Author Topic: Maverick vs. Avalanche  (Read 12588 times)

Offline zanegun08

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2020, 01:40:23 PM »
As promised, here is the photos of 3 samples of 12 images that I got from the Maverick.

Also today I got my first production order (of 5 pieces) that will go to a customer.  We also have a 60 piece order in production but are waiting for a pre-production sample to arrive before that is approved.

These photos were taken on a phone.  So some quick commentary, the White tee looks great, and it held up well to its first wash.  The one posted is unwashed.  Looks really nice.

The Grey tee, pre wash looks amazing, there is a slight discoloration from the pre-treat, but that goes away in the wash.  However the black after washing fibrillated quite a bit, and to the eye (not camera) looks much more off black than in the photo.  However with the vintage subject it looks great, but if that isn't the affect you are after may be possible to have the printer print more black (but not really possible when contracting).

Navy Tee, this one doesn't have enough going on, and I don't think the quality of this print looks good.  The Pantone is Pantone 2995, and is lacking the opacity for a solid print.  Also I'll follow up on the next post with the real issue with this one.


Offline zanegun08

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2020, 01:45:33 PM »
Also I'll follow up on the next post with the real issue with this one.

This is what happened on the white, this is on a 100% cotton ASColour blank which is probably one of the most ideal tees to print on since they are so tightly woven.

Michelle is now working on dialing in the Maverick so hopefully this will be fixed, said it's something to do with head temperature.

However, this to me is an unsellable tee, I'm sure 80% of people would be fine with it, however wether user error, equipment error, pretreat error, whatever it is, makes me apprehensive to contract out if that is what will get sent out with no pre-samples (adding time / cost), which again makes it not so viable for small orders.

However, in reality we would just screen print this image, so I don't know if it is the best way to judge anyhow.

Online GraphicDisorder

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2020, 02:10:59 PM »
Also I'll follow up on the next post with the real issue with this one.

This is what happened on the white, this is on a 100% cotton ASColour blank which is probably one of the most ideal tees to print on since they are so tightly woven.

Michelle is now working on dialing in the Maverick so hopefully this will be fixed, said it's something to do with head temperature.

However, this to me is an unsellable tee, I'm sure 80% of people would be fine with it, however wether user error, equipment error, pretreat error, whatever it is, makes me apprehensive to contract out if that is what will get sent out with no pre-samples (adding time / cost), which again makes it not so viable for small orders.

However, in reality we would just screen print this image, so I don't know if it is the best way to judge anyhow.

My Mlink would have out performed that print easily. On a worse shirt even. He's got something wrong going on there I suspect.
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Offline brandon

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2020, 08:36:51 PM »
Why did they stop the M-Link for this newer equipment does anyone know?

Offline blue moon

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2020, 08:03:00 AM »
Why did they stop the M-Link for this newer equipment does anyone know?

bad head design by Ricoh (?). I think those were the 4th gen heads that were really hard to keep going well long term. Can't remember exactly who made them, but i heard from another manufacturer that sold the same exact machine (they were China imports and rebranded by several companies M&R included) that it was really hard to keep them running.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline brandon

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2020, 09:57:17 AM »


the new EPSON is not an entry level machine. It is 72"'x 73" (so rather big and requires a lot of floor space) and it prints a full size front in about 45 seconds. It has redundancy built int as well as remote access from the factory service department and other industrial grade features. The cost of ink is much lower than the entry level printers your are thinking about. We are bellow $1 per print in ink as of right now (very early on in setup and testing though). If you get 2 the ink is $140 per liter and you can net over 100 shirts per hour. To get the same from Kornit you will have to pay about 3-4 times as much and will still be fighting the color gamut issues.

List price is $50k, but by the time you are set up you are over $60k. With additional inks and maintenance consumables you are probably looking at $65k. I have a friend who had a factory with many, many Kornits and he says there is no comparison. It is not even close!

pierre

Pierre is not lying. His friend really does have rows and rows of Kornits. The Ink Kitchen did a feature on it awhile back. I mean Kornits as deep as the eye can see. If those guys and girls are recommending this Epson that's a good thing. We are most likely getting this over the Brother in Feb / March

Offline tbarnes

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2020, 10:41:50 AM »
Jumping back in this thread as I am starting to seriously consider the Epson machine as a contender.

