Cleaning roller frames

[BorisB]

To me, using Roller Frames is an “old school” style.

What's old is new again??

All claims below are for my location (central Europe) and my shop.

Current meshes keep tension on static frames when properly stretched.
Current meshes with thin thread are not fragile when handled responsibly.
Current inks are not as thick and in general easier to print.
Screen stretching services are better, faster, cheaper than ever before. And available within 1-2 days of rather cheap shipping.
Same goes for aluminum frames.

If I started out today, knowing what I know, my shop would use statics only. As my shop is close to 30 years old, it’s a result of legacy, gradual development,  evolution of processes and technology, and as such not optimal. That’s why we use old school roller frames ( some 200+ M3 type) and static frames (also some 200+), which we buy from same supplier.
Each shop has it’s own philosophy, ways of running business and definition of success.
This is, again, valid for my shop.

[ffokazak]

We pay 44$ for 2 yards of S mesh from river city... ( 225S)   I get 6 screens ( 23x31) out of that. Mesh costs 7.33$

If I pay a low wage employee to do them they can do them in 15 min each.  so 4$ labour per. ( this almost triples with two employees, but well leave that there)

Buy them for 20$ used. ( I've been using them for 5 years, so yes I own the frames already. But once they are paid for that cost is out of the question, they dont go bad under normal use)

$12.33 per frame,( Once taped )  REGARDLESS of the added advantages of using roller frames... Spot colour is at 35$ before shipping.

I don't see how this is even a discussion.... Even with the fact that S mesh sags almost immediately and re tensioning takes barely any time...

[BorisB]

We pay 44$ for 2 yards of S mesh from river city... ( 225S)   I get 6 screens ( 23x31) out of that. Mesh costs 7.33$

If I pay a low wage employee to do them they can do them in 15 min each.  so 4$ labour per. ( this almost triples with two employees, but well leave that there)

Buy them for 20$ used. ( I've been using them for 5 years, so yes I own the frames already. But once they are paid for that cost is out of the question, they dont go bad under normal use)

$12.33 per frame,( Once taped )  REGARDLESS of the added advantages of using roller frames... Spot colour is at 35$ before shipping.

I don't see how this is even a discussion.... Even with the fact that S mesh sags almost immediately and re tensioning takes barely any time...

One comment and one question:
You compared price of new static vs. used NRF. I would guess used static is $5-$8?
And question: can your $15/h employee do something, that you charge to customer? Restretching is something you cannot.

[screenprintguy]

Found an awesome product for removing everything but the paint on frames, your press everything. Rapid Remover. It's intended for the vinyl vehicle wrapping to not hurt the finish on cars. Works awesome. My Roq tech told me about it. Also, for mesh panels, we tried the SAATI Hidro, and standard SAATI mesh in the sewn Nortech panels. You can order them direct from SAATI. Same on press outcome as we got from S Mesh, but a lot less expensive, and seem to be more durable. Check them out, you'd be super shocked at the price!!

[ffokazak]

My employees are paid to produce products, sure. They are also paid to maintain our space, clean up, clean around equipment, some even do regular maintenance on our machines... I see value in maintaining our most important aspect of quality prints...

[lancasterprinthouse]

Found an awesome product for removing everything but the paint on frames, your press everything. Rapid Remover. It's intended for the vinyl vehicle wrapping to not hurt the finish on cars. Works awesome. My Roq tech told me about it. Also, for mesh panels, we tried the SAATI Hidro, and standard SAATI mesh in the sewn Nortech panels. You can order them direct from SAATI. Same on press outcome as we got from S Mesh, but a lot less expensive, and seem to be more durable. Check them out, you'd be super shocked at the price!!

Thanks! I’ll check this out.

I wonder if threads on a train conductors forum ever derail?


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[lancasterprinthouse]

Have you tried acetone?   

My go-to solvent for dirty & sticky things (frames, presses, etc) is XYLENE (also known as XYLOL).
It's not as volatile as Acetone, so it won't evaporate as fast as Acetone. You have time to scrub it in.
It's cheap... about $20/gal at Home Depot

*** It does require really good ventilation, gloves, safety eyewear and a respirator.  Dirty rags require proper storage and disposal.

I’m going to look into this as well. This is cheap enough that I could soak the bars before trying to clean it off.


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[RICK STEFANICK]

 It does require really good ventilation, gloves, safety eyewear and a respirator.  Dirty rags require proper storage and disposal.

LOL..I'm sorry you lost me at respirator

[Doug S]

Found an awesome product for removing everything but the paint on frames, your press everything. Rapid Remover. It's intended for the vinyl vehicle wrapping to not hurt the finish on cars. Works awesome. My Roq tech told me about it. Also, for mesh panels, we tried the SAATI Hidro, and standard SAATI mesh in the sewn Nortech panels. You can order them direct from SAATI. Same on press outcome as we got from S Mesh, but a lot less expensive, and seem to be more durable. Check them out, you'd be super shocked at the price!!

