TSB

screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Croft on October 31, 2017, 12:08:27 PM

Title: GAS dryer
Post by: Croft on October 31, 2017, 12:08:27 PM
Need help on pulling the trigger on switching to gas dryer.

I have found a good used sprint 3000 38" belt 10' heat

Currently we have a 38" Radicure with the extra panel, we run it daily (9hrs+)  and has been an awesome dryer, my electricity bills run around $500 month for the shop ( dryer /compressor / 3 spot dryers etc)

Am I going to get any more throughput with the gas dryer over electric? I'm thinking of getting the dryer this year to run with my air 6 colour Sportsman but want to upgrade to a 10-12 colour servo press in a year.

Some plus's I see are
-the ability to start trying water base or discharge base prints
-programability for different cure temps
-speed?

cons
-will take up more shop space
-sounds like more maintenance is needed on gas dryers
-read a comment about noise? hadn't heard that before or considered it?
- not sure if it can dry say 70-80 doz an hour of plastisol , thought I hade seen an M&R throughput chart before but can't find it

Any info or isight would be appreciated ,
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: 244 on October 31, 2017, 12:35:38 PM
Need help on pulling the trigger on switching to gas dryer.

I have found a good used sprint 3000 38" belt 10' heat

Currently we have a 38" Radicure with the extra panel, we run it daily (9hrs+)  and has been an awesome dryer, my electricity bills run around $500 month for the shop ( dryer /compressor / 3 spot dryers etc)

Am I going to get any more throughput with the gas dryer over electric? I'm thinking of getting the dryer this year to run with my air 6 colour Sportsman but want to upgrade to a 10-12 colour servo press in a year.

Some plus's I see are
-the ability to start trying water base or discharge base prints
-programability for different cure temps
-speed?

cons
-will take up more shop space
-sounds like more maintenance is needed on gas dryers
-read a comment about noise? hadn't heard that before or considered it?
- not sure if it can dry say 70-80 doz an hour of plastisol , thought I hade seen an M&R throughput chart before but can't find it

Any info or isight would be appreciated ,
the dryer on plastisol should do 900 per hr as an average. Energy cost will be about 1/3 of the electric dryer. Maintenance is minimal with mostly cleaning filters daily and grease to the main blower shaft periodically . Noise will be slightly louder than Radicure as blower is larger but not by much. Its a great dryer. I cant think of anyone who has that dryer that doesn't love it!
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: cleveprint on October 31, 2017, 12:42:37 PM
next to upgrading our exposure unit, the best thing we have ever done was upgrade our dryer. we have a 48" sprint 2k. we run two autos and a manual off of it. although rarely is it full to the gills. the cost savings in gas compared to electric (going off of old bills) more than pays for its loan payment. like rich said, cleaning filters and putting grease on it is the only maintenance. In 4 years, Ive had to replace the spark plug once and the flame rod once. although I have had to clean them a few times in-between. Also I've had to replace a belt on the blower. Nothing took more than 20 minutes to do.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Stinkhorn Press on October 31, 2017, 01:02:18 PM
thirding.
totally unsexy purchase that really frees things up.
maintenance? if you buy certain make/models esp used possibly. new with support or used known to be good (and access to someone who knows their way around them - like winston) not an issue.
Noise? yep. it's louder. it's the loudest thing in our shop by a factor of two. but ours is old and beat on and is just big blower on not greased enough in the past bearings.
space needs? sure thing.
bills? at todays gas prices, running it full blast 8 hours a day 5 days a week barely costs more than our bottled water service. it's kinda insane how cheap they are to run just now ($90 - $110 a month here, was paying over $400 a month to run an IR panel joke of a dryer before that)

other PRO:
BETTER CURES.

IF YOU HAVE ROOM, as soon as you can justify it, do it. utils difference pays for itself.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: ZooCity on October 31, 2017, 01:12:36 PM
Going to a gas from electric dryer is the only case I've seen where a sales person can truthfully tell you "you can't afford not to buy it".   We went from a 100a beast of an electric with 10' of heat to a Sprint HO with 16' of heat and an extra foot wider belt  The gas payment plus the note on the gas dryer is less than the electric payment on the old dryer.  And we have way more capacity, better cure, etc.  The HO is a monster dryer too so it's not even apples to apples and it's still far cheaper. 

We have variable circ speed on ours but run it all the way up.  Wood floors on beams.  Definitely makes a thick white noise that you will notice going from electric but that's the sound of better air circulation.  If you take time to soft foot the circ motor and align the pulleys well you can reduce this I'm sure.

