BEWARE OF THE PROOF YOU GET FROM STAHLS

[mooseman]

Want to share a situation with Stahls where they had a perfect opportunity to provide some nickle dime customer service and fix a issue worth a total value of $86.66 hard money for me puny money for Stahls.

The long story is below if you care to read more ...........the short story goes like this
 
Ordered 35 digitals sent CDR file with PMS color specs

requested a proof

Stahls produced the images and shipped them without sending proof. I only discovered this when I got an e-mail from Stahls telling me my order shipped ???

Immediately called Stahls...OOPS we see you wanted a proof we can send you one now by e-mail but your order is already on the way.

They did and fortunately it was OK everything looked pretty good, I approved post shipping the proof

The package  arrives two days later, crack the package and THE ACTUAL IMAGES DO NOT MATCH THE PROOF THEY SENT  >:(

Back on the phone..........take pictures.... send them by email  we have lots more phone conversations .

Bottom line is Stahls said they printed the colors I specified, you sent PMS specs and we matched them close as we can.

I asked then why does your product not match my art or YOUR ART proof sent after the fact?????

They say read our disclaimer we print CMYK which is not directly transferrable from PMS we come close as we can just like the disclaimer says

long conversations here..............................................but

management says no reprint best we will do is give you 25% off on a reorder

I say no thank you can keep the money you have from me but no more.


The 3 images below tell my story in colors . mooseman is very unhappy with Stahls pi$$ poor product in this case and they are hiding behind their disclaimer so BEWARE...it look like they don't care...call me Ted you have my number ;)

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The background

ordered 35 digital transfers

sent them a CDR file in color

I specified PMS colors......

The order was placed with a  proof required before production, this is not a contested issue

got an e-mail stating my order had shipped...they did not send me a proof prior to shipping my order

I called them.....

They quickly e-mailed me a proof...

I reviewed the proof they sent, it was PERFECT....all is going to be OK...

35 printed products arrive.....

The actual product DOES NOT MATCH THE STAHLS PROOF THEY SENT NOR THE ART I SENT THEM, one color is way too dark should be blue is actually black on the actual product

I call stahls...

They say they have a disclaimer that colors are not the colors  ....blaw blaw blaw

They say it looks OK on their computer, they can’t control how the proof looks on my computer again the disclaimer.........and I have to understand that they print in CMYK and they match PMS colors close as the can but it is not an exact match.
This really pi$$ed me off because in later conversations they claim to have printed the very PMS color I specified...BULL SQUIRT

Again I say your product does not match the proof I approved from your e-mail

they ask for pictures...I send pictures (SEE THE VERY PICS SENT TO STAHLS ATTACHED BELOW HERE)

They come back and say the color is actually the PMS color I specified it is a very dark blue and is very close to black so I got what I asked for .

I say it is not the way it looks in my art and in your proof representation of the actual product.
My art and your proof match perfectly it is your product that is the odd element.

They say we printed the color you specified
I say no you did not I specified the color in my art and in my approval of your proof
please explain why then your proof does not match the product?
Again the disclaimer because the image looks OK on our computer and they are not responsible for the image on my computer.
Oddly enough ALL the other colors are spot on ?????????
I say you did not send me your computer you sent me a proof representing the product you proposed to print against my order....

After several more  phone conversations they say tough darts ...you can have 25% refund on this order or 25% on a reorder if I want and they are going to send me free of charge their color chart .

I say what good is the color chart if I can’t trust the proof you use to represent my order.

BOTTOM LINE...I am keeping the transfers as sent will direct print the logo without their help and Stahls can keep their 25% generosity.

The images are attached and I fully stand behind what I post here.

Even more disappointing the person I was working with used a very unfortunate term to describe
what they thought I was doing to them.

 Be sure if you work with Stahls you understand the proof they send against your order does not necessarily represent the product you get . Says so according to them in their disclaimer.

If I am mis-representing any element of this situation Stahls certainly has the opportunity and ability to teach me a valuable lesson. They are bigger and stronger than me and if their recorded record for training and evaluation of our conversations proves me wrong they will have no absolutely no trouble crushing a little bug like me. How about it Stahls send me a copy of your recordings we can continue from there.

[mimosatexas]

I wouldnt say their proof was correct.  If thats a dark blue, it might as well just be black.  What you sent has a navy, not black or close to it.  To be fair to stahls, or anyone else printing digitally, hitting PMS is basically impossible.  In our shop we have 3 different roland vinyl printers, a dye sub printer, 2 DTG's, assorted inkjets and lasers, etc and they all print the same art differently, sometimes extremely differently.

That said, you aren't happy, what the print is obviously in need of tweaks, and it's less than $100 (it probably cost them next to nothing honestly).  Hell, even our tiny shop would fix an error like this on a job this small without batting an eye.

edit:  In the future, you can get an "okay" idea of how a file will print by using photo paper on an inkjet and converting the file to cmyk before printing.  It will mute the tones a bit and youll see color shifts that happen due to that color profile.  Would probably have shown you the file you sent needed that blue to be lightened a bit to print properly.  Again, not PMS accurate, but better.

