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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: screenxpress on June 20, 2011, 11:38:09 PM
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For Plastisol (no waterbase or discharge), what emulsion do you like and a quick "why" you stick with it.
I'm trying to decide whether to stay with QTX or not.
TIA.
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Aquasol HVP - high solids, shoots quick, holds great detail, best stencil edge definition I've found.
Kiwo One Coat is nice too and very similar.
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I did not care for QTX I use ITX from Image Technology, for all the same reasons Zoo listed.
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Chromablue.
Quick, high solids, easy to coat, good detail and only $59/galon
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Chromaline CT-R - it's like QTX, Textile PV but higher solid content, shoots in 45 seconds, 45.00 gal. all around win. . .I didn't care for the viscosity of HVP, I may try it again when the price goes up on my CT-R.
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Chromaline CT-R - it's like QTX, Textile PV but higher solid content, shoots in 45 seconds, 45.00 gal. all around win. . .I didn't care for the viscosity of HVP, I may try it again when the price goes up on my CT-R.
Which exposure unit you have to be able to shoot 45 sec? Also, everywhere CT-r is $88, where do you get it for $45? :)
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black lights and I have a source. . .pm sent. . . ;)
I would say I'll call you but I'm not Sam.
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black lights and I have a source. . .pm sent. . . ;)
I would say I'll call you but I'm not Sam.
;)
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I like Chromablue, Kiwo One Coat and Saati PHW Red. Those are all high solids pure photopolymer emulsions. We use the chromablue and Saati right now. The saati is delegated to low mesh screens and building very thick stencils, and the chroma is used on 137 and up with 15-25% eom ratios, depending on mesh count.
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I'm moving from One-Coat to ChromaBlue for standard stuff, and I normally use Ulano LX-680 for simulated process screens. But I got a sample of some Saati emulsion that I'm told is similar to LX-680.
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Currently using Ulano QX-1. Supposed to be a hybrid dual-cure. Shelf life of a pure photopolymer, slower than QTX, but holds good detail, melts off the mesh on reclaiming. Withstands solvent inks (which was why I started using it to begin with) so it's sort of an all-purpose emulsion for me.
I've got some Tubelight TLX or TTX or whatever their house QTX alternative is. Doesn't seem any faster than the QX-1, but it really builds a thick stencil. Fairly cheap. Good for light on dark graphics that don't have halftones. Saati Textil PV was my previous t-shirt favorite, and I think it's better than the Tubelight all 'round.
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I loved textile PV too until the price increase. My cost went up almost 20.00 from what I recall. huge increase. With so many out there, it's so hard to settle on just one. Find a reliable one and then play around.
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I'm moving from One-Coat to ChromaBlue for standard stuff, and I normally use Ulano LX-680 for simulated process screens. But I got a sample of some Saati emulsion that I'm told is similar to LX-680.
I was looking at trying the One Coat. How come you are moving away from it? How does it do for holding detail?
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another Aquasolv HV. I tried two or three others and could not get them to work. All of them would get blown out when pressure washing. I'll need some more tools to figure out what's causing it.
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I'm moving from One-Coat to ChromaBlue for standard stuff, and I normally use Ulano LX-680 for simulated process screens. But I got a sample of some Saati emulsion that I'm told is similar to LX-680.
I was looking at trying the One Coat. How come you are moving away from it? How does it do for holding detail?
Nothing to do with the emulsion, switching because I can't stand the supply company that carries the Kiwo in my area.
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I'm moving from One-Coat to ChromaBlue for standard stuff, and I normally use Ulano LX-680 for simulated process screens. But I got a sample of some Saati emulsion that I'm told is similar to LX-680.
I was looking at trying the One Coat. How come you are moving away from it? How does it do for holding detail?
Nothing to do with the emulsion, switching because I can't stand the supply company that carries the Kiwo in my area.
That's the exact reason why we switched from the one coat back to the chromablue was who we were buying from. I think the 2 emulsions are very similar for us but I think the Kiwo is slightly better in the quality control department from one batch to the next. I buy the chroma from a local supplier that works his butt off for our business and have completely stopped buying from the supplier we used to buy 95% of our stuff from this time last year.
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Chromaline CT-R - it's like QTX, Textile PV but higher solid content, shoots in 45 seconds, 45.00 gal. all around win. . .I didn't care for the viscosity of HVP, I may try it again when the price goes up on my CT-R.
Thanks all for the replies. Looks like i'll be giving the Chromaline a try. It's a helluva lot cheaper than QTX anyway.
Homer....plse shoot me a pm as well.
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I'm moving from One-Coat to ChromaBlue for standard stuff, and I normally use Ulano LX-680 for simulated process screens. But I got a sample of some Saati emulsion that I'm told is similar to LX-680.
I was looking at trying the One Coat. How come you are moving away from it? How does it do for holding detail?
Nothing to do with the emulsion, switching because I can't stand the supply company that carries the Kiwo in my area.
That's the exact reason why we switched from the one coat back to the chromablue was who we were buying from. I think the 2 emulsions are very similar for us but I think the Kiwo is slightly better in the quality control department from one batch to the next. I buy the chroma from a local supplier that works his butt off for our business and have completely stopped buying from the supplier we used to buy 95% of our stuff from this time last year.
Are you moving to RSC from GSG?
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I'm moving from One-Coat to ChromaBlue for standard stuff, and I normally use Ulano LX-680 for simulated process screens. But I got a sample of some Saati emulsion that I'm told is similar to LX-680.
