Author Topic: Black ink questions...  (Read 4173 times)

Offline blue moon

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Re: Black ink questions...
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2018, 11:02:01 AM »
I have been pondering the whole flash/heat source thing....

IR panels are slow-ish to flash, but definitely more stable then quartz...

Engineering wise, can we put a cover in front of the bulbs that changes its wavelength?  Like we do for safe lights in the dark room.  We would still be getting the intense heat from the bulbs so, obviously adding some forced air would help, like has been added to newer quartz flash units.  At that point we would also want to run very close - shorter distance between bulbs and substrate...

It would potentially help with flashing of black AND the more delicate fabric blends out there.  Specifically, there are carbon colored fabric blends that looooooooove to melt under quartz bulbs...  its obviously to much to ask for from fabric makers right? ;)

It may not be a miracle cure for mankind.... but a huge assist for Printerkind :)

Anyways.... its a thought.

covers filter the light, so anything we don't want coming out is blocked. 'pretty sure there is no way to change the wavelength in a way that would be meaningful to us.
While going through different medium, light will change the wavelength while maintaining the frequency. For example, going from air to water will impact the light as it will travel slower due to the differential in density. So going from light to ink, it will slow down. The question is, how will this relate to what we are looking for? Is the lower wavelength what we want or is it opposite? If the change is in the right direction, could making the deposit thicker or adding some clear gel on the top help solve the problem???

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!


Offline Colin

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Re: Black ink questions...
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2018, 11:32:05 AM »
A thicker deposit will always help.... there is more volume to cross link and that takes more time.  So from a visual perspective, that works for not torching the delicate fabrics.

Printing a layer of anything on top would again slow down the crosslinking, but kinda defeats where the black is in the print order..... You and I both don't want a heavy deposit, but we want a durable deposit for wash durability ( i know wet on wet black doesn't help this that much ;) ).

If the assumption is that black absorbs all wavelengths, if reducing some of that helps to slow down the crosslinking.... The core idea is, will reducing light as a factor, leaving just the bulbs as a heat source with fans creating an active heating area, create a better flash environment for dark inks that crosslink faster under quartz bulbs.

We know that infrared flashes do just fine with black ink - but are slower than most people want and are also Always On.  Can we re-create some of that environment with a more active heat zone?

Just a thought - I could be way off base :)
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now the Ink and Chemical Product Manager at Ryonet.

Offline blue moon

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Re: Black ink questions...
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2018, 11:46:47 AM »
A thicker deposit will always help.... there is more volume to cross link and that takes more time.  So from a visual perspective, that works for not torching the delicate fabrics.

Printing a layer of anything on top would again slow down the crosslinking, but kinda defeats where the black is in the print order..... You and I both don't want a heavy deposit, but we want a durable deposit for wash durability ( i know wet on wet black doesn't help this that much ;) ).

If the assumption is that black absorbs all wavelengths, if reducing some of that helps to slow down the crosslinking.... The core idea is, will reducing light as a factor, leaving just the bulbs as a heat source with fans creating an active heating area, create a better flash environment for dark inks that crosslink faster under quartz bulbs.

We know that infrared flashes do just fine with black ink - but are slower than most people want and are also Always On.  Can we re-create some of that environment with a more active heat zone?

Just a thought - I could be way off base :)

got it! That makes sense! Bulbs as heat source should work. Now, who's going to make them?

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Colin

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Re: Black ink questions...
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2018, 03:14:49 PM »
*Looks around at Ryonet and Action*

Both Ryonet and Action are pretty quick with making adjustments to and for equipment.  I know M&R could come up with it, but they have quite a bit going on already ;)

Other than that..... *crickets*.....
Been in the industry since 1996.  5+ years with QCM Inks.  Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator.  I am now the Ink and Chemical Product Manager at Ryonet.

Offline ScreenFoo

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Re: Black ink questions...
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2018, 06:23:57 PM »
What's the effective difference between a heating bulb that emits no light and nichrome wire?

It sounds like a joke, but I have no punchline.  Sorry.

Offline ebscreen

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Re: Black ink questions...
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2018, 06:30:38 PM »
What's the effective difference between a heating bulb that emits no light and nichrome wire?

It sounds like a joke, but I have no punchline.  Sorry.

How thin the wire is?

FWIW our Calmat flashes with the carbon ribbon elements that are very much on the dull-red end of the spectrum always
had very little issue with singeing. Very fast for 50 amp single phase as well.