it is so.
-
Thanks for the great input everyone. I'm still undecided but leaning toward Barudan, which are coming in cheaper than the Tajima equivalent.
Should I expect similar timing & speed between the Tajima Barudan? How about ease of use, my Barudan sales rep claims that their machines are a little easier to operate?
Is there anything else I should be looking for in these machines? Having zero experience with either brand, or really any emb equipment, I want to make sure I gather as much info ahead of the purchase as possible.
-
screw you guys...all this talk has me pricing out a new Barudan 6 head...might jump on it too.
-
Thanks for the great input everyone. I'm still undecided but leaning toward Barudan, which are coming in cheaper than the Tajima equivalent.
Should I expect similar timing & speed between the Tajima Barudan? How about ease of use, my Barudan sales rep claims that their machines are a little easier to operate?
Is there anything else I should be looking for in these machines? Having zero experience with either brand, or really any emb equipment, I want to make sure I gather as much info ahead of the purchase as possible.
Personally just me speaking and with me talking with a few techs, in recent years most suggest Barudan to be the best marginally. I wouldn't suggest night or day differences. Ive not used a Tajmia other than touch feel look so I can't fully answer. I wouldn't be scared of one at all in my shop, I would really only buy Barudan or Tajmia at this stage in our business but I really like the Barudans and I intend to keeping buying them, probably a machine a year for awhile at least. I can't see you making a mistake with either brand. If its cheaper for the Barudan I think you've answered your own question which way to go there.
-
Great, thanks Brandt! How about the software. Both reps have suggested we start with the basic editing software and the update later on down the line if we want to digitize ourself. I'm pretty sure I'll want to digitize myself early on.. jump right in to the digitizing edition?
Brandt, I know you guys either found a good deal on the Wilcom software or got it through your rep. Did you buy that at the same time as the equipment?
And does any of the software run on Macs?
-
Great, thanks Brandt! How about the software. Both reps have suggested we start with the basic editing software and the update later on down the line if we want to digitize ourself. I'm pretty sure I'll want to digitize myself early on.. jump right in to the digitizing edition?
Brandt, I know you guys either found a good deal on the Wilcom software or got it through your rep. Did you buy that at the same time as the equipment?
And does any of the software run on Macs?
IMO the software is as or more important than the machine. Shelly can make artwork come off our SWF and many would tell us they don't believe that came off a SWF. It was all in the digitizing. She had to spend more effort for SWF but over all made a lesser machine produce top level embroidery.
I would highly suggest going with Wilcom and as high a version as you can swing for. We did a deal on it, they had a sale for a lot off and we jumped on it. In the beginning you may want to send some digitizing out so you can see how things should sew/be digitized and you learn a little each design from that. But you will quickly likely want to do your own.
-
Barudan all the way - and Wilcom works great for us - you don't have to have the $10k+ version to do some good digitizing.
We still sub out our really complex digitizing (time -vs- money), but the weak link in our embroidery system is never the Barudans or the Software. Even the older barudan machines are still fantastic.
The new barudans can fly - Tajimas are still great machines - If you are going to sew hats, then Barudan has the slight edge.
Good luck!
-
I know next to nothing about embroidery machines but do know one of my suppliers (Antigua) has 270 heads and all Barudan....
-
Thanks for the help everyone. After weighing the options I decided on a 6 head Baruden and we should be taking delivery sometime this week, I'm pretty pumped. This is about three years in the making. I'll post some photos as it arrives and is uncrated.
-
Thanks for the help everyone. After weighing the options I decided on a 6 head Baruden and we should be taking delivery sometime this week, I'm pretty pumped. This is about three years in the making. I'll post some photos as it arrives and is uncrated.
Congrats, good luck. We have 2 x 6 Heads from them and I expect that will grow next year. Love their machines.
-
Awesome, thanks Brandt.