Author Topic: EPSON F3070 vs Brother GTX Pro B, and why we are going with the EPSON.  (Read 7419 times)

Offline inkman996

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We have been using a brother GT541 close to ten years now, the machine is down currently and we are contemplating letting sail into the sunset. Our biggest complaint with Brother after all these years is the ridiculously over priced parts. Its like owning a boat, a grand here a grand there but always a grand minimum.

One thing I learned after dealing with DTG for so long, forget anything the manu tells you about shirts per hour, ink cost, etc. They have the most optimized numbers possible to market with, think any consumer grade power tools at the box store, they have data numbers that are so ridiculous but its somehow done in some scientific lab under scientific parameters so they can put those outlandish numbers on the box.

A shop a few buildings down from us has the latest Epson printer, not sure if it is the F3070 but it is newer gen and it is back at epson or the dealer currently, they have never had a single day of problem free printing since they got it and they keep falling back on some older unit they have. Not saying the F3070 is bad but it shows if a lemon makes it out the door to you, you are screwed, there will be no replacement printer sitting at your door the next day, you will have to jump through all the hoops, send it out, get it back, fiddle etc. Essentially lose money.

That said the F3070 is what we are looking at next but we want a contract or deal that absolutely garauntees a perfect working machine out of the box or it goes back for a replacement not for repairs.

"No man is an island"


Offline blue moon

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just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline GraphicDisorder

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just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre

Share the video please!
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Offline zanegun08

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I dont see any attachment picture on app and web based nothing. which model?

My Bad, I botched the link it https://www.photomugs.com/pages/dtg-printer

It's a good machine, and puts out quality prints, has a heat press in the back for flattening fibers, but... unless you speak Mandarin as the support is in China I think you may have a hard time.

If a larger distributor would sell that machine and build a support network it is a great option.

Offline mk162

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Nice write up Pierre.

We are on our 3rd DTG.  It's a good addition, but it's also becoming a flooded market at this point.  Also, the lack of poly printing, and really hard times printing on blends is a huge setback for these printers.

I loved our GT541.  It was a great machine even though it was only CMYK.  The GT381 I personally don't think is that great of a machine.  I have had more problems with it overall than we did with the 541.  I haven't looked at the GTX at all.

When it's all done, we may not replace it.  Being in the south we do a TON of poly. I mean, a strong 80% of what's on press is moisture wicking of some sort.  A white ink machine just isn't a good fit for us at this point.  We'll probably check out a good little CMYK printer if that's still the case.

Offline Rockers

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We went to Kyoto City today to see Brother`s main distributer for their DTG printers in Japan. They showed us lots of stuff, printed some samples with us and informed us about upcomming new releases. For example the GT-X Pro, not the Pro-B, just the Pro. Same price as the GT-X but with new Firmware, new printhead that saves around 50% of white ink waste and some other features. They showed us as well prints they done on black heavy bleeding 100% polyester tees. Perfect prints, same pretreat solution as for cotton tees. We were told the new firmware made it possible to print on dark poly tees. It will not work on all poly garments but on a majority of them. At the same time they rubbished the statement that the ink can be used only for 3 month. They have cartridges in the printer for a year now without the need to replace them. I checked, some of their cartridges were already 2 month over the best before date and the printer was just doing fine.

Offline blue moon

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Nice write up Pierre.

We are on our 3rd DTG.  It's a good addition, but it's also becoming a flooded market at this point.  Also, the lack of poly printing, and really hard times printing on blends is a huge setback for these printers.

I loved our GT541.  It was a great machine even though it was only CMYK.  The GT381 I personally don't think is that great of a machine.  I have had more problems with it overall than we did with the 541.  I haven't looked at the GTX at all.

When it's all done, we may not replace it.  Being in the south we do a TON of poly. I mean, a strong 80% of what's on press is moisture wicking of some sort.  A white ink machine just isn't a good fit for us at this point.  We'll probably check out a good little CMYK printer if that's still the case.
supposedly poly pretreat is coming this fall. that was a big factor for us too.
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline blue moon

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just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre

Share the video please!

sorry, could not find it any more. The video showed only one shirt printing and the time it takes to do it.
Obviously,  there will be delays running it full on so I reduced the numbers per hour in the calculations. Brother is set for 35 per hour and EPSON at 65.

Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline GraphicDisorder

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just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre

Share the video please!

sorry, could not find it any more. The video showed only one shirt printing and the time it takes to do it.
Obviously,  there will be delays running it full on so I reduced the numbers per hour in the calculations. Brother is set for 35 per hour and EPSON at 65.

