Making color count choice for new auto?

[tonypep]

We have two 14s, one 10, and one 6. All have different advantages. One is a designated youth machine, one is a designated one color machine where we'll set up six jobs before production starts, and the other two do the rest. On the bigger machines we may also pre-set 2 or more jobs prior to production starts. Less than half a dozen times do we need all those heads for one job. The bigger machines allow for more efficiency.

[abchung]

I am wondering. If someone is getting a 14 colour just to have the ability to set up multiple jobs, wouldn't it be better to use that money to invest in a future CTS?

[GKitson]

I'm pretty jealous of you S.O.Bs! We were pushing our space limits with a 10 color XL!   After measuring, the only way we are fitting something bigger than a 10 color is if we go with a oval press...

I would think the main advantage of going up from a 12 color would be setting up multiple jobs at one time. Which is a huge advantage. A 12/16, I think I would drive myself crazy trying to decide where the second "opening" would go! What about a 13/16?

Just curious, on a 12/16 where would people leave open? I would leave 3 open and MAYBE 8, but I would without a doubt drive myself crazy second guessing that 8 though!

We are running an early CII 10/16 with 3 & 4 open and 9 & 10 open. Usually leave 1 open for loading issues and print white in 2 however we occasionally use 2 UB whites to boost color.  Keep in mind that black in 1 and white in 2 is often a great choice and may eliminate the need for a second flash later on. Flash in 3 cool in 4.

Print WOW in 5-8, flash on 9 cool on 10 then 11-14 WOW for a true 10 color print at speed of 50-60 dozen per hour for most loaders all day long.

If we have a funky print that needs a little TLC with SE printing we sometime print the HD or Clear goop etc. in 14 after a third flash on 12 with a cool on 13 for a SE 8 color job with 3 flashes.

Earlier machines have trouble with multiple job sets up due to picking up ink on bottom of screens with high tension low off contact printing however the CIII takes care of that problem.  Print order effects the ink pick up also but I really don't like to set up 3 reds for 3 different jobs and we find it just as quick to set up only 1 job at a time rather that multiple squeegee and flood bars with the same colors. 

With CTS and pin/tri-loc registration switch outs are measured in minutes.

My 2 cents,

~Kitson

[tonypep]

Quite possibly but not necessarily. Depends on the business model. If it my first auto I would definitely sacrifice 2 heads for a CTS.

[GKitson]

I am wondering. If someone is getting a 14 colour just to have the ability to set up multiple jobs, wouldn't it be better to use that money to invest in a future CTS?

I really don't think setting up multiple jobs is the real advantage of a large color count machine, the real benefit is being able to say yes to jobs other shops say no to. 

~Kitson

[tonypep]

Again depends on the business model. Not the case for us.

[TCT]

I really don't think setting up multiple jobs is the real advantage of a large color count machine, the real benefit is being able to say yes to jobs other shops say no to. 

~Kitson

Totally agree with you on that point. There is also the added benefit of not needing to merge some colors in some jobs. But I guess I was thinking that the need for the full 12 colors on 1 job would be a very small percentage of jobs/usage. The majority of the time the extra colors could be used for multiple job setups. Or maybe just bragging rights:P

[screenprintguy]