I think the Sprint 3k units look great (just watch out for reinstall on sprints- the hardware that connects the drones is stoooopid and will drive you crazy and I don't think they updated that unfortunately for the 3k models.  I recommend bypassing the window hardware that locks the drones together if they give you trouble and maybe retrofitting buckles or something.  It's just not worth the ag in some cases.  If the dryer wasn't ran too hard it should be easier to reassemble.)

Anyways, stop paying your utility co for that old electric and upgrade your curing and capacity for less.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Croft on October 31, 2017, 04:05:39 PM
Thanks for the replies, think its probably time to go gas.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: pwalsh on October 31, 2017, 04:52:09 PM
Thanks for the replies, think its probably time to go gas.


If you fold the shirts coming off the press to around 18"x18" you can get two garments across a 38" wide belt, and achieve production speeds of around 1,000/pph with plastisol inks with a Sprint 3000 38" Gas Dryer with 10' Heat
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: jupmode on November 01, 2017, 07:25:23 AM
Going to a gas from electric dryer is the only case I've seen where a sales person can truthfully tell you "you can't afford not to buy it".   We went from a 100a beast of an electric with 10' of heat to a Sprint HO with 16' of heat and an extra foot wider belt  The gas payment plus the note on the gas dryer is less than the electric payment on the old dryer.  And we have way more capacity, better cure, etc.  The HO is a monster dryer too so it's not even apples to apples and it's still far cheaper. 
[/i]. 

Anyways, stop paying your utility co for that old electric and upgrade your curing and capacity for less.

We experienced the same as ZooCity. Our payment on the dryer plus the cost of gas is less than what we're saving in electricity. I would argue making the switch from electric to gas is not only the best move, but also the time to justify going for a bigger dryer since you know you'll be able to cover the payments. You'll never be in this position again and there's an incredible peace of mind in having a really solid dryer.

Another thing to consider, when you switch to gas, you'll need to budget for the electrical work, running the gas line, and venting the dryer. Get quotes, plan ahead, and make sure your contractors know exactly what needs to be done so you don't have down time.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: GraphicDisorder on November 01, 2017, 07:49:47 AM
LOVE our Sprint 3000!
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Croft on November 01, 2017, 10:38:34 AM
Going to a gas from electric dryer is the only case I've seen where a sales person can truthfully tell you "you can't afford not to buy it".   We went from a 100a beast of an electric with 10' of heat to a Sprint HO with 16' of heat and an extra foot wider belt  The gas payment plus the note on the gas dryer is less than the electric payment on the old dryer.  And we have way more capacity, better cure, etc.  The HO is a monster dryer too so it's not even apples to apples and it's still far cheaper. 
[/i]. 

Anyways, stop paying your utility co for that old electric and upgrade your curing and capacity for less.

We experienced the same as ZooCity. Our payment on the dryer plus the cost of gas is less than what we're saving in electricity. I would argue making the switch from electric to gas is not only the best move, but also the time to justify going for a bigger dryer since you know you'll be able to cover the payments. You'll never be in this position again and there's an incredible peace of mind in having a really solid dryer.

Yes I'm estimating $4000 on the install, had the gas fitter out there saying approx $1500-$2000 and the last quote on ducting was around $2000

Another thing to consider, when you switch to gas, you'll need to budget for the electrical work, running the gas line, and venting the dryer. Get quotes, plan ahead, and make sure your contractors know exactly what needs to be done so you don't have down time.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Croft on November 01, 2017, 10:39:42 AM
Thanks for the replies, think its probably time to go gas.


If you fold the shirts coming off the press to around 18"x18" you can get two garments across a 38" wide belt, and achieve production speeds of around 1,000/pph with plastisol inks with a Sprint 3000 38" Gas Dryer with 10' Heat

I knew I had seen this type of chart before but could never find it thanks

Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: IntegriTees on November 01, 2017, 10:49:31 PM
I’ll also be upgrading from my 2004 radicure to a sprint 3000 in the very near future. It’s the very last piece of equipment for me to upgrade in my shop and probably should ha e been the first. Hopefully, I can save a few bucks purchasing it at my first trip to the Long Beach show.

This thread just makes me want to do make the jump sooner.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: mk162 on November 02, 2017, 09:11:01 AM
That was the first thing we upgraded here when I bought the shop from my parents.  We had an old 60" wide maxi-cure and it was just run hard and put up wet.  We really needed to rewire the whole thing and put in some new eletronics, it just wasn't worth saving.  Even if it was running perfectly, it wasn't worth it, it cost too much to run.  We took it apart and sold the heating elements and the control panel and scrapped the rest.