Just watched this video. It takes a touch over 1 minute to print this shirt, not counting any load time of the shirt, not counting any time getting the file loaded or located, not counting any pre-treat time or heat press time. This looks to be a smaller print than would be normal in my shop as well. Printer moves pretty quick though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vBdmk57G4
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Offline blue moon

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just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre

Share the video please!

sorry, could not find it any more. The video showed only one shirt printing and the time it takes to do it.
Obviously,  there will be delays running it full on so I reduced the numbers per hour in the calculations. Brother is set for 35 per hour and EPSON at 65.

Just watched this video. It takes a touch over 1 minute to print this shirt, not counting any load time of the shirt, not counting any time getting the file loaded or located, not counting any pre-treat time or heat press time. This looks to be a smaller print than would be normal in my shop as well. Printer moves pretty quick though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vBdmk57G4

that looks to be about 16" tall. we have the shirt at the shop, I can have them measure it. We (Richard Greaves and our production manager) watched it print a 12x12 in about 42 seconds. That would not necessarily work for you since you print much larger, but for most of us it's OK.
Software like smake or linx actually preloads the design for you so no looking for anything while printing (just scan the bar code on the shirt). Pretreatment is still a pain. There are some automated options that do it like the printers (similar to the way printer art is preloaded), some that will pretreat the whole garment and it looks like fully pretreated garments are coming this fall.
We are getting there. . .
pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline GraphicDisorder

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just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre

Share the video please!

sorry, could not find it any more. The video showed only one shirt printing and the time it takes to do it.
Obviously,  there will be delays running it full on so I reduced the numbers per hour in the calculations. Brother is set for 35 per hour and EPSON at 65.

Just watched this video. It takes a touch over 1 minute to print this shirt, not counting any load time of the shirt, not counting any time getting the file loaded or located, not counting any pre-treat time or heat press time. This looks to be a smaller print than would be normal in my shop as well. Printer moves pretty quick though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vBdmk57G4

that looks to be about 16" tall. we have the shirt at the shop, I can have them measure it. We (Richard Greaves and our production manager) watched it print a 12x12 in about 42 seconds. That would not necessarily work for you since you print much larger, but for most of us it's OK.
Software like smake or linx actually preloads the design for you so no looking for anything while printing (just scan the bar code on the shirt). Pretreatment is still a pain. There are some automated options that do it like the printers (similar to the way printer art is preloaded), some that will pretreat the whole garment and it looks like fully pretreated garments are coming this fall.
We are getting there. . .
pierre

Ya 12x12 wouldn't work for my market. Backs are 15x17, typical front is center chest 10-12 inches wide or a left chest. But easily 99.9999% of the work here is front and back prints.

I agree we are progressing, but and please take no offense. Until DTG solves pre-treat, heat press and being able to print reliably on at least any 50/50 blended garment....we aint getting there. Some would say we aren't even there on 100% cotton. I used to have a pile of 100% cotton T's that randomly pretreat would not play well with. Shirts that would play well before then don't the next time. 

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Offline blue moon

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ask me in few months. I think we are just getting there or close enough to give this a shot. Our experience with DTG so far has been rough, but for the most part it was technology related. It seems that the issues we had have been addressed, but only time will tell.

For anybody reading this and thinking DTG is like a copier machine (push the button and a shirt comes out), MOVE ON! Digital is a process almost as complicated as screen printing and unless you are willing to 1. learn it, 2. put in the time and 3. set up in depth systems it will be a failure. To those that are willing, there will be payouts!

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline GraphicDisorder

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ask me in few months. I think we are just getting there or close enough to give this a shot. Our experience with DTG so far has been rough, but for the most part it was technology related. It seems that the issues we had have been addressed, but only time will tell.

For anybody reading this and thinking DTG is like a copier machine (push the button and a shirt comes out), MOVE ON! Digital is a process almost as complicated as screen printing and unless you are willing to 1. learn it, 2. put in the time and 3. set up in depth systems it will be a failure. To those that are willing, there will be payouts!

pierre

I watch it all the time. Hell we enjoyed our Mlink. A machine that was in better shape cost per print wise than most machines on the market still today. But DTG is not perfect. DTG isn't close to perfect. Anyone that says different is probably trying to sell you one.

I think we have to have that land on the moon moment before DTG will be a real contender vs screen print. Right now they haven't even built the launch pad. But yes, with the time in the systems DTG can make money. We made money with ours and we ran it part time.
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Offline Nation03

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I'll always keep my eye out, but for now it still might be part of my retirement plan lol. By that time I'll put up a nice Morton Building on my property with temp and humidity control and I'll mess around with some DTG printing.

Offline mikee440

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Pierre...Just wondering why the M&R Maverick wasn't considered...I haven't really looked if this has been mentioned..but I remember GD had an M Link