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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Biverson on January 11, 2018, 01:23:23 PM
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Looking for some advice on a larger order I'm having to print up next week. 600 Black Shirts, 2-color front (3 if you include UB), and 1-color back. I've only had my auto since last July and only done a handful of 500+ orders. I've got through the others but not as efficiently as I would have liked. I'd like to get this one out as quick as possible. I've got an Anatol Volt 7/8 and Vastex Econored II I'm using. The thing is I haven' thad good luck with WoW, even if it's just 2 colors. I don't want to have to do 2 rotations on the press and don't like using the step-back feature. Quartz can get too hot, etc. I usually have problems with the color not being vibrant on the UB, or it picking up on the following screen and dulling the colors. Here's how I'm thinking of setting it up:
- Head 1 - White UB on 150S
- Head 2 - Flash
- Head 5 - Orange (Trapping White UB) on 200 or 225S
- Head 6 - Highlight White (with 2 pt gutter via SimpleSeps to account for butt reg with Orange) on 180S
- Angles at 15 degrees, with minimal squeegee pressure for the last 2 heads.
From all the research I've done on this forum and elsewhere that sounds good, but then I worry about opacity. I'm using Union Inks Premium Cotton and Ultrasoft Orange. Any help, tips or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks!
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to print WOW you need to have inks that are designed for it. Additionally, the top colors have to be very thin (deposit) or they will mushroom out when you step on it with the next screen. You should be looking at 305 for the top colors that are not last.
So in this case, your orange should be on a 305. If you don't have one, a 280 will do. 230 might be too thick. HiWhite can go on any mesh as you will not be printing after it.
Which inks are you using for Orange? If it's not WOW ready, there might be an additive you can put in the ink to prevent build up.
pierre
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Great advice from Pierre, only other thing is you might need 70/90/70 sharp squeegee's for your top color and make sure the pallets are good and warm, which makes the ink flow better. You should get a really consistent print stroke all the way through with those electric heads, oh and I've found out if your under base is to thick, you'll have problems with build up printing WOW.
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I'm a bit of a lightweight here, but will add this for WOW.
Once everything is in registration and you're printing, do not change any settings until you have printed at least 6 shirts as the colors won't settle in before that.
Update:
I do WOW with Union Ultrasofts and Union Bright Cotton White for UB. Don't know about the "Premium White", but the Ultrasofts are designed for WOW.
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Which inks are you using for Orange? If it's not WOW ready, there might be an additive you can put in the ink to prevent build up.
Thanks for the info. I'll be using some of Unions Ultrasoft Orange or like it. I usually get all Maxopake and then usencureable reducer and soft hand additive to make Ultrasofts when I need them as they're too thick straight from the bucket.
The highest I've got is 255 and could try that. All my squeegees are 70 durometer ATM and may order a couple 80 or 70/90/70 or equivalent.
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Forgot to mention I've got a roller squeegee I can use after the flash to ensure the base is as smooth as possible.
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Pierre wharf would you use to print the UB?
Would you single stroke?
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to print WOW you need to have inks that are designed for it. Additionally, the top colors have to be very thin (deposit) or they will mushroom out when you step on it with the next screen. You should be looking at 305 for the top colors that are not last.
So in this case, your orange should be on a 305. If you don't have one, a 280 will do. 230 might be too thick. HiWhite can go on any mesh as you will not be printing after it.
Which inks are you using for Orange? If it's not WOW ready, there might be an additive you can put in the ink to prevent build up.
pierre
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Which inks are you using for Orange? If it's not WOW ready, there might be an additive you can put in the ink to prevent build up.
Thanks for the info. I'll be using some of Unions Ultrasoft Orange or like it. I usually get all Maxopake and then usencureable reducer and soft hand additive to make Ultrasofts when I need them as they're too thick straight from the bucket.
The highest I've got is 255 and could try that. All my squeegees are 70 durometer ATM and may order a couple 80 or 70/90/70 or equivalent.
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maxo is not WOW friendly and the additives you have will not fix that. Union makes a WOW additive for the maxo inks.
Ultrasoft should work. Not sure about the 255, it might. If it was me, I would order some higher mesh screens.
70 duro should be fine.
pierre
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Pierre wharf would you use to print the UB?
Would you single stroke?
