American Auto presses - Multi, Rototex, Centurian

[ZooCity]

This has been on my mind for awhile as I keep seeing decent looking American machines pop up.  I know that some (many?) here have used these machines in the past prior to upgrading.  Everytime I see one I consider doing the same.  So I gotta ask for opinions and ask a few ?s if you all will oblige me here:

• Overall is it a good move to have one of these v. no auto and saving for a new one later would you say?
• Roller frames?
• Any major deal breakers to look out for?
• Would you say they are worth shipping on the whole?

I picked up a Tempo and Cameo as well as a Tex Air last year and they all seem like good, reliable machines with simple engineering though I have yet to run them in any serious capacity.   My thoughts were why not automate next time I can free up 3-5k and at least save myself from manually printing a good chunk of our work?   Interested to hear the thoughts of others on this notion, looking at it in hindsight. 

[alan802]

I am very familiar with the Centurian and it's got a special place in my heart.  A newer (mid 90's to present) would be one of, if not the best options for an older used auto in my opinion.  I would buy a mid or even early 90's centurian before I would buy any other auto on the market of the same year.  They are absolute workhorses and they only lack the little things like squeegee and screen air locks, and they don't have tool less adjustments like changing the squeegee angle, but aside from that, they have way more features than similar aged presses and are on par with many early 2000's autos.  They were ahead of their time no doubt about it.  They are intimidating to work on but they are very simple, there are just so many electrical components but if you are somewhat handy with a multimeter, you can troubleshoot any issue with the right technician on the phone.

The multiprinter is similar to the centurian in engineering and build, they just don't have as many features.  The centurian has a touch screen main control panel, at least the early 90's had them and the multiprinter is all knobs and toggle switches.  I saw a very clean mulitprinter on DS yesterday, and if they took care of it like they cleaned it, it would be a great first auto.

The centurians have AC heads, squeegee pressure regulators, they are very strong when it comes to doing most any type of printing.  The only drawbacks I can say about them is the lack of central off contact and lack of tool less print setting changes.  You have to use an allen wrench to change squeegee angle but you get really fast at doing that and I always had that wrench on me so I didn't have to search for it and waste time.  Changing the individual print head off contact takes a wrench but it's done fairly quickly, you just have to change each head when going back and forth from shirts to sweats or totes.  Changing pallets also takes a wrench and is a lot more time consuming than today's presses. 

I think if you had the "want to" you could retro-fit the print head to tool less with some kip levers installed on the squeegee bar and you could also install screen locks and maybe even squeegee and floodbar locks.

I think that if you are going to buy an older used auto, the centurian would be a fantastic press, and the multiprinter a close second.  I trust those machines and know what they can do and they can do it all for a very long time.  They are reliable as can be and with a multimeter in hand they are easy to fix. 

[Gilligan]

I'm in the same situation Chris... I keep seeing those presses on DS and thinking that they might not be a bad move.

Good topic, thanks for the reply Alan!

[ebscreen]

I wholeheartedly advocate automating as soon as you have the space and I recommend American presses
as an inexpensive option. I had an Auto-Rototex 2 and loved it. Good solid machine capable of producing
high quality work. They just aren't fun to setup jobs on due to the reasons Alan described. I also
think a little ingenuity could go a long way in making adjustments easier.

Only weak spot on these that I know of is the Geneva indexer. Watch it as the press indexes and look
for any loseness or stuttering. Not a deal breaker, as they can be welded etc, but can require a bit of work.
The forces there are pretty extreme.

They do tend to have larger print areas than modern presses, which equates to larger footprints. Shipping
these beasts could be a bit extreme. You would want to see the press in action before purchasing so I would
be wary of any long distance deals. That said, these things are all over the country so it would be likely you
could find one near you.

[ZooCity]

Thanks guys.

I started with an American Rototex manual and I agree on the "needs a wrench for everything" design being a bit of a pain.  But a lot of this can be easily modified as suggested with kip levers and whatnot.  I had used wingnuts rather than hex nuts on my platen mount for example for quicker platen adjustments.  I'm not overly concerned about no air locks on the squeegee and floods, I don't mind the U clamps so far at all, and screen locks could be added easily it's true.

The other side of that coin is that, having used pretty much all the different manual press designs over these years, I now have a lot more respect for a press that may be hard to adjust on the fly but holds it's ground.  The more I consider it, the less necessary I see many of the adjustment features provided you have an attentive pre-press regimen.  In the end this saves time when you aren't messing with every little adjustment every time you put a job on press.  And besides, we'd still have the manual for the odd placements and jobs that aren't worth re-setting the auto for. 

