Author Topic: Waterbase flukes  (Read 7070 times)

Offline tonypep

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2024, 11:48:20 AM »
Its not the garment, press or screen, its the ink. Usually poor pigment grind. Can be found in either RFU or pigment/base. Most commonly found in red shade yellows and anything with yellow in it. Most pigments start out as cakes or powders and must be milled to a particular specific size and the better (more expensive ones) are milled in stages until they reach the specified particle size. Also could be impurities.


Offline brandon

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2024, 11:50:33 AM »
We started with Matsui but the wet on wet wasn't working on DC or Medium solids. Skin-like build up on bottom of screen.
Tried aquarius, printed the same as Matsui.

For the last few years we have been Magna pigments and bases with CCI activator.

Just curious why are you using the CCI activator with Magna instead of the Magna activator??? Magna is what we switched everything too

Offline cclaud3

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2024, 01:44:45 PM »
It's about a 1/3 less in price, easy to get and worked fine until a month ago. When we first started reps from each company said that activator is activator.
Just finished 960 DC prints on Gildans without any problems...not sure what is going on.

Offline brandon

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2024, 02:02:23 PM »
It's about a 1/3 less in price, easy to get and worked fine until a month ago. When we first started reps from each company said that activator is activator.
Just finished 960 DC prints on Gildans without any problems...not sure what is going on.

I used to think that too but I just asked our production manager about when we were switching over and she confirmed that issues would arise when we tried to clear out the CCI activator by using it with the Magna inks. Like Tony said above things are milled / grinded differently. And I have been told that some activator is a ground to a finer powder hence the higher price. I believe the less the grind it seems to clump more even if small clumps / streaks its still annoying

Offline ebscreen

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2024, 04:03:01 PM »
FWIW when I was mentioning oil spots I was referring to machine oil from the mill, not your press.
IE the kind that you'll see on white/light garments, but may not be visible on darks, unless you
print a reactive ink over them.

When Rutland WB-99 was discontinued (the bastards) we went to CCI pigs.
(had been using their bases for years). We've since seen odd stuff happen like this as well,
so we're on our way over to Matsui now.

Offline tonypep

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2024, 05:43:57 AM »
You are right about the Rutland WB-99......It was flawless and consistent. Haven't played with the Magna. And Pavonine was really good and different. Something like 30 pigments. If you wanted a brown PC you had three options.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 06:06:50 AM by tonypep »

Offline cclaud3

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2024, 11:12:13 AM »
So far we are about 2000 prints into Gildan Heavy Cottons and no issues. I'm taking activator from the same bucket. Also, we fill a 1 gal bucket so the 5 gal doesn't get opened as often. So spots are only showing on Next Level & Bella. Crazy

Offline mk162

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2024, 11:43:39 AM »
Question from someone that doesn't know any better, but couldn't you dissolve the activator in water or an ink additive before mixing it in?

I've started dissolving my cinnamon for French toast into vanilla extract because it mixes with the egg better.

Just a thought.

Offline cclaud3

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2024, 03:56:12 PM »
Yes, I certainly can and it may help.

After years of consistency doing it the way we've been doing it I was looking for a definitive "ah yes, that's such and such causing that".

Offline cclaud3

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2024, 05:03:09 PM »
Reprint #3 of same 2 color design from this morning. Brand new bucket of CCI activator. Same problem with dark spots.
Ran thousand of prints in between on gildans with other DC colors, etc and not a single problem.

Does not show on black gildans, tultex, district. Only shows on Bella & Next Levels.
Going to have to run this one with HSA to get it out the way.

Sourcing Magna brand activator for next test.

Offline brandon

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2024, 05:55:20 PM »
Looking forward to your Magna activator testing. It definitely helped us

Offline cclaud3

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2024, 01:17:23 PM »
Still occurring with Magna activator on black bellas & next levels.
Thousands of Gildans in assorted colors had no problem with CCI (previous) and Magna (new) activator.
Did not happen on 250 navy bellas. 2 color discharge front + 4 dc back. Magna Activator
Did not happen on 250 army bellas. 4 color discharge front + 4 dc back. Magna Activator

Re-ran the 2 color green/white dc print. Actually ran this 4 times using same screens for DC version. Final DC attempt was run on the backs of defect shirts from the first two attempts and they PRINTED FINE????
Ultimately ran HSA to complete for customer.

Today ran the 7 color DC on black bellas. Splotching/dots in red & yellow as previous attempts. Used magna activator.

So, have used 2 different activators. Same & new sets of screens for re-runs. New bottle of Yellow HG pigment. Thought it may be that since Yellow 021 is only made up o f Yellow HG.

Gildans run fine.

Only other logical thing I can think of is the US plastics mixing cups have some sort of contaminant in SOME of them.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2024, 01:21:17 PM by cclaud3 »

Offline blue moon

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2024, 12:14:25 PM »
Still occurring with Magna activator on black bellas & next levels.
Thousands of Gildans in assorted colors had no problem with CCI (previous) and Magna (new) activator.
Did not happen on 250 navy bellas. 2 color discharge front + 4 dc back. Magna Activator
Did not happen on 250 army bellas. 4 color discharge front + 4 dc back. Magna Activator

Re-ran the 2 color green/white dc print. Actually ran this 4 times using same screens for DC version. Final DC attempt was run on the backs of defect shirts from the first two attempts and they PRINTED FINE????
Ultimately ran HSA to complete for customer.

Today ran the 7 color DC on black bellas. Splotching/dots in red & yellow as previous attempts. Used magna activator.

So, have used 2 different activators. Same & new sets of screens for re-runs. New bottle of Yellow HG pigment. Thought it may be that since Yellow 021 is only made up o f Yellow HG.

Gildans run fine.

Only other logical thing I can think of is the US plastics mixing cups have some sort of contaminant in SOME of them.

see what happens if you run them through the dryer first. Maybe it's the sizing.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline cclaud3

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2024, 08:04:35 PM »
It was the air lines in the ROQ probe flashes. The airlines shoot little bursts of air every so often to cool the sensor. We use a chiller and check/drain the compressor's tank everyday, along with the drain on the press. A minuscule amount of oil/contaminant in the air lines...can't see it happening but flashes on (even at 75C) causes the dots/splattering. Mainly used the flashes to keep platens tacky.

Kept re-running the black fashion tee job(s) and ruining shirts, ran the job without flashes and it went away. The Weirdest thing is that the staining did not show on anything but Black Bella Canvas & Black Next Levels with discharge bases only.

We swapped to new batches of ink, pigment, activator, screens, mixing containers. Flashes off fixed it.


Offline brandon

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Re: Waterbase flukes
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2024, 04:10:27 PM »
That is interesting. Thank you for sharing