Author Topic: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!  (Read 17638 times)

Offline middletownink

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AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« on: July 26, 2013, 08:53:47 AM »
about 6 wks ago we  got our new film output printer.  Epson 4900.  I am now finally getting around to linearizing it.  I have the readings from a densitometer.  When I put the numbers in I get a nice looking curve but my films print out like this.
The one on the right is my original print the one on the left is after I put in my new numbers.  I went through the "knowledge base" online and the articles are not very helpful with this aspect of the dot gain.

Has anyone else run into this issue?
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Offline Homer

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2013, 09:12:49 AM »
yup. same issues I had. I sent my films off to Pierre and I dropped the numbers in and I still couldn't dial it in. accurip really isn't too accurate. I need to make the change to film maker, one of these days.
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...

Offline middletownink

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2013, 09:23:18 AM »
O Homer..... :'( I was so hoping it was user error!!
-You Think It! - We Print It!-

Offline Homer

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2013, 09:53:38 AM »
O Homer..... :'( I was so hoping it was user error!!

very well could be, I know the ink and film had something to do with it too. I'm at the 2880 dpi setting now and it appears better but the 80% range and up goes to mud.
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...

Offline blue moon

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2013, 12:01:45 PM »
try their forum or online tech support. It is supposed to be free!

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline aauusa

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2013, 12:37:21 PM »
May be a long shot but have you adjusted the droplet weight in accurip?

Offline Sbrem

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2013, 09:17:48 AM »
Unbelievable, me too! Just over the weekend. I have a support request into AccuRIP, and they usually respond pretty well. Now, we run off one cartridge; check Multi-Black, uncheck all carts not being used. To set the droplet weight, you have to uncheck Multi-Black to reach that option. We're set on 12 (out of 15) to get the solid blacks we need. I was just reading over the instructions from AccuRIP, and they say to print the test, measure with the densitometer, and put the numbers into the appropriate boxes in the dot gain curve. Could that mean that we should be putting in higher numbers, since say, 20% is printing at 30%, should we be putting that into the 20% box, as opposed to the compensated numbers creating the new curve? That maybe AR compensates from there? That would be the opposite of creating the curve in Photoshop, yes? Hmmm...

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline blue moon

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 09:40:29 AM »
Unbelievable, me too! Just over the weekend. I have a support request into AccuRIP, and they usually respond pretty well. Now, we run off one cartridge; check Multi-Black, uncheck all carts not being used. To set the droplet weight, you have to uncheck Multi-Black to reach that option. We're set on 12 (out of 15) to get the solid blacks we need. I was just reading over the instructions from AccuRIP, and they say to print the test, measure with the densitometer, and put the numbers into the appropriate boxes in the dot gain curve. Could that mean that we should be putting in higher numbers, since say, 20% is printing at 30%, should we be putting that into the 20% box, as opposed to the compensated numbers creating the new curve? That maybe AR compensates from there? That would be the opposite of creating the curve in Photoshop, yes? Hmmm...

Steve

Megan tried entering the readings into the boxes and the sizes were still wrong. . .

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Sbrem

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 10:02:10 AM »
OK, this just in from AccuRIP

1. What brand film are you using?

2, Who's ink is being used?

3. Single black or all black ink system?

4. What resolution was the target print printed at?

5. Did you print a Density Test print page? What is the droplet weight number being used?

6. What kind of densitometer was used to measure your print and was it calibrated before the reading?

Once I gain a clearer picture I will be more helpful to discovering the reason for the heavy print outs.



Pierre, I'm pretty sure it's a transmissive densitometer, model perhaps?

We will get this right, I'm sure.




Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline blue moon

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2013, 10:11:36 AM »
OK, this just in from AccuRIP

1. What brand film are you using?

2, Who's ink is being used?

3. Single black or all black ink system?

4. What resolution was the target print printed at?

5. Did you print a Density Test print page? What is the droplet weight number being used?

6. What kind of densitometer was used to measure your print and was it calibrated before the reading?

Once I gain a clearer picture I will be more helpful to discovering the reason for the heavy print outs.



Pierre, I'm pretty sure it's a transmissive densitometer, model perhaps?

We will get this right, I'm sure.




Steve

betalog something, 130  I think. Used in transmissive mode. calibration checked recently and is within 0.5% of the calibration page. I've been using it for years and it works fine.

feel free to pass my info to Charlie and have him call me directly if it would make things easier.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Sbrem

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2013, 05:59:27 PM »
OK, I've heard from Charlie at AccuRIP; he says, print out the test target in AccuRIP, and have that read. When you get your readings back, and enter them, DO NOT reprint the test from AccuRIP, it's what he called a virgin file, the settings won't change it. So, I think, after you get the readings back, print out Pierre's test graphics and compare that to the original you kept when you sent it to him originally. I sent in one more question to be sure, and I'll post the answer once I get the it.

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline Sbrem

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2013, 06:09:00 PM »
Apparently, this came in while I was typing the last update... I had asked if the 50% reading came back as 60%, should I enter 60% into the 50% box? His answer:


Correct. After you take the reading from the target print you put the numbers into the corresponding fields. If the 50% reads 60% put 60 into the 50 field and it will curve it back for you.

Remember that after that the Target print will never change regardless of the new settings. That is what makes it a Target print, its RAW data. What you will see change will be the prints form your graphics app that pass through the RIP after that.

Make a bunch of % squares in Illustrator and print you will see the difference.

Let me know of your understanding and success.
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't

Offline blue moon

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2013, 06:37:24 PM »
as with the rest of the AccuRIP, Charlie is trying to make the printer's life easier. It does make more sense to enter data that way.

I do think that we tried what he is saying, but at least we know now what's supposed to be done. I'll look around and see if I can find the old films I read for everybody and give the numbers to enter into the curve dialog.

pierre
Yes, we've won our share of awards, and yes, I've tested stuff and read the scientific papers, but ultimately take everything I say with more than just a grain of salt! So if you are looking for trouble, just do as I say or even better, do something I said years ago!

Offline Homer

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2013, 06:41:01 PM »
Good info Steve, thank you for sharing..and thanks P for helping us out too.
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...

Offline Sbrem

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Re: AccuRIP and the dot gain setup....WTH!!!!
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2013, 08:08:30 AM »
as with the rest of the AccuRIP, Charlie is trying to make the printer's life easier. It does make more sense to enter data that way.

I do think that we tried what he is saying, but at least we know now what's supposed to be done. I'll look around and see if I can find the old films I read for everybody and give the numbers to enter into the curve dialog.

pierre

We should actually print the test target that comes with AccuRIP (in the dot gain control dialog) according to Charlie, but I'm not exactly sure how that would make a difference... anyway, this should end the head scratching. (Really, when the film came out darker, didn't it just suck the air out of you? :o)

Steve
I made a mistake once; I thought I was wrong about something; I wasn't