Poll

Are you offering DTG?

No, It looks horrible and I want nothing to do with it!
3 (17.6%)
'thinking about it, not sure it's there yet.
2 (11.8%)
Offering it, but done by somebody else
3 (17.6%)
We are about to bring it in house
1 (5.9%)
we offer it and love the results
2 (11.8%)
we offer it and don't really care for the results.
2 (11.8%)
it can look fine, but it's too expensive, too slow or not fitting our business model
4 (23.5%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closes: March 23, 2024, 11:37:08 AM

Author Topic: Are you doing DTG?  (Read 284 times)

Offline blue moon

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Are you doing DTG?
« on: February 22, 2024, 10:37:08 AM »
Just curious what ppl are thinking about DTG. There's a big discussion going on about DTF, but not much is said about DTG. To me it feels like it's on par with screenprinting if it's an option. We have the look, feel and durability so close it's hard to tell what's what. At the same time, I've seen so many horrible prints that it does not surprise me ppl are not adopting it more.
Thus the poll. Let's see what the prevailing thoughts are...

thanx,

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!


Offline zanegun08

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2024, 11:10:46 AM »
I currently subcontract to a company that has an M&R Polaris, and for images that make sense to be done DTG, like photorealistic images and short run I think the results are decent, however it fails at sharp text so it's more so for artwork and not the best for all types of art.

I've basically had samples from every pro grade DTG printer over the years, and for photo realistic stuff they work decent, but for spot colors they work not so great.  M&R Maverick was better than Polaris as it had a wider color gamut in my opinion.  Soon will have ROQ Now in the near horizon, but DTG is only good if used in the right way for the right image, same with DTF, same with screen printing, same with Hybrid.  No tool is one size fits all.

Pierre post some of your DTG prints so we can take a look.  Post some that have big blocks of spot colors if you do anything like that.

The biggest missing thing about all this conversation is that DTF, DTG, any transfer all work best for low quantities, but if you aren't automating your low quantity sales you are going to be bogged down to make a penny instead of dimes.  As well as word of mouth is the best advertising, so when you pass off DTF as a good product, your business may get known as a low quality business.  There is a fine line

https://shop.onxmaps.com/products/hunt-midwest-whitetail-lp-tee is an example of both DTG for the main image, and Hybrid Transfer for the Logo so it's sharp.  This was printed on the Polaris

Offline GraphicDisorder

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2024, 11:37:15 AM »
The biggest missing thing about all this conversation is that DTF, DTG, any transfer all work best for low quantities, but if you aren't automating your low quantity sales you are going to be bogged down to make a penny instead of dimes.  As well as word of mouth is the best advertising, so when you pass off DTF as a good product, your business may get known as a low quality business.  There is a fine line

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Offline GoWestRob

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2024, 11:44:45 AM »
I'm starting to warm up to DTG.  Last year we had a client want to do a full color comic book cover on black shirts, tons of colors, photoshop effects and fine detail so we couldn't have screenprinted it.  300 shirts.  We did Supacolor transfers, the image was perfect but it was a giant rectangle transfer and probably pretty uncomfortable.  For this year's version with similar artwork, also 300 pcs, they specifically asked if there was any other method different from what we did in 2023.  We outsourced it to a shop with a Polaris but our cost was crazy, $19/ea for front and back, hard to mark that up to the client at a price they'll pay.  The lack of economies of scale with DTG is still difficult.  We ended up simplifying the artwork so we could DTG the front and screenprint the back.  Gotta say, the image quality and handfeel of the Polaris is really a step forward for DTG. 

With that said, I doubt we have a Polaris or Maverick in our future.  We'd have to get to the point where we're outsourcing DTG work daily to consider bringing it in house, and for now it's only a few jobs per year.

Offline tonypep

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2024, 12:12:59 PM »
The Polaris is listed at $829,000 so........how would your ROI be on those low quantity orders (assuming you live to be 1,000 ys old). What are the cost of consumables, any info on that?

Offline zanegun08

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2024, 12:58:57 PM »
Why buy one and deal with the headache when you can just outsource to someone who has the equipment.  There are already companies that have had Polaris that have gone out of business even with it being so new.

I've posted before https://imprintmaker.com/ is who I use, $9.99 for a for a Canvas 3001 with a 12" x 13.5" image or $2 more to go up to 14.5" x 18".  Free shipping at 24 pieces, and you can provide your own garments as well though I only do that if it's large orders which for DTG it typically isn't.  That print price of $4.99 for the smaller image is less than a DTF transfer (unless maybe you are printing it yourself), Supacolors 11" x 14" DTF is more until you hit 100+ pieces and you still have to heat press them yourself.