Anyone that is currently using the Epson Surecolor machine care to share any kind of consumption reports and/or production numbers with the class? I would love to jump on a call with somebody currently using it in their shop.

No offense to the salesmen out there, but I hate getting my numbers from you people lol they always seem to be "in a perfect world" numbers and the print world is far from perfect.

Thanks in advance.

Offline blue moon

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2020, 10:50:49 AM »
Jumping back in this thread as I am starting to seriously consider the Epson machine as a contender.

Anyone that is currently using the Epson Surecolor machine care to share any kind of consumption reports and/or production numbers with the class? I would love to jump on a call with somebody currently using it in their shop.

No offense to the salesmen out there, but I hate getting my numbers from you people lol they always seem to be "in a perfect world" numbers and the print world is far from perfect.

Thanks in advance.

no numbers yet. we are still testing and setting up (print on demand software and RIP are not yet fully configured).

for a 12" wide image I am guessing about $1 in ink and $0.25 in pretreatment (EPSON stuff is expensive, but seems to work the best).
Your cost will depend on how many you print per day. We have ours do a cleaning before printing. if you keep it running all day, you will not see many cleanings. If you stop for a bit (20 min?), it will clean again before printing. Lotsa starting and stopping will increase your maintenance expenses. Also, the cost of the printer is $11 per hour. If you only print 10 shirts per hour you will be adding a $1 to your cost. If you run 50 shirts per hour then your overhead is $0.20 per shirt. that is a big difference!

I can answer any other questions if you have them.

pierre

p.s. we are putting down a lot of ink to make the prints really vibrant. Most shops would be OK with a lot less ink. I think $1 for ink and pretreatment might be possible.
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline tbarnes

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2020, 03:29:40 PM »


no numbers yet. we are still testing and setting up (print on demand software and RIP are not yet fully configured).

for a 12" wide image I am guessing about $1 in ink and $0.25 in pretreatment (EPSON stuff is expensive, but seems to work the best).
Your cost will depend on how many you print per day. We have ours do a cleaning before printing. if you keep it running all day, you will not see many cleanings. If you stop for a bit (20 min?), it will clean again before printing. Lotsa starting and stopping will increase your maintenance expenses. Also, the cost of the printer is $11 per hour. If you only print 10 shirts per hour you will be adding a $1 to your cost. If you run 50 shirts per hour then your overhead is $0.20 per shirt. that is a big difference!

I can answer any other questions if you have them.

pierre

p.s. we are putting down a lot of ink to make the prints really vibrant. Most shops would be OK with a lot less ink. I think $1 for ink and pretreatment might be possible.
[/quote]

Do you have a ballpark as to how many 12" prints on dark garments the machine is capable of in an hour? Our operators are basically feeding our DTG machines directly after the print finishes (we stay booked to capacity). The GTX is really only capable of like 30/hr on darker colored garments (on the high side). Factor that with the cost of their inks and pretreat and the margins suck.

Offline blue moon

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2020, 04:05:38 PM »


no numbers yet. we are still testing and setting up (print on demand software and RIP are not yet fully configured).

for a 12" wide image I am guessing about $1 in ink and $0.25 in pretreatment (EPSON stuff is expensive, but seems to work the best).
Your cost will depend on how many you print per day. We have ours do a cleaning before printing. if you keep it running all day, you will not see many cleanings. If you stop for a bit (20 min?), it will clean again before printing. Lotsa starting and stopping will increase your maintenance expenses. Also, the cost of the printer is $11 per hour. If you only print 10 shirts per hour you will be adding a $1 to your cost. If you run 50 shirts per hour then your overhead is $0.20 per shirt. that is a big difference!

I can answer any other questions if you have them.

pierre

p.s. we are putting down a lot of ink to make the prints really vibrant. Most shops would be OK with a lot less ink. I think $1 for ink and pretreatment might be possible.