 I agree 100% about the rapid remover.  That stuff is great for removing residue off of frames.  We use it for vinyl adhesive remover as well.  It doesn't smell near as harsh as others I've tried.  Also, if you use a magic eraser to go along with that it really does the trick.

[screenprintguy]

I swear I saw a thread on this in the past on here but a search turned up nothing of benefit.

I just bought a load of used MZX frames and now I realize why I never buy used. Anyways, no reason to cry over spilt milk so I’m looking for the fastest and easiest way to clean them up. My thought was to get a Rubbermaid that fits the longest bars, take them all apart and let them soak for a few days in a cleaner or some kind. Question is, what kind or brand? After that I was thinking power washing them might be the fastest way but I’m looking for suggestions.

Anybody ever clean up more than a handful before?





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We always clean them once we have to re-stretch them. Right now I have 30 that need re-stretetching. Cleaned them all with spot cleaning fluid plus a quick rinse with the pressure washer. Works like a charm

When I have to remesh my own frames it doesn’t take long to clean them but you should see these frames. They’ll easily take 30-45 minutes per frame. The photos in the ad didn’t look this bad. Might just put them away for a slow day project and buy some new ones. We’re way too busy to spend this kind of time on these right now


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I don`t understand how this can happen in the first place. I tell my guys part of cleaning screens is as well the actual frame. I get a minor freak out when I find ink on the frames after they have been cleaned.

Same. I can’t stand frames that are dirty. The way these frames are makes me wonder what this shop looks like. I can’t even handle them without getting dirty or sticky from the tape residue. How you produce quality work with frames like this is beyond me.


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Josh, sorry you aren't happy with the frames you got. You wanted the, black bolt only frames, which in our emails I told you weren't cleaned up, but were only, FIFTEEN BUCKS EACH. If you wanted new frames, well, like I did when I bought them a few years ago, pony up the dough for new frames. When you are running a shop that is literally processing hundreds of screens a week,who has time to , "buff their frames"? If you have that time, then you need more print work. This does kind of agrivate me, since I'v been a member of this forum since it's first day. I've also worked and built relationships with a LOT of members here over the past 15 years that we've been running our shop, so to make some of the jabs you have made over, 30 screen frames, is sort of sad. You got a deal and a half on 23x31 MZX Ultralight frames at 15 bucks each. You even stated in emails, you didn't expect them to be perfect, but now I'm reading jabs about our shop, and what not. Let me paste in some of our emails. You may ask why I'd even take the time to do it, but reputation and relationships being stepped on, over 30 frames, bro, I'll send you your money back, it's not that big of a deal, really! 

On Oct 14, 2019, at 2:57 PM, mike@evolutionaryscreenprinting.net wrote:

Hey Josh, so in between set ups I’ve been grabbing frames. So it looks like I’ve pulled about 75 of the mzx all round tube ultra lights, that have the black bolt/raw aluminum finished rollers.Keep in mind these are coming or have come out of production and I haven’t had time to really scrub and sticky remove them. I’ll at least make sure there isn’t a bunch of wet ink all over them, The frames are all great, but like I said, coming out of production without the ultrascrub I just want you to know they aren’t brand new, hence the big discounted price because as we know, time is money. Let me know if you are still good.
 
Thanks Josh!
 
Mike

Your reply

From: Josh Seacat <josh@lancasterprinthouse.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 3:19 PM
To: mike@evolutionaryscreenprinting.net
Subject: Re: Frames
 
Hey Mike, sounds good. Totally understand. As long as they are mechanically sound. I.e., not dented, stripped bolts, warped bars, etc.
 
I think I will take 30 right now but if it’s OK with you I may be back for some more after I check out the first 30.
 
What’s your PayPal or method of payment? Once you have them boxed up let me know how many shipping labels you need.
 
Thanks!
Josh Seacat
Lancaster Print House
717-571-0080



So like I mentioned above, at 15 bucks a frame, that there is really nothing but tape glue on them, maybe a little big of ink from anything yanked right out of a pile pre-reclaim. I only wish we had enough time in a day to make screen frames look brand new all the time, but processing the amount of jobs we are doing now, it's all we can do to keep the cycle going. And the big point is, you insisted on only having, "black bolt", which honestly should have been more than 15 each and agreed to accept screens that weren't perfectly clean.

[lancasterprinthouse]

I swear I saw a thread on this in the past on here but a search turned up nothing of benefit.