WOW guys, thanks for all of the input. What you guys say means a lot to us! We invested in an I-Image CTS a year and a half ago, so we already have that going for us. Now the second auto is to keep us from having to go to two shifts. 2 shifts is not where we want to be. I see, in the long run, the labor cost out weighing the investment of a second machine. True, the two may not run at the same time all the time, but right now we have days where we suffer bottle knecking, waiting on approvals, or just longer runs, more placements ect tying up the one auto while other quick and easy, or even bigger tougher jobs sitting on carts are waiting. I think we have it nailed down now, 14 co is the way to go. But now, does it need to be 14 co, 16 station, or 12 co 16 station?  . We truley appreciate so many of you guys who have opened invites for Niki and I to come spend time at your shop and see how ya'll do things, I mentioned Danny's offer, and Niki about jumped out of her shoes, "COLORADO", lol. We've been to Denver once, when I used to be a touring DJ, I headlined a rave out there, spent a couple extra days, went to Breckenridge, area is beautiful!! Her next question was, how far is Denver from Chicago, stop by M&R for a tour on that trip  . We really want to get up there too, I'm super stoked at how excited she is about go there to see the facility and the gear in person, I couldn't have prayed harder for a cooler wife! Greg, thanks for jumping in sir, your wisdom is always treasured around here!!! It's because of your articles, and Dave from Bimmridder that we decided to make the jump to CTS when Rich came a knocking about the I-Image, and it's been the best thing we've done so far. I've been doing a whole new layout in the M&R layout software for our shop, using some ideas that some of you guys have posted in the past. We have 6,000 square feet here and have really not taken advantage of it. We are crammed in corners and got to where everyone we know would ask us to store stuff for them in extra space, but that is allllll over now. I've hired a couple extra guys to do nothing but reorganize and trash/recycle anything that people didn't want to come back and get in production downtime. Can't wait to see these changes take place. It took me a little while to get comfortable in the layout software, but now that the basic template is to spec and some gear dropped in place, I think we have a good simple plan to move forward with. Totally excited over here!!!! Thanks again guys for hoping on this thread with your thoughts and ideas. Please keep it coming if you have more.

Mike

[dirkdiggler]

Good luck Mike, Look to the sun, it will lead you in the right direction!

[screenprintguy]

Good luck Mike, Look to the sun, it will lead you in the right direction!

That's right brother, we always go to the Son for our descisions  .

Hey Alex, TCT, thanks for putting that in my head about the, "where to leave the other empty head". Man, you are right, that decision looks to be one that could drive anyone nuts!!!!!!!

[TCT]

Hey Alex, TCT, thanks for putting that in my head about the, "where to leave the other empty head". Man, you are right, that decision looks to be one that could drive anyone nuts!!!!!!!

Sure thing! Look at it this way- that is a pretty sweet problem to have!

[Underbase37]

If your going to be in CO. feel free to stop by our shop too. BTW I know I'm late on this but we bought our 12 color about 5 years ago & looking back now I wish we would have got a 14. I think both Tony and Greg have a good point. I love the option to set up multiple jobs it has its  advantages as well as saying yes to something somebody else has to say no to.

Murphy37

[screenprintguy]

If your going to be in CO. feel free to stop by our shop too. BTW I know I'm late on this but we bought our 12 color about 5 years ago & looking back now I wish we would have got a 14. I think both Tony and Greg have a good point. I love the option to set up multiple jobs it has its  advantages as well as saying yes to something somebody else has to say no to.

Murphy37

Thanks Murphy!  I really appreciate the invite.  Like Alex says,  it's time to go nuts figuring out now weather to gave all 14 heads, or designate 2 flash only sites. Normally I would not even think of x'ing 2 heads, but we will need a big dryer to replace the one we have now. It's a huge move for us, but we know its what we need to do.

[Underbase37]

I know I change my print order depending on the design a lot so I don't know how much I would like not having the heads. As for the dryer I like our sprint2000/60" its good for two press gang ups for us. But as we do more across the board jobs I kind of wish we had one of the split dryers so we could run two types of jobs at once. On the flip side of that we would not be able to gang up on the dryer belt as mush either so I don't know about that.

Murphy37

[TCT]

Like Alex says,  it's time to go nuts figuring out now weather to gave all 14 heads, or designate 2 flash only sites.

Show of hands(or numbers) let's help Mike out here.... What 2 heads would you remove on a 14 color? I would probably drop 3 and 9.

You could take off head 14 and make it a production beast!

Seriously though, if you can add the heads on in the future that is pretty cool! Also takes the stress of deciding way down...

Either way, I'm jealous!!!