Author Topic: Cheap is cheap for a reason  (Read 3470 times)

Offline sweetts

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Cheap is cheap for a reason
« on: October 19, 2011, 07:32:42 AM »
Yet another Lesson learned for me as midnight approached. So after the big stink with discharge printing last night I decide to make the same design with plastisol and I wanted to burn a lower mesh screen for my under base. I gab one of the 8 newest screens I have that I purchased at a show this year, I got a real good deal on them. Now I only used this new screen ONCE before, I lay it up on the exposure unit and there she is warped, a lot. So I throw it to the side and grab a new one which also had one reclaim,,,,warped so all in all 3 warped frames. I have been thinking about going with roller frames or the shur loc system and I think this just sealed the deal. WHAT A NIGHT eeerrrrr. So went stopped at 1:30 and up at 4 to burn new screens so I can print after my real job today. I love printing I just wish lessons could be learned on jobs that are not rush orders at 11 o'clock at night. I feel these suppliers catering to the "home printer" are doing a huge disservice by selling crap, I am learning more and realizing I may have been taken with some of my "less expensive" alternatives. Thanks for listening to me whine .     


Lessons will be repeated until learned.
RT Screen Designs
Willowick Ohio
www.rtscreendesigns.com


Offline inkman996

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2011, 08:36:33 AM »
I am assuming you are talking wood frames?

If so can you hear all the "I told you so's" in the back ground?
"No man is an island"

Offline GraphicDisorder

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2011, 08:42:37 AM »
I am assuming you are talking wood frames?

If so can you hear all the "I told you so's" in the back ground?

Like Printex's.

LOL Sorry had to Mike. 
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Offline mk162

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2011, 08:55:40 AM »
Hey, I know people who turn out awesome work on wood frames.  I don't like them, I prefer aluminum.

Offline inkman996

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2011, 09:00:05 AM »
Ah but Brad my point was not about what can be done with wood I as well have printed a plenty on wood, my point was about the fact they will most likely warp or rack.  ;)

I have no production screens left that are wood in our shop, but I still have a few odd shaped or length ones. I have some 36 inchers that strangely I bought for our new press and they do not fit go figure.
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Offline mk162

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2011, 09:11:16 AM »
I agree, for the price difference, I don't know why most shops still buy wood.  I like dealing with the lightweight-ness of the aluminum....and they don't absorb chemicals.

Offline Socalfmf

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2011, 09:41:42 AM »
so just to touch on this...so you trying to save money just cost you a ton of money...I am a firm believer of having the right tools for the job...I would rather spend a little more to make my life easier and faster...

good lesson learned here..

Sam

Offline mk162

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 09:58:10 AM »
Sam, if that was directed at me, I tried higher tensions.  I hated it.  I talked to about a half dozen folks about why my prints were worse with 30N mesh than with 15N mesh.

I have found the tools that work for me...and in the process I am incredibly embarrassed that what many deem the "correct" tools were an utter failure for me.

Offline Socalfmf

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2011, 10:00:36 AM »
not at all Brad...I said by the RIGHT tools...in my opinion wood frames are not the right tools....again the screens are just 1 part of the system as Alan has stated....you have to have a system with great tools....that is all...

Sam

Offline mk162

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2011, 10:21:56 AM »
To be honest, when I realized I failed with higher tensions, it was a HUGE shot to my ego.  I expected it to just magically make prints brighter, more opaque, easier registration, blah, blah. 

I will be revisiting them in the future though.  Right now I am working on other things to make life better/easier/cheaper.

Offline inkman996

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2011, 10:39:58 AM »
I am with you Brad. I tried the rollers for a while had 50 M3's and eventually sold them off. I feel that high tension is a choice not a necessity!

It is not a necessity because the same work can still be done with either statics or panel frames as we have. It may take different procedures to set up jobs or whatever.

Choosing higher tensions means you have to agree to the procedures involved in keeping them maintained and that simply is not something everyone wants to do.

Brad one thing I noticed when cranking up some high tensions on my rollers was that it really showed the flaws in my press at the time, to use high ass tensions you really also need to have your press in perfect parallel as well other wise you are still printing with higher than necessary pressures to compensate for unevenness. This adds a whole nother layer to the things you need to do while using high tension screens.

All just my .02
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Offline 3Deep

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2011, 10:52:59 AM »
Correct TOOLS!!! I here this all the time what if we didn't have the correct tools, would we still get the job done?  Wood frames have been around forever and will stay forever I still use wood frames along with the the other frames and I can't tell you once everything has been printed from which screen they came from.  I agree with Brad on high tension...now this could be me, but I have problems working with 305,s and higher mesh counts, so I stay with 230 and down.  Well I guessing the right tools for ones shop may not be the right tools for someone else shop  hmmmm.

Darryl
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 10:55:30 AM by 3Deep »
Life is like Kool-Aid, gotta add sugar/hardwork to make it sweet!!

Offline Homer

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2011, 11:24:08 AM »
I just bought a bunch of rollers. I am hoping to learn how to dial my press in to make them useful. I have converted my shop entirely to panel frames. I made my reg unit work with them, our coating techniques, my whole "19" scoop coater = no tape " system works flawlessly with the panels. But I set my shop up this way. i coated the rollers the other day, you guys would die laughing at the mess I made and now I need tape. so we'll see how it goes. worst case, I sell them to Sam.

and as far as wood frames being useful-  amazing prints were being made on wood frames back in the day. . .but surgery was also done with sharp rocks and biting on a bullet - so I like to take advantage of the technology we have and grow with the times. R&D has been done to make my life easier -and I am going to take advantage of that.
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...

Offline Socalfmf

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2011, 11:42:51 AM »
Brad and Mike...it isnt really about high high tensions it is about consistency.  We have all our screens dialed in within 2 newtons of each other...that makes for faster set ups, which then leads to faster printing thus leading to more output through the day...again the right tools....we can ensure that they are the same by using roller frames vs. statics as they loose tension at different rates. 

and Jay you suck...sell the roller frames NOW...cause I need some more...also send me those pix...your pal Sam

thanks guys..

Sam

Offline Homer

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Re: Cheap is cheap for a reason
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2011, 12:22:56 PM »
on the way. .
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...