[mooseman]

I wouldnt say their proof was correct.  If thats a dark blue, it might as well just be black.  What you sent has a navy, not black or close to it.  To be fair to stahls, or anyone else printing digitally, hitting PMS is basically impossible.  In our shop we have 3 different roland vinyl printers, a dye sub printer, 2 DTG's, assorted inkjets and lasers, etc and they all print the same art differently, sometimes extremely differently.

That said, you aren't happy, what the print is obviously in need of tweaks, and it's less than $100 (it probably cost them next to nothing honestly).  Hell, even our tiny shop would fix an error like this on a job this small without batting an eye.

edit:  In the future, you can get an "okay" idea of how a file will print by using photo paper on an inkjet and converting the file to cmyk before printing.  It will mute the tones a bit and youll see color shifts that happen due to that color profile.  Would probably have shown you the file you sent needed that blue to be lightened a bit to print properly.  Again, not PMS accurate, but better.

This was just a total unhappy situation. You are correct the $ to Sthals was squat. While the person I was working with was very polite a line got crossed when the term blackmail was interjected.
Again lets go to the tape...when the deal was all said and done they offered 25% and we said no thanks i said if I show the proof and the product to 100 people in the business thay are going to say there is a mismatch there. That is when the retort of blackmail was thrown out. we made no threats or demands ...lets go to the tape......in fairnedd the person I was working with apologized sincerely and agreed it was a most misfortunate use of words. I take her completely sincere she was cought im the middle between me and her supervisor and it is hard to be a ping pong ball. I asked to talk with her super but was refused.

 look they are mostly a good company but it is no secret they have a very high opinion of themselves and generally an attitude to go with it. I have been a small customer for many years and quite honestly dread pushing that button to confirm an order because the results that action can bring this is simply a confirmation of that fear.

While the proof did not match my art and PMS and CMYK do not marry up well I was OK with the variation my art vs their proof BUT the bottom line is the finished product did not match the Stahls proof . screw the disclaimer....
i will send anyone who wants one , one of the 34 images I have left and so to be fair to stahls and give them the opportunity to face their accuser i print my stahls customer number here 342913, customer since 2004.
mooseman

[mimosatexas]

I think their proof looks closer to the finished product than to your supplied art honestly.  Again, they should have corrected it, but I don't see a huge difference in their proof vs what you pressed.

[whitewater]

this is one reason i just dont offer this... I knwo alot of you guys do.. But to me there is a variable of having them do it is too much of a risk... One time i ordered transfers and it did not look like the colors i sent.. i showed customer before i did all the shirts. So after that...nope..

[screenxpress]

Is this digital vinyl transfers?

[prozyan]

I think their proof looks closer to the finished product than to your supplied art honestly.

I have to agree with this. 

[mooseman]

I will take the hit on the images as posted the pics like the proof don't tell the story,The proof and my original art image are really pretty close or i would have not approved it. the e-mail proof shows  navy blue , the products are printed black where blue should be that is the only product issue with Stahls .

The photo I posted of the actual transfer as applied is overall too  dark also as the white substrate is Stahls bright white tackle twill but in the posted pics it looks grey. At any rate the product and the proof in real life are different so to my point what value is the proof if it needs not acurately represent the product.
I spent today printing a 6 color left chest image the custy rejected the black color in place of the blue. The customer is always right.
mooseman

[Homer]

main issue, you sent a CDR. Corel color profiles are the WORST for digital printing. We struggle with it whenever I create anything for the sign dept, colors are always jacked. what pms # did you call out for that navy blue? I'll look at our chart and see what it looks  like through our rip..

[mooseman]

Hey Homer
Corel colors are not the issue, I have bought many digitials from Stahls using the only art I know, Corel and have  never had this issue before, Stahls even mentioned  that fact in our conversations, and I quote "you know how this works you buy a lot of these digitals from us"
This all comes down to one simple fact
Stahls never sent the proof before shipping, no problem I looked at the proof they sent while the digitals were enroute, I looked at it I was HAPPY with it, it looked OK I had no problem.

I am not trying to be a d%^$ about this but I am pissed with the announcement by Stahls that their  disclaimer trumps the proof.
If I never cought the "we have shipped you order " e-mail from Stahls and called them, and the digitals arrived without my approval this would have been a whole different story.

Stahls messed up and printed without a proof and shipped an order without approval. When the product arrived and it did not match the post shippment proof they showed me. Then they doubled down and jumped to their disclaimer. Yes I am pissed not because of the money involved but with the bull crap they laid down over a lowsey $86.00 retail amount order. None of us here I think would do this to a customer of any size who had been buying from us for 13 years with absolutely no other issues.
 

[screenxpress]

the bull crap they laid down over a lowsey (lousy) $86.00 retail amount order.

This says it all to me.  Minus 1 star on Customer Service.