Synergy ink for ubase, single stroke for the spot colors. Some of our simulated process requires double stroke even though we try hard to avoid that. In some cases we'll burn two underbase screens in a row to eliminate double stroking. This has to do with our simulated process inks. They are very translucent and don't work well unless the underbase is super bright.
pierre
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Good call on talking about double underbases Pierre.
Lots of shops will run this as the occasion calls for it. Either printing as a Highlite white screen first then the normal base plate, or the base plate/flash/second base white (modified or not depending on design and circumstance) with a normal highlite white in its regular position.
I have a design coming up in a couple weeks, close to 7k pcs, and its 16 inches tall. 2 stroking the base would kill production rates. We have a fairly bright red going down on top and it will look duller than wanted if I run a single stroke through my 225s base plate. So I am running my base white, flashing, rolling smooth, and a modified base white that boosts the brightness where needed and acts as my highlite white. Ran a sample this week, it looks great and runs fast.
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so, if you're running two underbases are you running in revolver mode? or do you have two flashes?
I am just getting wet on wet so I have lots of simple questions.
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so, if you're running two underbases are you running in revolver mode? or do you have two flashes?
I am just getting wet on wet so I have lots of simple questions.
we run two underbases WOW and then flash. It is the same as two stroking, but prints faster.
pierre
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Thanks everyone for your comments and help! Much appreciated. This job went off without a hitch. I wanted to update on how I did it. It was by no means a complex print. UB, color, highlight white front. 1 color back with 2 screens to increase production. I just felt I we need to start becoming more efficient in how we setup and cycle to cut down on flashes, etc.
- 600 Black Shirts - P&C Core Cotton
- 2-color front, 1-color back
- UB White on 156 Saati Hitech from Spot Color. High tension mesh. Double stroke. Union Ink Premium Cotton White. We could have went single, but kept the 2nd in there as we were limited in speed due to our dryer
- Flash - 2 seconds
- Cool down then Roller Squeegee
- Orange on a 230 Saati Hitech. Single Stroke. The orange wasn't an ultrasoft and I only had Union Maxopake on hand. I mixed 20% Synergy Magic and 5% reducer and never had a problem with the ink clearing or picking up on the next screen. I was pleasantly surprised by how smooth it ran, yet still had good body. Was very opaque too.
- Highlight White on 156 Saati Hitech. Single Stroke. I was initially worried about opacity but could have definitely used a higher mesh.
We ran 200 shirts an hour which for us is great. We could have been faster if it wasn't for our dryer. Vastex Econored 2. I pushed it more than I have before but don't like to kick them out any faster than 30 seconds under the heat. I've setup almost all my jobs without a highlight white and just used the base and p/f/p for the highlight. Having a HL White does add more setup and reg time, but man, once it'd going without any flashback or revolutions it's so much better. I've usually only not done 3 screens to quote things out more affordably, but then there's the added time for the extra flash, and there's more ink on the garment. I'm going to start ensuring I account for a UB and HL white if needed to help with production speed, hand, and getting more acquainted with WOW. I can say me and my employee had a lot of fun kicking this out quicker than usual and having a what we thought was a nice end product for some giveaway shirts!
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Looks good. Forgiving print too with none of the top white or orange touching!
One quick thing, and I may be completely wrong, but arent you supposed to rub the roller squeegee immediately after the flash vs after a cooldown? Someone definitely correct me if I'm wrong (I don't use one).
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One quick thing, and I may be completely wrong, but arent you supposed to rub the roller squeegee immediately after the flash vs after a cooldown? Someone definitely correct me if I'm wrong (I don't use one).
Correct. Ink is much more "pliable" when hot.
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Looks good. Forgiving print too with none of the top white or orange touching!
One quick thing, and I may be completely wrong, but arent you supposed to rub the roller squeegee immediately after the flash vs after a cooldown? Someone definitely correct me if I'm wrong (I don't use one).
Thanks. I like to try and make designs "breathe" a bit with spacing and using the shirt color. There was some white and orange touching at the bottom, but had a 2pt gutter to account for that and never had any problems.
Roller squeegee - That's how I used to set it up but just recently moved it over a head to try that out. I've only had it for 6 months and the Teflon is starting to come up in places. I figured it was the heat right after the flash. My thought was that I've increased my speed enough so that it's not fully cool when it gets to the roller, but still hot enough to get smoothed.
