Screen Printing HSB and Color Separations

[JBLUE]

Its nice to know this is coming out to more than just a few. I know a guy that has sepped for over 20 years and he has been using HSB for a long time. His seps have been killing it for a long time.

[mk162]

I sepped a design today that wouldn't come out right in PS at all with both Easy Art and Quikseps, SS Raster nailed it.  I didn't print any of them yet, but closest to the original goes to SS raster.  And it did it in fewer colors.

[AdvancedArtist]

Here is perfect example of why you need to understand this it can be game changer in your business especially when you have limited press colors.

Below is client supplied art needing 6 color in spot colors. The printer only has a 4 color press. Going with the typical spot color route the printer would not have enough colors. However converting the vector to raster and then sepping from the HSB understand it can be done with just 3 colors or 4 if going on black tshirts. Especially if the guy down street quotes 6 colors and you quote 3. Also you will be able to get the most color you can out of your limited press colors.

Now we can see that HSB opens up much more than just separation but an easier understanding of color to work with and the ability to get colors down on some jobs easily.



This is critical and everyone needs to understand color clearly. That is what we do as printers reproduce images and graphics in color HSB makes it easy and accurate.

[inkman996]

Not busting your chops Tom but I fail to see your vodoo with your technique on the above example. I look at it and see three colors easily, I would never think that had to be done in six nor five as a rule. I know if it was vector I could rip it myself but if provided to me as a raster someone like Dan or many others here could give that back to me as three on whites.

Obviously the image would print better with more colors such as the maroonish color, it simply would look better as a spot color versus a mix which BTW is not always the easiest thing for print shops to accomplish. Everyone under the sun has different printing parameters than the next guy, inks are different, mesh counts are all over the board and obviously not all shops can nail perfect halftones required to pull off decent color blending on press.

[AdvancedArtist]

Not busting your chops Tom but I fail to see your vodoo with your technique on the above example. I look at it and see three colors easily, I would never think that had to be done in six nor five as a rule. I know if it was vector I could rip it myself but if provided to me as a raster someone like Dan or many others here could give that back to me as three on whites.

Obviously the image would print better with more colors such as the maroonish color, it simply would look better as a spot color versus a mix which BTW is not always the easiest thing for print shops to accomplish. Everyone under the sun has different printing parameters than the next guy, inks are different, mesh counts are all over the board and obviously not all shops can nail perfect halftones required to pull off decent color blending on press.

Its not really voodo but a allot of newbies or start ups would look at it that way believe me. We that have experience of course or I could do it as an over print from vector also. But HSB lets us peal back the black and get to the color behind the black in a few easy steps and then HSL sep and it is done. So the process of getting to the color to see what your options are is very simple and the process of sepping can also be very simple.

[mk162]

Tom, can you post what EasyArt or Quikseps would have spit out on that same design?

I think this is where SS Raster shines is head to head against pre-packaged sep programs.

[AdvancedArtist]

Tom, can you post what EasyArt or Quikseps would have spit out on that same design?

I think this is where SS Raster shines is head to head against pre-packaged sep programs.

I would love to but I do not have either of those programs and that one is really simple I just did it manually actually. Channel mixer pulled the black and hue and then with the HSL tool pull the red and yellow out. The part I like most about HSB is the pull back of the black in the correct color space. BAM you see the colors and you also see there densities at which point you can make decisions about how the separation will proceed. For years in PS I was just trying color ranges and other things not pulling my black and sepping from the hue. Which is why it was something I just decided to send out because it was too time consuming and it was to easy to make mistakes. In HSB first step Split Color and Black and the graphic is opened right up then you know what the colors are just pull them.

[inkman996]

After watching your videos I get lost because when you use the hue/saturation/lightness adjustment to pull a color you are only offered red/yellow/cyan/blue/magenta to work with. How do you handle any other color like a purple or some other secondary color?

[inkman996]

I'm sorry I meant the channel mixer

[AdvancedArtist]

To pull say a purple you can use the master channel in the HSL to move your purple into say pure Magenta or Blue and then just pull the Magenta or Blue with the HSL or you could shift that color to yellow or megenta and then pull it with the Channel Mixer. If you have Megenta or Blue in the art pull it to a sep before you move your purple to one of the easy to pull colors. I will try to do a vdeo on this within the week its pretty easy or maybe Jeff can do one on this.

