Author Topic: Printing Nylon Flags  (Read 2281 times)

Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4914
Printing Nylon Flags
« on: July 30, 2012, 06:27:55 PM »
Doesn't sound like a big deal to me- nylobond in some WFX Epic Performance and away we go. 

Anything I'm missing here?  Perhaps need to wipe the nylon down with a little isopropyl? 


Offline Admiral

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 845
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2012, 01:52:56 AM »
should be pretty standard - nylobond added and it prints easy, I aim for 290-300 degrees in the dryer, mainly have just done a lot of cheap bags

Offline RICK STEFANICK

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1925
  • INDUSTRY CONSULTANT-OPERATIONS SPECIALIST
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2012, 07:48:42 AM »
or you can use nylon plastisol and eliminate the nylobond all together. you will get a cleaner less glossy print with standard nylon inks.
Specializing in shop assessment's, flow and efficiency

Offline Homer

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3146
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2012, 08:11:52 AM »
watch your pressure, we just ran some and I did too many strokes & pressure and you could see the image on the opposite side.
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...

Offline whitewater

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1750
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2012, 09:26:42 AM »
seeeing through the other side is what happened to me... Not sure what flags you are going, but i did some large mutha's.. so what he did was sew 2 together back to back and put something in the middle if they wanted to hang outside...

I will not do them again...i hated it.

Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4914
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2012, 01:55:54 PM »
I don't think seeing through is an issue for these, they are going to burning man I believe and have a different purpose than flying on a pole but I thought of that as being a potential issue.

I suggested finding a dye sub house for these right out the gates but the quotes the client gathered were exorbitant.  The print area is only 19"x26" if I recall so I just quoted it out same as printing "delicates" with the "sleeves and special locations" charges (adds $0.50 per all together) and a $50 setup for the larger format size (our std is 15x18, gotta pay a little for bigger).  They're buying their own blank white flags and will probably get all 24 done for about the cost of two of them dye-subbed.  The only thing I'm not jazzed about is ensuring we throw the flags square onto the platen but I think a table beneath the platen with guide marks should do the trick. 

Rick, I've never used "nylon" inks, simply added nylobond (where required or desired for extra insurance) to low-cure plastisols.  They are a little glossy I suppose.  Does IC make the nylon inks then and are they phthalate-free?

Offline Homer

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3146
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2012, 03:27:25 PM »
just another quick thought. make sure your platens are clean, new pallet tape is a given but you will see every damn nick and chip in your platens, strands of thread are the worst.
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...

Offline whitewater

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1750
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 06:07:59 PM »
just another quick thought. make sure your platens are clean, new pallet tape is a given but you will see every damn nick and chip in your platens, strands of thread are the worst.

word

Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4914
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 03:57:29 PM »
Got the flags and called the mfg.  They insist that there's no way to use plastisol on them- they say they'll melt at 290˚F and they are coated.  I'm not so sure as they seemed to be a little ignorant on the subject.  We've had zero issues printing onto nylon with low-cure temp plastisol + nylobond in the past.  My understanding is that nylobond allows the plastisol to adhere through any coating correct?

Did anyone have melting issues with 100% nylon flags?   

If so, what do you recommend as an alternate ink?  I would assume something from Nazdar?

Offline mk162

  • Ludicrous Speed Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 7774
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2012, 04:24:13 PM »
you should be fine with nylobond, you can always hit them with a little rubbing alcohol before hand to get any waterproofing off.

Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4914
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2012, 05:17:57 PM »
 
you should be fine with nylobond, you can always hit them with a little rubbing alcohol before hand to get any waterproofing off.

That's what I thought.  I'm surprised at how little some shops know about their own process.  This guy said "that sounds like a lot of work".....?   Adding catalyst and printing plastisol is a lot of work?  Not in my book. 

Offline Inkworks

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1761
  • Pad&Screenprinter
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2012, 05:22:49 PM »
The only way to be sure is to try, but my understanding is that the Nylon catalyst for plastisols just lowers the cure temp. They used to suggest wiping nylon with M.E.K. to get rid of the waterproof coating, but that's nasty stuff.

We just use solvent based inks, most work just fine on nylon without any pretreatment. I'd mix a tiny bit of Nylon catalyst with some plastisol and give it a try though.
Wishin' I was Fishin'

Offline ScreenFoo

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1296
  • Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 09:07:52 PM »
More than a few years ago I did this for retail, and I think you're right on Zoo.   IMHO the toughest part was making a three by five foot frame and stretching it by hand via staples/tape.  Blisters.

The guy I worked with actually had a serger and did the flags, but just bought reasonably heavy weight nylon at the fabric store, and it worked great.  I'd think they went well over 300--the parts not covered with ink, that is.
I guess I might be misunderstanding this as well, but my understanding has always been that catalyst doesn't really lower the cure temp, but forces a cure over time, as well as 'eating into' any waterproof coating.
I don't know if you guys have played around a lot with catalyst, but you can print some pretty weird stuff with it.  I've heard of a shop that did notebook covers with it.   (Better than huffin' vinyl I guess  ;) )

Why would a nylon flag need a waterproof coating anyway?  Hmmm....


Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4914
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2012, 06:04:45 PM »
Quote
catalyst doesn't really lower the cure temp, but forces a cure over time, as well as 'eating into' any waterproof coating.

I believe that is correct.  My low-curing Performance Base is getting the temp down. 

Only concern I have is lack of tech data from WFX for adding nylobond.  They mention it in the TDS for their "Nylon Mesh Base" but not anywhere else I can find.  Should be fine but I like to have that data, gee dang it. 

Just ran a test on one flag and it handled 360˚F, no problems as all, even ironed the crease marks out from folding as a bonus.  I think some folks are just not willing to watch their parameters and melt something and then assume it 'can't be done'. 

Offline Ripcord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
Re: Printing Nylon Flags
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2012, 06:21:46 PM »
I've done them and they didn't melt even at 350 or higher. One color prints are easy. Add Nylobond to the ink and use a lighter than normal stroke. If it's a multicolor print you will want to flash between colors. Also you will want to flash before you print the first color because the flash temporarily shrinks the nylon. If you don't flash before the first color, the second color may not register.
Raster to vector conversion