Author Topic: Vector Conversion Services  (Read 3130 times)

Offline T Shirt Farmer

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Vector Conversion Services
« on: November 09, 2021, 08:38:31 PM »
I had a file converted to vector and wanted to manipulate it, grab a few letters to rearrange. I know enough about Illy to be dangerous but almost always able to click enough buttons to get my desired result. This file I was unable to do so (isolate the P from the Q) and contacted vendor and here is the reply.

This file is entirely automated and that is why you are unable to release it as there is an object after object.
It is not a true vector which is why it has to be redone in order to make any changes.


They are providing a true vector for an added fee, is this the norm for other vendors offering vector conversions?
Robert
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Offline Rockers

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2021, 10:11:45 PM »
I had a file converted to vector and wanted to manipulate it, grab a few letters to rearrange. I know enough about Illy to be dangerous but almost always able to click enough buttons to get my desired result. This file I was unable to do so (isolate the P from the Q) and contacted vendor and here is the reply.

This file is entirely automated and that is why you are unable to release it as there is an object after object.
It is not a true vector which is why it has to be redone in order to make any changes.


They are providing a true vector for an added fee, is this the norm for other vendors offering vector conversions?
I do not even know what they are talking about.  The Q and the I are still images placed into Illy or what are those? Screenshot of the layers would be great. Anyway I would assume if they do a vector conversion the artwork will as well be true vectors. One could argue if it is not a true vector it`s not a vector at all and therefor not a vector conversion. Who are these people? I got an account with Penji.co and in the past I used Kite Graphics in India. That dude is very cheap and does awesome work. Penji.co is great too if you need more then just vectorizing images.

Offline inkman996

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2021, 08:08:24 AM »
Send me the file and I will confirm what it is. inkman @ logoitup.com
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Offline Dottonedan

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2021, 03:19:13 PM »
I had a file converted to vector and wanted to manipulate it, grab a few letters to rearrange. I know enough about Illy to be dangerous but almost always able to click enough buttons to get my desired result. This file I was unable to do so (isolate the P from the Q) and contacted vendor and here is the reply.

This file is entirely automated and that is why you are unable to release it as there is an object after object.
It is not a true vector which is why it has to be redone in order to make any changes.


They are providing a true vector for an added fee, is this the norm for other vendors offering vector conversions?




It’s “vector”,  and scalable as such.  You got what you asked for.


What you want, is a production ready file for print.  That’s different.


The vector file can still have live editable features (and not correctly printable for screen printing) but it’s vector. They did their job that you asked for.
This is the "art file” or design file element.  Artist use this for new designs over and over. Once it’s re built (like they did), then you (the production company) make it production friendly on your end. Unless you ask them for a production ready, color separated vector.


Two different intentions.









Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail art@designsbydottone.com 615-821-7850

Offline mooseman

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2021, 04:40:46 PM »
I had a file converted to vector and wanted to manipulate it, grab a few letters to rearrange. I know enough about Illy to be dangerous but almost always able to click enough buttons to get my desired result. This file I was unable to do so (isolate the P from the Q) and contacted vendor and here is the reply.

This file is entirely automated and that is why you are unable to release it as there is an object after object.
It is not a true vector which is why it has to be redone in order to make any changes.


They are providing a true vector for an added fee, is this the norm for other vendors offering vector conversions?

WOW.....I am  thoroughly confused and maybe missing the whole point of the complaint.
When I order VECTOR art I get an image back that I can take apart, put together, stretch and on and on.
Vector is vector, it is math and numbers can easily be manipulated . This statement by the artist "It is not a true vector which is why it has to be redone in order to make any changes." is PURE BULL SHIRT. I have never heard the term TRUE VECTOR vs vector. I can not find a vectorizing service that has a option to buy VECTOR OR  TRUE VECTOR when placing an order. What does this mean is  it  simulated vector that was sold? NEVER have I had the question is your art going to be used as a vector or a true vector in the hundreds of dollars I spent over the years to buy vector art.

Now if T Farmer was expecting 3 or 4 files that separated the original design that is different scope but again if ordered as such none of those files would be  classified as not true vector.
Last comment you can search  www until your keyboard keys disintegrate my guess is you will not fine a comparison of vector vs. true vector art
........BULL SHIRT
mooseman
DUE TO CIRCUMSTANCES COMPLETELY WITHIN MY CONTROL YOU SHOULD GET YOUR OWN TEE SHIRT AND A SHARPIE MARKER BY NOON TOMORROW OR SIMPLY CALL SOMEONE WHO GIVES A SHIRT.

Offline T Shirt Farmer

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2021, 06:19:47 PM »
Send me the file and I will confirm what it is. inkman @ logoitup.com

Inbound lmk your thoughts, appreciate you looking at this file.
Robert
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Offline T Shirt Farmer

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2021, 06:37:44 PM »
I had a file converted to vector and wanted to manipulate it, grab a few letters to rearrange. I know enough about Illy to be dangerous but almost always able to click enough buttons to get my desired result. This file I was unable to do so (isolate the P from the Q) and contacted vendor and here is the reply.

