Author Topic: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison  (Read 13169 times)

Offline pwalsh

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2012, 02:24:00 PM »
Peter could you pls elaborate? To the best of my knowledge which is dim at best; I believe the Oasis products were actually produced by Magna. Will there be a change in product names/#s? Also still having trouble locating pigments and it seems they are often only available in gallons. On a side note if quarts will be more readily available it would be best to offer them in dispensible squeeze bottles as many of them are prone to drying and flaking.
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Tony:  Thanks for your inquiry on the status of PolyOne Wilflex and MagnaColours water based textile inks.  I’ll provide an update that’s as complete as possible, and I invite anyone with additional questions to check out the Nazdar SourceOne website @ www.SourceOneOnline.com, email  cserv@sourceoneonline.com, phone (888) 578-5713, fax (888) 258-5050 or reach out to me directly via email or PM. 

The Beginning:   PolyOne and MagnaColours developed a relationship about eight years ago for PolyOne to act as the Master Distributor to bring a select group of Magna manufactured water based textile screen-printing inks under the Wilflex Oasis brand to market through PolyOne’s distribution network.  This relationship has proved successful for Magna, PolyOne, Distribution and the customers we serve.   

Recent Events:   The end of the PolyOne and MagnaColours relationship occurred due to changes in the industry that occurred over time that changed the basic structure the PolyOne and Magna relationship was built upon.  PolyOne is primarily a manufacturer of Plastisol PVC and other oil based PVC free ink chemistries, that views water base inks as a valuable complimentary product, but not necessarily a replacement to their other core ink technologies.  MagnaColours by contrast is a full-line manufacturer of water based PVC Free ink systems, that is looking to bring a much wider range of products to market that they consider to be viable replacements for some current PVC and Oil based ink systems. 

Future Directions:    PolyOne has embarked on a program to bring manufacturing of the Wilflex Oasis product line under their direct control, and will be introducing an updated Oasis range of products in the coming weeks and months.  MagnaColours has made a major commitment to the US, Mexico, Central America, and Canadian markets.  The first step completed by Magna was to establish a direct distribution program with Nazdar SourceOne to bring the full MagnaPrint product range to the markets that we serve.  One important point that I would like to make is that this relationship officially commenced as of March 5th, 2012. 

Where Are We Now?   PolyOne, MagnaColours, Nazdar SourceOne and other Wilflex Distributors have been working hard behind the scenes to manage inventories of the Magna manufactured Wilflex Oasis products to do our very best to ensure continuity of supply to existing Wilflex Oasis users.  PolyOne is working to complete the launch and roll-out for the new PolyOne manufactured Oasis product line, while MagnaColours and Nazdar SourceOne are ramping up inventories of an expanded range of MagnaPrint branded inks for distribution to our customers.  I also want to set realistic expectations for people reading this post and state that it will take Magna & SourceOne a couple of months to get the pipeline fully filled

Want to find out more? Check out the Nazdar SourceOne website @ www.SourceOneOnline.com, email  cserv@sourceoneonline.com, phone (888) 578-5713, fax (888) 258-5050 or reach out to me directly via email or PM. 
Peter G. Walsh - Executive Vice President
The M&R Companies - Roselle, IL USA
Email:  peter.walsh@mrprint.com
Office 847-410-3445 / Cell 913-579-6662


Offline Itsa Little CrOoked

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2012, 07:14:07 PM »
I hesitate to reply to this thread, I'm such a lightweight with WB & discharge, but I have 2  persistent problem colors: I can't discharge a decent BRIGHT RED, and my pigmented WHITE discharge is just not really white enough.

I'm using Matsui clear bases with PC Pigments and Matsui's color matching software, but find the CCI D White soooo printable.

Anybody got a consistent solution for DISCHARGED Reds and a Bright Whites? I'll try anything at this point. All my other colors are easier than those.

I've been at this for just over a year, and still chasing a good red.

Oh, and is Sim Process doable with Discharge at a "Sophomore" level? I'd pay for some decent seps, to get started, although I do all my spot seps in house. (With varying results, especially with halftones.) Maybe 2nd Semester Freshman is more realistic. :)

Offline jasonl

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2012, 07:21:28 PM »
I did this today with matsui base and pigments to get a pms185, still off a little though.  VERY bright, this is a crappy pic.

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Offline Prosperi-Tees

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2012, 07:31:14 PM »
I hesitate to reply to this thread, I'm such a lightweight with WB & discharge, but I have 2  persistent problem colors: I can't discharge a decent BRIGHT RED, and my pigmented WHITE discharge is just not really white enough.