I don't miss that thing at all.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2017, 09:42:56 AM
Anyone have a guess at real world numbers curing discharge PPH through a dryer like the 3000 with a 10 ft chamber?
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: pwalsh on November 02, 2017, 09:54:31 AM
Anyone have a guess at real world numbers curing discharge PPH through a dryer like the 3000 with a 10 ft chamber?

How long are you needing to leave the shirt in the chamber to achieve full discharge & cure?  90 seconds, 120 seconds?  it's all a matter of how many shirts you can stack on the belt and how long a dwell time you need. 
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2017, 10:25:02 AM
Anyone have a guess at real world numbers curing discharge PPH through a dryer like the 3000 with a 10 ft chamber?

How long are you needing to leave the shirt in the chamber to achieve full discharge & cure?  90 seconds, 120 seconds?  it's all a matter of how many shirts you can stack on the belt and how long a dwell time you need. 

Sorry, I guess I should've been more specific.  Say it needs a 2 minute dwell time.  I'm trying to make a decision.  I have a 2007 mini sprint with an 8 ft chamber and I wanted to know besides the newer technology with bells and whistles, what kind of performance increase there would be in throughput.  Thanks.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: pwalsh on November 02, 2017, 10:40:01 AM
Doug;  You will achieve about 380 - 400 pph with a Sprint 3000 dryer 38" belt / 10' heat chamber with garments folded to 18" x 18" stacked two across the belt with  2 minute dwell time.  You can pick up more productivity with an extended heat chamber and/or a wider belt.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2017, 10:46:45 AM
Thanks for the pdf.  That's what I needed.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: californiadreamin on November 02, 2017, 12:18:21 PM
Anyone have a guess at real world numbers curing discharge PPH through a dryer like the 3000 with a 10 ft chamber?

How long are you needing to leave the shirt in the chamber to achieve full discharge & cure?  90 seconds, 120 seconds?  it's all a matter of how many shirts you can stack on the belt and how long a dwell time you need. 

Sorry, I guess I should've been more specific.  Say it needs a 2 minute dwell time.  I'm trying to make a decision.  I have a 2007 mini sprint with an 8 ft chamber and I wanted to know besides the newer technology with bells and whistles, what kind of performance increase there would be in throughput.  Thanks.


The whole point of the modular drying system which RayPaul started in the early
1990's was to be able to add / or take away additional drying sections to accommodate
Growth or downsizing without going to large additional cost to the printer. You would be better
Off adding additional drone heat sections to your already more than capable dryer to achieve your
Desired results. Performance the same unless you like bells an whistles. If you do, then buy all means
Ring the bell! To increase your performance and save money, the choice is clear!
Happy Printing
Winston
904.3430848
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: ZooCity on November 02, 2017, 03:16:08 PM
Doug, how many autos feeding the dryer?  For wb/dc/HSA I think a 10' chamber is way to small unless you want to break out all the goofy fixatives, etc. to ensure curing. 

We have 16' of heat and 60" belt at 400k btu to feed two autos and imho it's "adequate" when both those presses are running wb/dc/HSA inks.  Since we run so much of the waterbourne product and especially for discharge, I would take more chamber if I could fit it.
If you are only running these inks on occasion just run at the dwell you like, those figures Peter tossed out aren't too far off of actual pcs/hr off a press (not what's reading out on the press, actual shirts going on to belt) and shouldn't slow you down too bad on one press.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: IntegriTees on November 02, 2017, 03:43:57 PM
anyone running two autos on a 48" belt sprint 3000? 
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Doug S on November 02, 2017, 04:03:24 PM
Zoo, just 1 auto and we are mainly plastisol with the rare discharge print.  I think I'll just add more drones.  I'm just going to have to tear out a wall to make that happen.  I was just wondering what the difference was between the minisprint and the 3000 were if they both had the same length chamber aside from the tech.

Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Croft on November 07, 2017, 03:34:04 PM
Well new 3000 bought getting excited about the delivery. Man equipment purchase are agony when your a small operation and have to make the decision yourself. Thanks for the help on the forum also thanks to Rich for chiming in
it makes it a lot easier to wire cash to a company that you know is stand up.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Doug S on November 07, 2017, 04:18:15 PM
You won't regret it.  Going from electric to gas was one of the best things we've done along with switching to dts.  Congrats!
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: IntegriTees on January 08, 2018, 02:21:42 PM
Well new 3000 bought getting excited about the delivery. Man equipment purchase are agony when your a small operation and have to make the decision yourself. Thanks for the help on the forum also thanks to Rich for chiming in
it makes it a lot easier to wire cash to a company that you know is stand up.

what width, length, etc did you go with?

I'm struggling on the decision to either upgrade from my 36" belt to a 48 or 60.  Right now, it will only be feeding one press and probably will for the next year or two.  With 12 feet of heat, and only running plastisol, I'm not sure if I want to go as big as 60" on the slight possibility of needing it to run two autos a few years down the line.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: mk162 on January 08, 2018, 02:30:25 PM
if you have the space, go 60.  We didn't we had to opt for a 48.  I still love it over electric.  With an extra 12" though it would make life a little easier.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: IntegriTees on January 08, 2018, 02:32:32 PM
if you have the space, go 60.  We didn't we had to opt for a 48.  I still love it over electric.  With an extra 12" though it would make life a little easier.

are you running more than one auto on it?
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: mk162 on January 08, 2018, 02:36:11 PM
no, we also have 12' of heat and sometimes when we are flying the belt can barely keep up when you hit xl's and up.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: IntegriTees on January 08, 2018, 05:38:44 PM
This is what I figured. 
I just needed to hear it from a few other printers.

I hate myself for being cheap when i got my G3 with only 10 heads.  moving from a 6 color Sportsman that I never maxed out....i though 10 heads would be overkill.  two months after install, I was already contacting my rep to see how much it would cost to move into a 14 head machine. 
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: mk162 on January 09, 2018, 08:53:23 AM
Funny, we went from a 6 color to an 8, still rarely use all the heads.  Ended up replacing it with an 8 again.  Also, we don't have a ton of space here frankly.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Croft on January 09, 2018, 09:43:54 AM
This is what I figured. 
I just needed to hear it from a few other printers.

I hate myself for being cheap when i got my G3 with only 10 heads.  moving from a 6 color Sportsman that I never maxed out....i though 10 heads would be overkill.  two months after install, I was already contacting my rep to see how much it would cost to move into a 14 head machine.

been on the fence here between 10 or 12 colour, will need to make a decision soon.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: IntegriTees on January 11, 2018, 10:52:45 AM
go 12 or even 14 if you can afford it.  When running at the high speeds, the extra heads for cooldown stations, extra flash, etc will be the difference in running the job fast or lowering the speed due to the constraints of the job setup. 
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: ffokazak on January 11, 2018, 01:11:30 PM
Min 12 colour.

Two flashes, a hot head, and your down to 9 colours.  We have our 1st flash at head 3, so there is another head you can't use on one job, so your down to an 8 colour to run super fast.

Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: Admiral on January 12, 2018, 11:58:20 AM
Min 12 colour.

Two flashes, a hot head, and your down to 9 colours.  We have our 1st flash at head 3, so there is another head you can't use on one job, so your down to an 8 colour to run super fast.

No cool down after the flash!?

12 color for us means 8 screen max, ideally more like 7 screens, aka 6 colors.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: IntegriTees on January 12, 2018, 01:06:57 PM
i run 8 color jobs on my 10 color G3 with a couple fans and a kool mist.  In the summer, its slow going though. 
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: ZooCity on January 12, 2018, 01:32:07 PM
i run 8 color jobs on my 10 color G3 with a couple fans and a kool mist.  In the summer, its slow going though.

How do you and your staff like the kool mist?  I'm embarrassed to say we've had one mothballing here that nobody ever hooked up.   I like the concept of not eating up a head for cool down though.
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: IntegriTees on January 12, 2018, 01:45:32 PM
kool mist works.  easy to setup and get dialed in.  i use it after the second flash in the design but I'm thinking of getting a second one to go after my first flash also. 
Down here in Texas, it gets hot in the shop during the summer and on a 1000+ job, there isn't anyway to keep the pallets from getting REALLY hot
Title: Re: GAS dryer
Post by: ZooCity on January 12, 2018, 03:19:23 PM
Thanks I'll break it out and give it a whirl finally.  I agree that after the 2nd flash is where you probably want it so you can hit that last color or three without the heat wrecking the wow printing.   I notice that our printers add dwell to resolve this when absolutely necessary.  Having a robot spritz the print with a cooling slurry sounds better.