Author Topic: a familiar Illustrator problem  (Read 3067 times)

Offline Sbrem

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a familiar Illustrator problem
« on: November 11, 2021, 12:20:53 PM »
I've found the answer to this before, but can't find it now, so I turn to my friends here. Simply, we have a shape filled with a spot color, in this case, Spot White. We reduced it to 15% using the transparency panel. Now when we click on it, it says it's 100%, and plainly is not. The Transparency panel says 100%, the Color panel says 100%. The Appearance Panel, well, I can't see how to change the opacity there. What's killing me, is that I figured this out a few months ago, and didn't write it down, arrrrggghhhhh!!!!!

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't


Offline blue moon

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2021, 12:47:33 PM »
Make sure you find where you made the changes. It is probably a level above or bellow where you are looking. This is in Layers panel, the groups and subgroups.
Pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Sbrem

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2021, 01:07:53 PM »
I don't understand that Pierre. Let's say I draw a square and fill it with a color, by default 100%, yes? Next I go to the Transparency panel and change it to 15%, and it looks like it should. Then deselect it, and when reselected, the transparency panel says it's 100%, and it can't be undone. It can of course, but I'll be damned if I can find an answer when googling, I see a lot of discussion, but nothing I've see is working for me. One discussion says to Ungroup as it may be part of a group. When I do that, it, and all the other shapes with varying percentages change to 100%. I'm perplexed...

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline blue moon

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2021, 01:15:36 PM »
you are looking at the wrong place. Go to your layers panel and find the element there. It will have a normal dot next to it. Look at the group it belongs to and check out that dot. It will be different color. That is the one you changed. Bottom line, look for the dot that is different.

post a screenshot of all the elements in the layer panel so we can see.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Sbrem

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2021, 02:43:11 PM »
There are a gazillion pieces unfortunately, but here's a shot of the group, then a shot of the element, in the Layers panel. The dot for the group is gray, and the dot for the element is 2 concentric circles, no fill...

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline blue moon

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2021, 03:43:35 PM »
That gray means thats where you made the changes!
Pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Dottonedan

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2021, 06:20:02 PM »
What happens is…

As you assign an element a 50% transparency. You can still see that when you select it again if is not grouped BUT, where it changes, (where it says it’s 100%) Is after you have grouped it with somthing else. That “group” is then 100% opacity unless you change that whole group.  So, even if you select that with the open arrow tool, it’s showing the transparency (as a group).  That still prints out as the transparency even if it’s grouped.  It just says what opacity the group is.

You can have many different elements with various transparency within, but once grouped, all will show that group as 100%.

Pierre is also correct.
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Offline Rockers

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2021, 07:22:58 PM »
What happens is…

As you assign an element a 50% transparency. You can still see that when you select it again if is not grouped BUT, where it changes, (where it says it’s 100%) Is after you have grouped it with somthing else. That “group” is then 100% opacity unless you change that whole group.  So, even if you select that with the open arrow tool, it’s showing the transparency (as a group).  That still prints out as the transparency even if it’s grouped.  It just says what opacity the group is.

You can have many different elements with various transparency within, but once grouped, all will show that group as 100%.

Pierre is also correct.
Which one is the open arrow tool you are referring to? The direct selection tool? I hate to say it. If you have a group of let`s say 3 different objects with different opacity(transparency) settings then group them you can still select each object with the direct selection tool and the opacity shown is not 100% but rather the opacity assigned to that particular object. You can even use the selection tool and just double click that object and still get it`s correct opacity setting displayed. What version of Illustrator is everyone using here?

Offline Gilligan

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2021, 09:00:39 AM »
That gray means thats where you made the changes!
Pierre

F'ing Eh!

Thanks P... learned a new deep dive illy tip from you again!

This will help me and my guy when looking at old/other people's artwork!

Offline Dottonedan

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2021, 03:20:01 PM »
Sbrem,


I’m curious to see if your exact situation was resolved.
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Offline Sbrem

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2021, 03:50:11 PM »
Yes, and no Dan, but no time to explain right now. I did discover that if I chose the object in question, with the Direct Selection Tool (the hollow or white arrow) and used "select same appearance" that it selected all the pieces with the same percentage, and that they were grouped. Ungrouping them made them all revert to 100%. Not perfect, but it allows you to reassign new percentages.