They post good ai generated images on instagram https://www.instagram.com/imprintmaker/ which this is where DTG excels.  If you send them a spot color design or small text you'll probably by disappointed, but if you have images like they show on their insta you'll probably like the results.

The best part is, when the newest one comes along, you can just sub out to someone that has that.

The place that makes the OvalJet changed their whole business model to sell a full DTF solution, from software to cutting - https://www.240tech.com/ but Ovaljet prints weren't that good anyhow, felt like sandpaper though a heat press could improve that.  I haven't seen their DTF prints but assuming they are similar to all the rest. 

Also DTF for large prints is expensive, at 4 cents per square inch that same 11" x 14" is $6.16 so the cost doesn't even pan out that well for DTF for large images as well, totally ignoring the fact it feels like a sticker on the shirt, and you can't just halftone every image to make it feel softer.

Offline GoWestRob

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2024, 01:37:20 PM »
Great assessment Zane.  ImprintMaker is also who we used for our Polaris place.  They're extremely fast, great service and can't beat that price!

Offline ericheartsu

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2024, 01:42:45 PM »
Zane is very smart, and i'm lucky to call him a friend, and work with him.
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Offline Nation03

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2024, 02:18:47 PM »
I had visions of grandeur for the DTG business last year and bought an F2100. In hindsight, bad move lol. I'm now stuck with an expensive lease on a machine we don't really use and they dropped in price dramatically soon after we bought it. It's my own fault. I had this idea in my head that I would be able to slowly transition out of screen printing and move more to the digital side of things. That hasn't been the case, and I don't love the results. I'm sure we can get it right with some trial and error, however, we're so busy screen printing I don't have the time to mess with DTG. I use it for DTF transfers occasionally, but that's really the only use case. I'll try to keep it in good shape and maybe if we hit a slow period I'll try to figure out a business model for it or I'll sell it for pennies once it's paid off.

Offline mk162

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2024, 03:04:26 PM »
I have lots of opinions on this.  I think DTF overall is a better fit for most things.  Our throughput per hour is magnitudes higher with DTF than DTG.

We currently offer light garment DTG/no white ink.  We pretreat our garments so the prints are brighter and wash better.  It's a noticeable difference, that's why we do it.

Offline blue moon

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2024, 03:05:45 PM »
I had visions of grandeur for the DTG business last year and bought an F2100. In hindsight, bad move lol. I'm now stuck with an expensive lease on a machine we don't really use and they dropped in price dramatically soon after we bought it. It's my own fault. I had this idea in my head that I would be able to slowly transition out of screen printing and move more to the digital side of things. That hasn't been the case, and I don't love the results. I'm sure we can get it right with some trial and error, however, we're so busy screen printing I don't have the time to mess with DTG. I use it for DTF transfers occasionally, but that's really the only use case. I'll try to keep it in good shape and maybe if we hit a slow period I'll try to figure out a business model for it or I'll sell it for pennies once it's paid off.

if you are interested, I can get you in touch with our Production Manager who knows the EPSON DTG inside out. You can get the RIP, ink, pretreatment settings and garment choices. Would make your life a lot easier if you chose to use it.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline blue moon

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2024, 03:13:55 PM »

Pierre post some of your DTG prints so we can take a look.  Post some that have big blocks of spot colors if you do anything like that.

Lighter orange is sp. The color is uniform, that's just light reflection. You can se both SP and DTG have the same pattern in it.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2024, 03:16:40 PM by blue moon »
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline zanegun08

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2024, 06:03:29 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to post, not enough photos to backup what people say on here (me included), both of those look fine for 90% of customers.

The blue on the DTG print looks like it isn't as solid as the screen print which is pretty common for DTG.  Though I'm sure from normal viewing distances they both look good.

Nice showcase of what can be done.



Offline blue moon

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Re: Are you doing DTG?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2024, 09:05:44 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to post, not enough photos to backup what people say on here (me included), both of those look fine for 90% of customers.

The blue on the DTG print looks like it isn't as solid as the screen print which is pretty common for DTG.  Though I'm sure from normal viewing distances they both look good.

Nice showcase of what can be done.
Dm me your address and i’ll send you a sample!
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!