I'm using Matsui clear bases with PC Pigments and Matsui's color matching software, but find the CCI D White soooo printable.

Anybody got a consistent solution for DISCHARGED Reds and a Bright Whites? I'll try anything at this point. All my other colors are easier than those.

I've been at this for just over a year, and still chasing a good red.

Oh, and is Sim Process doable with Discharge at a "Sophomore" level? I'd pay for some decent seps, to get started, although I do all my spot seps in house. (With varying results, especially with halftones.) Maybe 2nd Semester Freshman is more realistic. :)

Sericol for a bright red out of the bucket. I love the CCI white. This pic sucks but I am totally satisfied with it.
http://www.sericol.com/landingpages/texcharge/texchargeperformance.html

Offline Itsa Little CrOoked

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2012, 08:12:30 PM »
I did this today with matsui base and pigments to get a pms185, still off a little though.  VERY bright, this is a crappy pic.




Hey Jasonl, thanks for posting the pic. I've done 185, 186, 1935, and all manner of fizzywoogah with each of those three colors with limited success. I do agree that the 185 might have been the best.... I hate when my redd shifts to the PINK, but the 185 looked a skoche too Orange to my eye.

And @ Prosperitees, I'd buy some Sericol Discharge red, if you'd post the specifics of which one you buy. Is it ready to print as a straight WB, or as a discharge after adding the activator? And I'm not overly excited about the actual WHITENESS of the CCI D White after a wash or two. It's OK, just not jaw dropping white, like 2 passes of Matsui 301W--Print Flash Print. That's some white ink right there, dead flat, with a decent hand.

Offline Prosperi-Tees

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2012, 08:14:32 PM »
Ill PM you.

Offline jasonl

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2012, 08:15:26 PM »
I did this today with matsui base and pigments to get a pms185, still off a little though.  VERY bright, this is a crappy pic.




Hey Jasonl, thanks for posting the pic. I've done 185, 186, 1935, and all manner of fizzywoogah with each of those three colors with limited success. I do agree that the 185 might have been the best.... I hate when my redd shifts to the PINK, but the 185 looked a skoche too Orange to my eye.

And @ Prosperitees, I'd buy some Sericol Discharge red, if you'd post the specifics of which one you buy. Is it ready to print as a straight WB, or as a discharge after adding the activator? And I'm not overly excited about the actual WHITENESS of the CCI D White after a wash or two. It's OK, just not jaw dropping white, like 2 passes of Matsui 301W--Print Flash Print. That's some white ink right there, dead flat, with a decent hand.


Yep, on the orange side in my opinion.  I am still looking.  Sericol is next for me.  Just gotta find where to get it in GA.
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Offline ZooCity

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2012, 08:45:17 PM »
Peter, thanks for that history and update.  I'm gearing up to do a whole lot of wb and discharge and this knowledge is empowering.  It's more important to me that our inks are consistently manufactured, readily available and backed up with tech support and documentation than anything else so it helps a lot to know what's going on with the manufacturing side in making decisions.   I think my requirements above are even more important with wb and discharge inks due to the need to formulate your own in-house recipes. You don't want to have to change ink brands often or ever if at all possible after putting all that r&d into it.  With all the variance in screen printing to begin with and the wild variance in clothing dye lots and methods having your ink under control as a variable seems critical here.

JasonL and others: I'm a discharge virgin but, from what everyone else is saying and from experience with ink generally I think the secret to getting your colors lies in the pigment loading.  Every shirt is going to discharge to a certain degree and having enough and the right kind of pigments to smooth out those differences is probably the key.  Kinda like printing with quality, high-pigment load plastisols.  Those inks can often go down and cover up every substate color from whites to black and yield consistent color tones across the board.  We do print with 2 wb ink systems currently and one of them, TW Graphics 5500 series has some pure pigment colors that are just loaded with pigment and it makes a huge difference.  Costs a little more for sure but probably worth it.

Offline Prosperi-Tees

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2012, 08:48:17 PM »
For the Sericol RFU red that I use you want to be in the 3-4% activator range, if you go over that it wont be as bright, same goes for flourescents.

Offline Itsa Little CrOoked

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2012, 11:58:34 PM »

Offline mjrprint

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Re: Waterbased Ink Systems Comparison
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2012, 02:58:21 PM »
Rutland WB/Discharge stinks. Everyone in the shop was complaining and it made me sick when working with it until I started wearing a respirator. But I think I may be sensitive to it. Might be completely different for you. But it does have a smell to it that is pretty potent.