As an example, I've come around to deciding that I never want a manual press with the knob style off-contact adjustment again.  None of them hold it consistently without walking and it wastes time on press.  I think a tall screen clamp with a shim system would be superior.  You parallel your press at the lowest o.c. setting you'll ever use and use a set of 4-5 graduated shims under the screen to raise o.c.  The shims could have a simple clip system so as not to be a pain.  Done.  No messing around with o.c. and camber adjustments.  If the head is out of plane then you stop and get the wrenches and set it straight. Come to think of it, that aforementioned Roto had no micros, no o.c. adjustment and nothing that didn't use a wrench.  Even learning on it, it never once went out of reg on a single job.  I can't say that about any other model out there that I've used.  But anyways....

I have space but not enough for some of the American machines I've inquired about over the last year.  Some of these truly are monsters.  But everyone wants that bigger image area right? 

Forgot to ask- is there any possible way to use a pre-reg like the pin-lock on these?  I would imagine a simple mitering out of the screen holders would do it. 

I think I'm going to start planning for one of these machines and sit tight until one pops up close enough to drive to.  Any other caveats, I'd love to hear 'em. 

[alan802]

They are ready to go with the newman pin lock system, well, at least our centurian was.  I bet that the older ones would need some adjustments or some cutting to accommodate the triloc jig.

[jsheridan]

Crazy.. the Centurian was the first auto press I ever used.. and also the first auto that got me fired.. HAHA!!

I'd buy one had I the place to put it. Put some rollers in there and I'm sure it would outperform almost any machine from the 90's with a little tlc, a tool box and small machine shop out back to fabricate some upgrades.

They're tanks for sure. Will cost a pretty penny in freight as each head is independent of the base and then dis/assembly.. wrench for everything holds true there as well. where you place it has to be pretty level to begin with and no wooden or 2nd floor installs as well. The forces generated on index are insane as well as when the heads come down. This was a mans machines built by men with plenty of common sense on their minds. If you hesitated or got in the wrong place at the wrong time.. major injury ensued. The machine I stared on, was gotten from a company that went under when the operator zigged rather than zagged and got bent in two, breaking her back and paralyzed her from the chest down.

As for a workhorse.. in 91 when I started pulling shirts off, it had one speed.. 700 shirts an hour. The owner maintained it like a watch as it was all chain driven. Loudest press I've ever worked on.. an 8 color full size print was like listening to a symphony of whirs and buzz's and clicks and clacks.

[ZooCity]

Wow John.  Good stories.  Now I'm scared of the press. 

So how did you get fired 'cause of the Centurian?

Oh and we do have wood floors but 1st level and also built by men in the days of manliness and old growth timber.  We have a smaller, pickup truck height dock and overhead door.  I'll have to start doing some planning on this.

[Screened Gear]

old growth timber

Zoo,

Where are you at? The only time I have heard people talking about old growth wood is people from Humboldt California.

[ZooCity]

Missoula, Montana

[Gilligan]

Missoula, Montana

BTW, I checked out the geotag on a pic you sent me and that looks like an AWESOME town you live in there.  Must be quite a few on clear days and must look cool driving in and out of town.

Also, I am curious about the firing myself... I'm with you though Zoo... that press sounds scary now!  Still extremely tempting giving the prices of those guys.

[jsheridan]

old growth timber

Zoo,

Where are you at? The only time I have heard people talking about old growth wood is people from Humboldt California.

Or the northeast.. I made this from long leaf northern pine I reclaimed from the mill the old wood shop was located in. We counted some rings and got some material in the 350 year old range. I've never smelled wood as good as that. Even being so old, it still gummed up my tooling and had to be stickered when I planked that timber.

As for the firing.. I was the unloader when the other guy got yelled at and quit and didn't know about lint balls yet.

[ZooCity]

Resurrecting this thread!

I've struggled and lost the battle so far trying to print TW 5500 series (a very fast drying, gnarly, but awesome flatstock ink) with our American Tempo for the simple reason that you cannot set the machine to flood at rest.  No flood at rest + Montana's lack of humidity = instant dry in.   

Now, I have big ass swamp cooler that I picked up for the shop and I our textile WB inks are nowhere even close to being as squirrelly as the TW.  I'm sure the Texcharge, CCI and Matsui inks could be ok without flooding at rest provided we were moving quickly, which we do anyway, and we could always test print the head and stop it or jog it until it's flooded for breaks or stoppages... but as I still see these darn American textile machines going for beans (and now one within driving distance) I need to ask:

Can you print WB on these?  Or am I crazy to even try it? 

Talking about what looks like a Multiprinter with no "squeegeelizers". 

If the action is identical to the tempo, and the heads look identical to me, I don't feel like it's an option.  There's no way to modify it to avoid the screen being wide open at rest that I can imagine and I've thought about it pretty hard, it's just part of the engineering.

[ericheartsu]

We have a M&M Xpress, a step between the multi printer and the centurian, and we run rollers, with WB and Discharge all day on it!

[ZooCity]

We have a M&M Xpress, a step between the multi printer and the centurian, and we run rollers, with WB and Discharge all day on it!

Can it flood at rest?  pics?