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Looks good! I don't have revolver on my press and most my jobs are either 1 color or 2 colors on darks. My mission this year is to get better with WOW spot color designs and run more jobs on the auto. Did you use any particular reducer in the orange or any brand will do? When I did the job for NHL network back in June I used a local ink company for the pantone grey and it was the tackiest ink I've ever used. I ended up cutting half of it with Magic base and it helped but not by much. Wondering if reducer or Softee base would help with the build up. I also ran that grey on a 230 mesh - if I get the order again this year I'm bumping that screen to a 305.
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Looks good! I don't have revolver on my press and most my jobs are either 1 color or 2 colors on darks. My mission this year is to get better with WOW spot color designs and run more jobs on the auto. Did you use any particular reducer in the orange or any brand will do?
I've got a gallon of reducer from Union in that I use. I just got it as most of my ink is Union, but would imagine most any brand would do the trick? That would definitely help with your tack problem.
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Looks good! I don't have revolver on my press and most my jobs are either 1 color or 2 colors on darks. My mission this year is to get better with WOW spot color designs and run more jobs on the auto. Did you use any particular reducer in the orange or any brand will do? When I did the job for NHL network back in June I used a local ink company for the pantone grey and it was the tackiest ink I've ever used. I ended up cutting half of it with Magic base and it helped but not by much. Wondering if reducer or Softee base would help with the build up. I also ran that grey on a 230 mesh - if I get the order again this year I'm bumping that screen to a 305.
Magic should not make the ink thinner, just printing better (higher viscosity drop, lower tack, and some other MAGIC and voodoo that Joe puts in it). You should use a reducer to make it thinner. Proper extender should not change the feel. If the Softee base is thinner than what you are mixing it into, it will make it runnier.
This is what I understand. Colin would probably be able to explain thei better and with confidence!
pierre
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The magic and Voodoo that are reducers/softhand extenders/and ultrasoft bases!!!!
Ok...... So:
When you need to sharply reduce the viscocity of an ink, in this case a super thick and stringy grey, you want to use a reducer that is a close to the viscocity of water as you can.
Why?
Because it will create a drop in viscocity faster than anything else. You will typically need to add less than 5% (on really bad inks up to 10%) by weight to get your ink back into "spec". This allows your ink to maintain almost the exact same opacity it had in the beginning (not taking into account the drop in viscosity that CAN lead to a thinner deposit).
If I was to add a softhand extender like SHAPE or Finesse then I would need to add closer to 20% to get the same physical rheology/viscocity that I got from softee base/primer clear/fashion soft/curable reducer. But don't use curable reducer, its not as well balanced as the other products.
DO NOT USE VISCOCITY BUSTER/DETACK/PLASTICIZER to reduce your ink..... The adding of plasticizer in amounts exceeding 1% by weight (even that is pushing it on some ink types) can make your ink uncurable. Unless you have extensive knowledge and the ability to cure test and wash test... just steer clear :)
And honestly... if the grey was that bad after adding Joe's Magic. Toss the grey and get a new mix next year :)
Pierre has it right about adding a clear extender. It should not change the properties of the ink you are printing. It should just lower the pigment load, thereby making it more translucent.
I use a concentrate mixing system here. If I was to want to make an ink more translucent or extend my color out, I would just go grab more of the mixing base and add it to my mix. Nothing about the ink properties will change.
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Can I get a basic explanation of when to use curable reducer vs. Soft Hand?
I have both, but generally use the curable reducer to make ink more 'flowable'.
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What are you/would you use for a softhand additive?
Curable reducer has been the go to for decades. I prefer the new Super Soft bases/additives because they are an actual fleshed out ink, not just resin and plasticiser. The inks contain both softer resins (think soft lure baits like worms) and waxes which give them a softer more pliable hand/finish. Curable reducer is a standard ink hardness.
Softhand extenders also have softer resins and maybe some waxes for feel, but the ink has more body (obviously) and if your goal is to make an ink print "LIKE NEW" again, it will take more of that ink to achieve that effect.
As we all know, the more clear you add to an ink, the more you can see through it and have opacity problems.
In the end, it realllly depends on what the ink in front of you needs for YOUR print parameters.
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Awesome info, thanks Colin.
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Thanks Colin. The only inks I have issues with are Union Maxopakes.
If I understand you correctly, I could use either, but your preference is the soft hand additives, right?
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With inks like the Union Maxopakes, if you want to get them flowing better, definitely use the water like softhand additives/bases. I would not want to use an extender with those inks.
The point of the maxopake series is to get an OPAQUE print :) But the inks can be a bit thick....
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Thanks
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;D