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline Rockers

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2021, 08:18:40 PM »
Yes, and no Dan, but no time to explain right now. I did discover that if I chose the object in question, with the Direct Selection Tool (the hollow or white arrow) and used "select same appearance" that it selected all the pieces with the same percentage, and that they were grouped. Ungrouping them made them all revert to 100%. Not perfect, but it allows you to reassign new percentages.

Steve
Magic wand tool should work even better in that case.
May I ask what version of Illustrator you are using. I`m trying to replicate your problems here but I absolutely fail.

Offline Sbrem

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2021, 08:33:55 AM »
Yes, and no Dan, but no time to explain right now. I did discover that if I chose the object in question, with the Direct Selection Tool (the hollow or white arrow) and used "select same appearance" that it selected all the pieces with the same percentage, and that they were grouped. Ungrouping them made them all revert to 100%. Not perfect, but it allows you to reassign new percentages.

Steve
Magic wand tool should work even better in that case.
May I ask what version of Illustrator you are using. I`m trying to replicate your problems here but I absolutely fail.

The most recent, Illy 2021. I'm going to check the Magic Wand tool, which I use all the time in Photoshop, yet ignore it in Illy. I'm beginning to think it's something we're doing incorrectly when creating it. Myself, I pick a spot color from the Swatches pallet, then in the color pallet assign a percentage. However, our artist when making a mockup, she uses the transparency tool to create a useful simulation to send to the customer for approval. I think it's in that crossover perhaps, but I don't have the time to really dig in on it, just too busy and shorthanded.

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline Dottonedan

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2021, 10:04:26 PM »
Oh yes!   I feel you are onto something there. So, you create your percentages by taking the opacity down (in the color) window.

I almost exclusively use the transparency feature now myself. In creating and separations. Especially in separations. I did a example of the differences in the tutorials section last year I think.

The two treat the output vary differently.  When reducing the opacity in the color window, (let’s say to 70%),  It’s using computer white or default white to do that. The 30% is white.  This is why it seems more washed out than just reducing transparency.  But the more important part is that (using the color opacity) that percentage of white…gets knocked out. Computer white, doesn’t print. It’s not a color. So it can’t be assigned to overprint the white parts. For this reason, those elements must be put below other elements that need to print over top of it.

transparency looks and works better. The math for that does not use computer white. Also, you can tell that to multiply and get a better visual of how that may turn out.

So that’s the uniqueness between the two.  How that plays a role in your issue, I’m not sure yet. But I’ll keep it in mind as I’m going. It’s just that since they are vary different, this may be a factor with your issues.

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Offline Rockers

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Re: a familiar Illustrator problem
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2021, 07:51:40 PM »
Oh yes!   I feel you are onto something there. So, you create your percentages by taking the opacity down (in the color) window.

I almost exclusively use the transparency feature now myself. In creating and separations. Especially in separations. I did a example of the differences in the tutorials section last year I think.

The two treat the output vary differently.  When reducing the opacity in the color window, (let’s say to 70%),  It’s using computer white or default white to do that. The 30% is white.  This is why it seems more washed out than just reducing transparency.  But the more important part is that (using the color opacity) that percentage of white…gets knocked out. Computer white, doesn’t print. It’s not a color. So it can’t be assigned to overprint the white parts. For this reason, those elements must be put below other elements that need to print over top of it.

transparency looks and works better. The math for that does not use computer white. Also, you can tell that to multiply and get a better visual of how that may turn out.

So that’s the uniqueness between the two.  How that plays a role in your issue, I’m not sure yet. But I’ll keep it in mind as I’m going. It’s just that since they are vary different, this may be a factor with your issues.
In the color window there is no opacity slider , it`s a tint slider you are referring to. There is a difference between tint and opacity. A certain tint. of a color does not make it less opaque. A tint of pantone 123 can still be 100% opaque unless you actually go and use transparency to adjust opacity.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 10:51:09 PM by Rockers »