Do you have a ballpark as to how many 12" prints on dark garments the machine is capable of in an hour? Our operators are basically feeding our DTG machines directly after the print finishes (we stay booked to capacity). The GTX is really only capable of like 30/hr on darker colored garments (on the high side). Factor that with the cost of their inks and pretreat and the margins suck.
[/quote]

full fronts we are printing in a min. it is taking 10-15 seconds to load and pull the shirt so we timed about 50 per hour with full fronts. if you add some left chests in or other smaller prints you could get close to 60 net per hour.

at ISS they were printing a 14" tall front in 42 seconds and it looked great. so there is probably some more tweaking we can do to speed things up. . .

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Moshie

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2021, 12:36:09 PM »
Hey Guys!

Michelle here. We fixed spotting whites on Maverick. AND I made some curves for auto sep that I think match screen prints, send me samples, let me show you...
....AND I gave it full control capability, so you can make the Maverick sing and dance if you want, as an additional option, Which we will train.
...AND if you want to control your auto sep (tailor it to your style, build out multiples, etc) I’ll show you how.
Make it as easy or customized as you like.
Exciting times.

Check out this video for more examples

https://youtu.be/4DHSjn1GizU

#evolvetheprint

[/img]

Also I'll follow up on the next post with the real issue with this one.

This is what happened on the white, this is on a 100% cotton ASColour blank which is probably one of the most ideal tees to print on since they are so tightly woven.

Michelle is now working on dialing in the Maverick so hopefully this will be fixed, said it's something to do with head temperature.

However, this to me is an unsellable tee, I'm sure 80% of people would be fine with it, however wether user error, equipment error, pretreat error, whatever it is, makes me apprehensive to contract out if that is what will get sent out with no pre-samples (adding time / cost), which again makes it not so viable for small orders.

However, in reality we would just screen print this image, so I don't know if it is the best way to judge anyhow.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 12:41:56 PM by Moshie »
Print life.

Offline blue moon

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2021, 02:33:17 PM »
 Hi Michelle!

thanx for stopping by and that video. Would you mind giving us some info on the target market and performance of the Maverick?
Any thoughts you'd like to share would be great.
'welcome to start a new post so it will get more exposure.

thanx,

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Jepaul

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2021, 11:02:06 PM »
Greetings,

We are looking at adding a more efficient DTG machine given the current market. I am currently drafting a comparison of the M&R Maverick vs. the Kornit Avalanche. Does anyone have any input in comparing the two machines? Anyone currently own either machine and want to hit me with some pros and cons? Looking for maintenance, troubleshooting, pricing analysis (I never trust the salesman price analysis) etc.

Any info is greatly appreciated.
Go join the Kornit Facebook group.  After 30 mins of reviewing posts you’ll run away as fast as you can. It’s amazing anyone actually buys those machines after reading the posts through out that group.

Offline Dottonedan

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2021, 02:23:43 PM »
We currently have an Avalanche (sold by Hirsh) at the time of purchase. All I can say, is that when our people (no longer here) let the heads dry up, it cost 80k to replace all heads. Add to that, if we wanted to incorporate the NEWer head system to accommodate bleeder garments such as Comfort colors, it would cost an additional 80k on top. Currently, It's a paper weight so if anyone wants to purchase one at a really good price, Call me. :) You would have to replace all print heads.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 02:25:58 PM by Dottonedan »
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Offline mk162

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Re: Maverick vs. Avalanche
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2021, 02:56:05 PM »
We currently have an Avalanche (sold by Hirsh) at the time of purchase. All I can say, is that when our people (no longer here) let the heads dry up, it cost 80k to replace all heads. Add to that, if we wanted to incorporate the NEWer head system to accommodate bleeder garments such as Comfort colors, it would cost an additional 80k on top. Currently, It's a paper weight so if anyone wants to purchase one at a really good price, Call me. :) You would have to replace all print heads.

$80k for new heads?  That's stupid money.