IC Legacy White non-phthalate

[Screened Gear]

Chris,

I know your aware of this but I just want to say it. I have printed over 5 inks in my shop as my go to ink. I have also printed alot of many of them. Each one can be printed right out of the bucket. Now with that said, they can not all be printed with the same angle, pressure and even squeegee selection. inks that I hated at first, Became my favorite after figuring out the right adjustments needed.

For example Quick white you need more control over your pressure and angle and a softer squeegee to print with well. The legacy white is the opposite you can print hard and slow  with a hard (any} squeegee and and get that one to look fine.

Now the climbing issue is a hard one. I hate when that happens. This is not something you can fix with angle, pressure, speed or anything on press. The ink has to be modified some way to fix it. Now if they is the only problem with that ink it maybe worth the effert to add and mix a little reducer, base, another white ink or what ever to make it work.

I honestly want my white ink to be too think and hard to print out of the bucket. I want this so I can modify depending on what I am printing.

[chubsetc]

I went through a 5 of legacy sometime in the last year and it climbed like crazy out of the bucket.  Moved on try something else but would try the legacy again if I could keep it on the screen.

[ZooCity]

Totally agree ScreenedGear (Jon right?) we swap blades, mess with angle, speed and pressure for not just each ink but each substrate, each mesh count it's going through.  And absolutely, different whites like different print speeds and that alone can be a major factor in white ink selection given the impact on production time. The flood issues were the only real concern so far, the ink prints well, performs well overall and appears to have the potential to eliminate the two issues we face with Quick in production- the 'craters' in the base and poor wow performance of some top colors.  Could very well be worth it to add a little viscosity buster or some modifier to Legacy to get that flood where we need it.  Heck, I'll even toss it out there that if we were to use another squeegee to hard flood v. a metal bar, a la Doctor J, this ink might be just perfect out of the bucket.  More testing is the only way to truly evaluate. 

[pwalsh]

Thanks Peter, I'm Chris, not Alex though.  I know it's confusing with all the users here.  Manufacturer input is always great.  We do examine variables with testing new inks.

Sorry Chris, that was my bad!

Peter

[jvanick]

I'll even toss it out there that if we were to use another squeegee to hard flood v. a metal bar, a la Doctor J, this ink might be just perfect out of the bucket.

I'd be lost without our winged flood bars here... I barely remember what carding is at this point...

what I don't get is what some of us are doing wrong or right to make the ink flood correctly... some here say it works great flooding some says it doesn't (I'm in the doesn't camp, it would climb the flood bar so bad we'd have to push it back down after 30-40 shirts)... the flood on an auto seems like the most basic consistent thing (other than flood speed) that we can have... 

[Colin]

Batch inconsistencies (lots of variables here), heat in transit, Potential angle of flood bar, production/printing temp of the ink.... that and more go into why batch to batch we - the printer - can see differences on press.

I understand they have 2 production facilities, but I do not know if they produce screen printing plastisol at both..... 2 sites give you double the chance for variance.

[Underbase37]

Our experience with legacy has been, it climbs the squeegee like none other. Even with wings it would get stuck almost hovering above the screen caught in between the flood bar and the squeegee, without moding it. Legacy seems to be a very shot body ink with a few things not added to it, that I like & don't like, I feel it has no blowing/puff agents ( I'm good with that ) it also seems to not have much or any stretch additive ( I don't like ) as I feel this leads to pour wash fastness over time. It also seems to have a plasticizer that separates easy & is a bit on the low cure side, we had some strange results bc of this, I feel. Do not leave this ink sitting on a designated white squeegee, clean it off after evey time, or at the very least at the end of the day.

Murphy37

[ScreenFoo]

Weird--we were just running 2K with it yesterday, and the ink actually came down OFF the squeegee here.

Brand new batch though, came off the truck last week. 

[ZooCity]

huh.  If it's batch inconsistencies that's bad news. 

Very much agree that it could use a little more stretch properties, just on first blush, we only ran one job with the little qt we had, gallon coming in to give it another whirl.

[Frog]

About transport heat and batch inconsistencies. It can be an issue.
Enough so that to help reduce the product of being seen in a bad light, some salesmen insist that I get a full gallon as a sample because it is less likely to have been affected by temperature than a pint or even a quart.
 

[ScreenFoo]

It does seem to be VERY thixotropic.   What Underbase mentioned is interesting too--the plasticizers remind me of Trutone, but maybe not quite as aggressive.  Sets up and loosens up kind of similar, IMO, but easier on squeegees.

IME it would hang out on the sq/fl the first couple pulls, but then will pull down off of the flood and squeegee as it printed.

Was in a hurry when I mentioned that, but I should say it's definitely a 'different' printing ink from the WM/QCM/old 711 I've printed much more of.

[Doug S]

I'm using legacy in a non-climate controlled environment.  When I'm using it during the winter months, I really have to have them pallets warm and keep it in a room with a space heater to print with it but it's a printers dream in the warmer months.  It floods like a dream and I really think with a little finessing that this would be the white I would attempt a 1 hit white.

[screenprintguy]

Maybe it's a supplier issue. We've been using Legacy now for well over a year and it rocks! We order it from Spot color supply, it's in International Coating's EOM 5 Gal buckets so it's not out of a bulk pour down by a second or third party I would guess. I opened a new 5er mid winter and it was as loose and cream as it is now that it's hot. I run it through 280 and 305's for high light's with a color or two printing after it and no stick issues. Sometimes I may take a quart out and add a little flow additive or reducer it the run will be a few hundred pieces to avoid any, "chance" of build up of it as a highlight, but other than that, I've never needed to modify it. If put enough in your screen you shouldn't have any flood issues, especially once it gets moving. Someone will have to come up with something better to make me switch it's the bomb, High opacity, great UB for at least 4 wet on wet colors on top before another flash. I know a couple guys here that use it, Dirkdiggler showed me a pic today of a 10 color I would assume UB is legacy and he ran that sweet print 1 revolution 2 flashes. I know I've had issues ordering the same brand of products through other distributors and it not being exact, I'm wondering if this could be an issue. It goes far too lol. I don't think I've seen 5 gals of white last as long as Legacy so far for me.

[ZooCity]

Batch consistency is the issue.

Lot#:  1401023NP  Thick, caulk-like, exhibits aforementioned flooding issues, needs reducer/viscosity buster/etc.

Lot#: 1503105NP  Creamy, smooth, very similar to Quick White if not improved in it's creaminess.

Explains the varying experiences with this ink.

I trust Nazdar is not doing anything to the ink in handling to create the difference, it's most likely coming into to them inconsistently batch to batch. 

Funny we had all this conversation about what each other might be doing differently, "right" or "wrong", shop climate and advice to change other variables but for the most part it appears we all used different inks sold as the same.  The first batch (sample) we received was not useable out of the bucket.  Next batch is totally different and looks great. 

[ScreenFoo]

That stinks.  Got out of IC's 711 years ago because of batch inconsistencies.

Then again, could still be handling and not Nazdar's fault--you never know what happened to that ink if it's going UPS or Fedex...