There are actually many ways to do this. But it is best to get the black/color split first.

[blue moon]

Tom, can you post what EasyArt or Quikseps would have spit out on that same design?

I think this is where SS Raster shines is head to head against pre-packaged sep programs.

Brad,

Tom was asked behind the scenes to keep his discussion to his products. We value his knowledge and contribution so please let's keep it the way he is doing it right now. Tom, thank you for your contributions and sharing your knowledge. Even though it was said already, it will not hurt to hear it again, it is very much appreciated!!!

thanx,

pierre

p.s. If somebody else with the programs wishes to show the differences, please coordinate with Tom and post. There are no issues with the end users expressing their unbiased opinions. We just want to prevent one manufacturer/supplier/designer or what ever bashing another.

[Dottonedan]

Tom, can you post what EasyArt or Quikseps would have spit out on that same design?

I think this is where SS Raster shines is head to head against pre-packaged sep programs.

I can see te value in comparing, but I do not want X Co. posting the comparison. I'd rather have a 3rd party such as a MK162 posing the comparison than a representative from any one of those company's.  This is the reason I've never posted a comparison of my own seps up against a Quick Seps, T-Seps, EasyArt or a NetSeps.  It's not real cool to do and leaves the window open for the question, Did or could that Co stack the deck in their favor so to speak.  I'm not saying that any one of those Co's or Tom would or has done this before, but just having a 3rd party posing the comparisons is more like fair play.


So if you own 2-4 of these sep programs and also own Toms Simple Seps raster yourself, feel free to post up te same jobs that has been done by all of them...but better yet, post up a picture...of the same printer....same print parameters...printing the same job. A photo of the printed tees.  Thats very telling as well.


I'm sure Toms can turn out very good on press as well as it does on the screen, but like some say, each printer is going to produce a different look than another printer.


I tried this while at Disney before. I separated a job and sent the seps out to 4 different company's and had each print it for approval. Same colors, same everything called out. Each looked different and a few to a great degree....Maybe one looked great and two looked ok but maybe the last looked less perfect than the other three. So, each were pretty sellable and very approvable...yet all slightly different.  It was more of a test to show the higher ups that we can get more consistency from shop to shop by providing our own "initial approved seps".


We had first hand knowledge that you could send an art file out to each one...and each separate it how they felt it should be...and the results can be vastly different with 2-5 revisions per every time we took it to a new shop. Wasted time and money.

[Dottonedan]

Tom, can you post what EasyArt or Quikseps would have spit out on that same design?

I think this is where SS Raster shines is head to head against pre-packaged sep programs.

Brad,

Tom was asked behind the scenes to keep his discussion to his products. We value his knowledge and contribution so please let's keep it the way he is doing it right now. Tom, thank you for your contributions and sharing your knowledge. Even though it was said already, it will not hurt to hear it again, it is very much appreciated!!!

thanx,

pierre

p.s. If somebody else with the programs wishes to show the differences, please coordinate with Tom and post. There are no issues with the end users expressing their unbiased opinions. We just want to prevent one manufacturer/supplier/designer or what ever bashing another.

Ditto.

[AdvancedArtist]

Honestly I am more interested in getting the color information out and understanding in HSB as it relates to screen printing more then anything else. Automation is great but understanding the math and reasons with color is the critical point IMHO.

Many here including myself going back year or more would never have imagined I would be presenting this information in CorelDRAW. But it is working with the correct color space, correct color model and the easy tools.

Getting started with Simulated Color Management off a color space that is not destructive and ideal tools for the HSB separating. PS has the same tools and this can be done in PS it just a bit more complicated.

[AdvancedArtist]

Brad,

Tom was asked behind the scenes to keep his discussion to his products. We value his knowledge and contribution so please let's keep it the way he is doing it right now. Tom, thank you for your contributions and sharing your knowledge. Even though it was said already, it will not hurt to hear it again, it is very much appreciated!!!

thanx,

pierre

p.s. If somebody else with the programs wishes to show the differences, please coordinate with Tom and post. There are no issues with the end users expressing their unbiased opinions. We just want to prevent one manufacturer/supplier/designer or what ever bashing another.

Pierre,

Would you be open to some critiques relating to the resent award winning prints you had at ISS which were great prints but on the color seps side there is room for improvement. Not in the spirit of competition but in the spirit of understanding and sharing with the goal of improving what is possible in screen printing.