I just bought a load of used MZX frames and now I realize why I never buy used. Anyways, no reason to cry over spilt milk so I’m looking for the fastest and easiest way to clean them up. My thought was to get a Rubbermaid that fits the longest bars, take them all apart and let them soak for a few days in a cleaner or some kind. Question is, what kind or brand? After that I was thinking power washing them might be the fastest way but I’m looking for suggestions.

Anybody ever clean up more than a handful before?





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We always clean them once we have to re-stretch them. Right now I have 30 that need re-stretetching. Cleaned them all with spot cleaning fluid plus a quick rinse with the pressure washer. Works like a charm

When I have to remesh my own frames it doesn’t take long to clean them but you should see these frames. They’ll easily take 30-45 minutes per frame. The photos in the ad didn’t look this bad. Might just put them away for a slow day project and buy some new ones. We’re way too busy to spend this kind of time on these right now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don`t understand how this can happen in the first place. I tell my guys part of cleaning screens is as well the actual frame. I get a minor freak out when I find ink on the frames after they have been cleaned.

Same. I can’t stand frames that are dirty. The way these frames are makes me wonder what this shop looks like. I can’t even handle them without getting dirty or sticky from the tape residue. How you produce quality work with frames like this is beyond me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Josh, sorry you aren't happy with the frames you got. You wanted the, black bolt only frames, which in our emails I told you weren't cleaned up, but were only, FIFTEEN BUCKS EACH. If you wanted new frames, well, like I did when I bought them a few years ago, pony up the dough for new frames. When you are running a shop that is literally processing hundreds of screens a week,who has time to , "buff their frames"? If you have that time, then you need more print work. This does kind of agrivate me, since I'v been a member of this forum since it's first day. I've also worked and built relationships with a LOT of members here over the past 15 years that we've been running our shop, so to make some of the jabs you have made over, 30 screen frames, is sort of sad. You got a deal and a half on 23x31 MZX Ultralight frames at 15 bucks each. You even stated in emails, you didn't expect them to be perfect, but now I'm reading jabs about our shop, and what not. Let me paste in some of our emails. You may ask why I'd even take the time to do it, but reputation and relationships being stepped on, over 30 frames, bro, I'll send you your money back, it's not that big of a deal, really! 

On Oct 14, 2019, at 2:57 PM, mike@evolutionaryscreenprinting.net wrote:

Hey Josh, so in between set ups I’ve been grabbing frames. So it looks like I’ve pulled about 75 of the mzx all round tube ultra lights, that have the black bolt/raw aluminum finished rollers.Keep in mind these are coming or have come out of production and I haven’t had time to really scrub and sticky remove them. I’ll at least make sure there isn’t a bunch of wet ink all over them, The frames are all great, but like I said, coming out of production without the ultrascrub I just want you to know they aren’t brand new, hence the big discounted price because as we know, time is money. Let me know if you are still good.
 
Thanks Josh!
 
Mike

Your reply

From: Josh Seacat <josh@lancasterprinthouse.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 3:19 PM
To: mike@evolutionaryscreenprinting.net
Subject: Re: Frames
 
Hey Mike, sounds good. Totally understand. As long as they are mechanically sound. I.e., not dented, stripped bolts, warped bars, etc.
 
I think I will take 30 right now but if it’s OK with you I may be back for some more after I check out the first 30.
 
What’s your PayPal or method of payment? Once you have them boxed up let me know how many shipping labels you need.
 
Thanks!
Josh Seacat
Lancaster Print House
717-571-0080



So like I mentioned above, at 15 bucks a frame, that there is really nothing but tape glue on them, maybe a little big of ink from anything yanked right out of a pile pre-reclaim. I only wish we had enough time in a day to make screen frames look brand new all the time, but processing the amount of jobs we are doing now, it's all we can do to keep the cycle going. And the big point is, you insisted on only having, "black bolt", which honestly should have been more than 15 each and agreed to accept screens that weren't perfectly clean.

Bottom line, photos were misleading. Very misleading. I see black bolts in the photos and those frames look good. The frames I have I can’t even use as is. I don’t have the time to buff them and had the photos not been misleading I wouldn’t have bought them in the first place. The price shouldn’t matter, the ad was misleading. If you sold these for $15 the ones in the photo should be worth double that.


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[screenprintguy]

Dude, send them back, I'll send you your money back. YOU wanted 'black bolt only frames, AND ACCEPTED the fact that they mostly getting pulled out of production. Seriously, missleading? See now you AGAIN, are putting my integrity in question, over 450 bucks, 30 screen frames, which you clearly knew weren't coming to you spotless. Seriously, I'll send you ups tags, as soon as they land back here, I'll send you your money back. here you go, he's asking 30 a frame, for frames in way worse looking and are NOT ultralight frames. People are literally negotiating a higher amount than even the 15 you paid for frames that just have to be cleaned. http://www.digitsmith.com/attachments/42986d1466693188-200-23x31-newman-roller-frames-mzx-photo-1.jpg

[Rockers]

We don`t buff our frames but certainly make sure there is no ink on the actual frame once they have been cleaned. Kind of goes hand in hand with cleaning the mesh, at least in our shop.