This file is entirely automated and that is why you are unable to release it as there is an object after object.
It is not a true vector which is why it has to be redone in order to make any changes.


They are providing a true vector for an added fee, is this the norm for other vendors offering vector conversions?

WOW.....I am  thoroughly confused and maybe missing the whole point of the complaint.
When I order VECTOR art I get an image back that I can take apart, put together, stretch and on and on.
Vector is vector, it is math and numbers can easily be manipulated . This statement by the artist "It is not a true vector which is why it has to be redone in order to make any changes." is PURE BULL SHIRT. I have never heard the term TRUE VECTOR vs vector. I can not find a vectorizing service that has a option to buy VECTOR OR  TRUE VECTOR when placing an order. What does this mean is  it  simulated vector that was sold? NEVER have I had the question is your art going to be used as a vector or a true vector in the hundreds of dollars I spent over the years to buy vector art.

Now if T Farmer was expecting 3 or 4 files that separated the original design that is different scope but again if ordered as such none of those files would be  classified as not true vector.
Last comment you can search  www until your keyboard keys disintegrate my guess is you will not fine a comparison of vector vs. true vector art
........BULL SHIRT
mooseman

Mr Moose, i was baffled by the reply as well, the job was really straight forward easypesy. I shpuld have been able to easily modify
Robert
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Offline T Shirt Farmer

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2021, 06:41:10 PM »
I had a file converted to vector and wanted to manipulate it, grab a few letters to rearrange. I know enough about Illy to be dangerous but almost always able to click enough buttons to get my desired result. This file I was unable to do so (isolate the P from the Q) and contacted vendor and here is the reply.

This file is entirely automated and that is why you are unable to release it as there is an object after object.
It is not a true vector which is why it has to be redone in order to make any changes.


They are providing a true vector for an added fee, is this the norm for other vendors offering vector conversions?
interesting reply Dan thanks for your insight




It’s “vector”,  and scalable as such.  You got what you asked for.


What you want, is a production ready file for print.  That’s different.


The vector file can still have live editable features (and not correctly printable for screen printing) but it’s vector. They did their job that you asked for.
This is the "art file” or design file element.  Artist use this for new designs over and over. Once it’s re built (like they did), then you (the production company) make it production friendly on your end. Unless you ask them for a production ready, color separated vector.


Two different intentions.
Robert
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Your Source for Decorated Apparel.

Offline Dottonedan

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2021, 07:36:53 PM »

Quote

WOW.....I am  thoroughly confused and maybe missing the whole point of the complaint.
When I order VECTOR art I get an image back that I can take apart, put together, stretch and on and on.
Vector is vector, it is math and numbers can easily be manipulated . This statement by the artist "It is not a true vector which is why it has to be redone in order to make any changes." is PURE BULL SHIRT. I have never heard the term TRUE VECTOR vs vector. I can not find a vectorizing service that has a option to buy VECTOR OR  TRUE VECTOR when placing an order. What does this mean is  it  simulated vector that was sold? NEVER have I had the question is your art going to be used as a vector or a true vector in the hundreds of dollars I spent over the years to buy vector art.

Now if T Farmer was expecting 3 or 4 files that separated the original design that is different scope but again if ordered as such none of those files would be  classified as not true vector.
Last comment you can search  www until your keyboard keys disintegrate my guess is you will not fine a comparison of vector vs. true vector art
........BULL SHIRT
mooseman




It may slightly depend on who you ordered the vector conversion from. There are different types of artist and art sources out there. Like an artist can be broken down into many types of artist.
Graphics Designer, Typographer, Production artist, Illustrators, etc. Are all artist in the art field. Those titles can fit within a Design studio that knows nothing about production...and they can fit within a production shop and can only relate to production friendly art.  The first group, create pretty art.  The 2nd group, create production usable art.

For example.
If ordering from an art sourcing department that “does art file conversions” but is more of a graphics source (use loosely), A customer can use a term that covers a wide range of specific things...and the provider, can be think ing your asking for one thing, while you are wanting another.


LIVE, EDITABLE, or MASTER VECTOR FILES:
These can easily be assigned the title as “finished vector art", but in production reality, is in no way “production friendly”. What many of you are familiar with can figuratively or loosely be called TRUE vector art. Both are really vector files (math). But what you do with each is a different story. It gets convoluted. For many shop owners who dabble in getting art to be production friendly, a live file can be very complicated to work with. This is why actually, many people who get a vector file converted from a raster image has to still send it back out to me, to be separated. Because they can’t do anything with it and it’s in process colors (as an example).  Many off the street, or random Fiver artist can say “sure, I can create a vector for of that photo art for you.  And they do.  DONE.  But it’s a problem to get into, and edit for many.
From Fiver (and not saying that these sources never has anyone that can provide a good production ready vector file) but Fiver has 100x more available Artist trying to get work... that cannot do what you really want, then can. So it really depends on WHO you are sending your vector conversions too.

GraphiXSource should be a good source for getting production ready (non live art that one can break apart easily).  that’s what they do. They cater to the production industry.  They have a live editable version, but they know, that is not what you want.