[Rockers]

I swear I saw a thread on this in the past on here but a search turned up nothing of benefit.

I just bought a load of used MZX frames and now I realize why I never buy used. Anyways, no reason to cry over spilt milk so I’m looking for the fastest and easiest way to clean them up. My thought was to get a Rubbermaid that fits the longest bars, take them all apart and let them soak for a few days in a cleaner or some kind. Question is, what kind or brand? After that I was thinking power washing them might be the fastest way but I’m looking for suggestions.

Anybody ever clean up more than a handful before?





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We always clean them once we have to re-stretch them. Right now I have 30 that need re-stretetching. Cleaned them all with spot cleaning fluid plus a quick rinse with the pressure washer. Works like a charm

When I have to remesh my own frames it doesn’t take long to clean them but you should see these frames. They’ll easily take 30-45 minutes per frame. The photos in the ad didn’t look this bad. Might just put them away for a slow day project and buy some new ones. We’re way too busy to spend this kind of time on these right now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don`t understand how this can happen in the first place. I tell my guys part of cleaning screens is as well the actual frame. I get a minor freak out when I find ink on the frames after they have been cleaned.

Same. I can’t stand frames that are dirty. The way these frames are makes me wonder what this shop looks like. I can’t even handle them without getting dirty or sticky from the tape residue. How you produce quality work with frames like this is beyond me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Josh, sorry you aren't happy with the frames you got. You wanted the, black bolt only frames, which in our emails I told you weren't cleaned up, but were only, FIFTEEN BUCKS EACH. If you wanted new frames, well, like I did when I bought them a few years ago, pony up the dough for new frames. When you are running a shop that is literally processing hundreds of screens a week,who has time to , "buff their frames"? If you have that time, then you need more print work. This does kind of agrivate me, since I'v been a member of this forum since it's first day. I've also worked and built relationships with a LOT of members here over the past 15 years that we've been running our shop, so to make some of the jabs you have made over, 30 screen frames, is sort of sad. You got a deal and a half on 23x31 MZX Ultralight frames at 15 bucks each. You even stated in emails, you didn't expect them to be perfect, but now I'm reading jabs about our shop, and what not. Let me paste in some of our emails. You may ask why I'd even take the time to do it, but reputation and relationships being stepped on, over 30 frames, bro, I'll send you your money back, it's not that big of a deal, really! 

On Oct 14, 2019, at 2:57 PM, mike@evolutionaryscreenprinting.net wrote:

Hey Josh, so in between set ups I’ve been grabbing frames. So it looks like I’ve pulled about 75 of the mzx all round tube ultra lights, that have the black bolt/raw aluminum finished rollers.Keep in mind these are coming or have come out of production and I haven’t had time to really scrub and sticky remove them. I’ll at least make sure there isn’t a bunch of wet ink all over them, The frames are all great, but like I said, coming out of production without the ultrascrub I just want you to know they aren’t brand new, hence the big discounted price because as we know, time is money. Let me know if you are still good.
 
Thanks Josh!
 
Mike

Your reply

From: Josh Seacat <josh@lancasterprinthouse.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 3:19 PM
To: mike@evolutionaryscreenprinting.net
Subject: Re: Frames
 
Hey Mike, sounds good. Totally understand. As long as they are mechanically sound. I.e., not dented, stripped bolts, warped bars, etc.
 
I think I will take 30 right now but if it’s OK with you I may be back for some more after I check out the first 30.
 
What’s your PayPal or method of payment? Once you have them boxed up let me know how many shipping labels you need.
 
Thanks!
Josh Seacat
Lancaster Print House
717-571-0080



So like I mentioned above, at 15 bucks a frame, that there is really nothing but tape glue on them, maybe a little big of ink from anything yanked right out of a pile pre-reclaim. I only wish we had enough time in a day to make screen frames look brand new all the time, but processing the amount of jobs we are doing now, it's all we can do to keep the cycle going. And the big point is, you insisted on only having, "black bolt", which honestly should have been more than 15 each and agreed to accept screens that weren't perfectly clean.

In all fairness, Josh did not mention once where he bought those frames. That was until you outed yourself.

[lancasterprinthouse]

We don`t buff our frames but certainly make sure there is no ink on the actual frame once they have been cleaned. Kind of goes hand in hand with cleaning the mesh, at least in our shop.

I don’t know anyone that buffs frames but we do the same. Our frames in production are still able to handled and are free from gunk and ink.


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