Fiver, (for the lack of knowing other large sources where artist from around the world congregate), is an extreme example of (you get what you pay for), or, it can be done by someone not familiar with what you need, but are familiar with the term "Vector conversion”.

A editable file, still has all of the blends, filters, color mode applications, and often even the live type and font styles. It can be grouped together as one unit, and scaled (as many of us want), and is still called a vector conversion.  But it can take a knowledgeable artist to take that and break it apart for production use. Thats why there are artist, and there are production artist.  Most everything any artist does for a screen print is as a production artist whether they possess that title or not.

In the end, it really boils down to WHO your source is.  Are they a fit for you and do they know what you really want from them. Neither can be wrong and BOTH can be done vary well and worth what you paid. A production shop, needing production art to be able to edit the file easily may not like what they get from a random artist, but technically (by graphics definitions) he got wet he asked for (if he asked for a vector conversion). A live editable vector file may be so deeply “filtered”, that it can resemble a raster file. Often so far complex, it may as well be if you don’t know what you're doing.


How do you get a vector conversion down to the bare nuts of what a production person needs?  They select all, and expand. Maybe even a few times.  Once you do, and you see that true vector art in key line mode, WOW! You may not want to look at it. Can be very complex.   I often just copy and paste into Photoshop.




So in a nut shell, It’s no BULL SHIRT.  You just don’t know it’s not bull.  The person that called it TRUE vector, is simply trying to assign a clear definition of what the end result is to be.
Sort of like the term "Full color” screen printing.  We don’t print full color really. Not even in 4 color process is it “full color"  But we use many colors and so the term is used loosley.

Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail art@designsbydottone.com 615-821-7850

Offline prozyan

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2021, 08:12:49 PM »
I'm with the Moose.

If I sent that file out to be made a vector, I'd expect each individual letter and element to be made a vector object and able to be manipulated on its own.

I've been sending files out to be "vectored" for almost 20 years and never once have I had to distinguish between "vector" and "true vector".  Never even heard of such.
If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Offline Dottonedan

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2021, 10:25:34 PM »
There is no real true vector. Let s call the posters first version he received as “true vector” and the other to be production be production vector.  Then reverse it.   Doesn’t really matter what one guy called it. It was his own description.  We are taking this way way to far beyond what the issue was. 

There ARE differences, but both are vector. The most basic explanation is that each is a different stage of a vector. The designer artist, would use this first version/stage.  The one that T shirt Farmer got.
A designer, would use it for hundreds of new Designs that would include that same content. The production version (the expanded version) would be finished for production. A version that is no longer changeable in a live state.

Artist & Sim Process separator, Co owner of The Shirt Board, Past M&R Digital tech installer for I-Image machines. Over 28 yrs in the apparel industry. Apparel sales, http://www.designsbydottone.com  e-mail art@designsbydottone.com 615-821-7850

Offline Maxie

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2021, 11:56:48 PM »
Send it to VLead India, for a few $ you'll get a color separated vector, and fast, usually overnight.
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Offline mooseman

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2021, 07:51:37 AM »
OK let me cut to the chase on this mess. I made an assumption that I did not include in my previous babble.
Lets go back to the providers reply statement....
This file is entirely automated and that is why you are unable to release it as there is an object after object.

My assumption, ( we all know what happens when we assume ) from the reply is this "artist" ran the file through  vector conversion software never was touched by human hands so to speak, cashed the check and sent back the entirely automated art.
To quote Pink Floyd......Welcome my son to the machine
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DUE TO CIRCUMSTANCES COMPLETELY WITHIN MY CONTROL YOU SHOULD GET YOUR OWN TEE SHIRT AND A SHARPIE MARKER BY NOON TOMORROW OR SIMPLY CALL SOMEONE WHO GIVES A SHIRT.

Offline inkman996

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2021, 08:40:06 AM »
I got the file from him and opened it up. It was mostly vector except for the gradients. they were individual bitmaps. I cleaned up the file for him, deleted all the bitmaps and filled with a solid vector. The file is a mess with some parts as one object and other parts as seperate objects. If he needs to work with individual letters for whatever reason I suggest converting it to a bitmap high res and tracing. But as is the file is fine now.
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Offline mooseman

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Re: Vector Conversion Services
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2021, 09:08:35 AM »
I got the file from him and opened it up. It was mostly vector except for the gradients. they were individual bitmaps. I cleaned up the file for him, deleted all the bitmaps and filled with a solid vector. The file is a mess with some parts as one object and other parts as seperate objects. If he needs to work with individual letters for whatever reason I suggest converting it to a bitmap high res and tracing. But as is the file is fine now.

Great job inkman, the human touch is always a plus and as a member that has my bacon saved with art issues of my own thanks for jumping in..

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mooseman
DUE TO CIRCUMSTANCES COMPLETELY WITHIN MY CONTROL YOU SHOULD GET YOUR OWN TEE SHIRT AND A SHARPIE MARKER BY NOON TOMORROW OR SIMPLY CALL SOMEONE WHO GIVES A SHIRT.