I was looking at trying the One Coat. How come you are moving away from it? How does it do for holding detail?
Nothing to do with the emulsion, switching because I can't stand the supply company that carries the Kiwo in my area.
That's the exact reason why we switched from the one coat back to the chromablue was who we were buying from. I think the 2 emulsions are very similar for us but I think the Kiwo is slightly better in the quality control department from one batch to the next. I buy the chroma from a local supplier that works his butt off for our business and have completely stopped buying from the supplier we used to buy 95% of our stuff from this time last year.
Are you moving to RSC from GSG?
I'm using River City Graphic Supply for everything except the saati phw, which I do buy from Reece. I'm gonna PM you the rest of the info as to not hijack this thread.
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IMS905 Purecoat HV here, an SBQ sold by Nazdar (Ulano product). We add diazo to ours.
I've used Chromablue, it's a fine product but I prefer a sensitizer for everything, I believe CT-R is Chromablue dyed red.
Used One Coat w/diazo for a few years and it was very good.
I tried the Aquasol HV a couple months ago because so many here rave about it, but in the end I like the Purecoat HV the best, and it's the best deal for me as I do most of my supply sales through Nazdar. It's not as fast a pure SBQ because of the diazo, but it is faster than any dual cure I've tried.
I've used a few dual cures too, but I like the speed of an SBQ, and with diazo in it I can run it on everything from thick stencils to sim process.
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I use Aquasol HV (blue). I had no idea you could expose screens so fast. I expose mine on a WorkHorse Photosharp 1000K in 15 - 25 seconds for most meshes. It took a while to figure it out. I have never used a pressure washer to wash out a screen. I wet both sides then let it sit for a minute while I am exposing other screens. Then I wash it out with a flat/fan garden hose attachment. Comes right out and have never lost detail. I even expose CMYK screens at 55 LPI on a 305 in 15 -20 seconds. (I know stencil thickness has a lot to do with it.) I just love this stuff. I think the water resistance properties makes it easier to wash out without losing detail.
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Like Pierre, I always use the pressure washer (Camspray, 3000psi on a fairly wide fan spray) to wash out my stencils. And again, like Pierre, I like how Aquasol takes to this routine over other emulsions I've tried. It just seems to be giving water the middle finger all the time and that's the kind of attitude I like from my stencils. Using the pressure washer isn't really about the pressure (though it is a little bit about that) as the consistency in washout. Aquasol is so on/off that you simply dial it in and go which is a preferable workflow to me- none of this "oh I can pull off this underexposed washout and post expose" biznatch, it's either there or it ain't. Also, knowing we're headed toward using much more discharge and wb inks I figured I might as well get the emulsion up to snuff now.
I do soak all our screens in a dip tank full of water before washout.
Our exposure times with HVP range from 17-11 ltu. Bulb's getting old so each light unit is probably a fairly exaggerated second's worth of time at this point, although I did calibrate to seconds initially with the integrator. That's plenty fast for me, I barely have time to pull film off one screen and dunk it in the tank before the next is ready.
I just hooked up with GSG for our ink supply now that we're using the Wilflex Epic system. I chose them over Midwest, whose more regional, because I've caught Midwest invoicing me at over suggested retail for products and turning tail when confronted about it. I can't think of quicker way for a supplier to piss me off than engaging in that sort of behavior. I'm not going to baby sit my suppliers and check price all the time. Westar, our previous ink supplier is awesome and I'm going to miss their service sorely.
So, in solidarity with not hijacking the thread- You guys that seem to be switching away from GSG, can I get in on some of that PM action? We're shipping just about all of our ink out of Houston so I'd be game to check out suppliers in the area down there. A new thread on regional suppliers might be a good idea too.
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I've been fond of PhotoCure BLU up until recently. It is a little tough to get consistent exposures because my exposure unit isn't too great. I also think it is a little tougher to see through the blue emulsion when trying to line up a job. So I switched to PhotoCure TXR. Haven't tried it yet, but it just came in so I'll give it a try today.
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hmmm, I am on an MSP3140 and my exposure time for the 305's is 1min 20 sec?!?
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5000 w Olec here with a 1230 bulb (generic, not Olec brand). It's still not enough sunshine to expose dual cure quickly.
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hmmm, I am on an MSP3140 and my exposure time for the 305's is 1min 20 sec?!?
Remember that you can't compare your exposure times, even with the same emulsion and same unit, if you aren't coating identically.
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hmmm, I am on an MSP3140 and my exposure time for the 305's is 1min 20 sec?!?
When I first started using Aquasol HV I was burning screens at 45 to a min. That is what I was used to with other emulsions. With this stuff it doesn't need to burn that long to lock in. That’s why I love it so much.
How I coat my screens...
I coat my screens with the sharp side 2/1 (shirt/squeegee). When I coat my screens I always hold it up to the light to make sure I have a consistent clean/smooth coating after a 2/1. A lot of times I will have to redo the coating because of lighter and darker spots when the screen is held up to the light. In this case I start over with another round of 2/1. Then almost always the coverage is nice and consistent.
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hmmm, I am on an MSP3140 and my exposure time for the 305's is 1min 20 sec?!?
When I first started using Aquasol HV I was burning screens at 45 to a min. That is what I was used to with other emulsions. With this stuff it doesn't need to burn that long to lock in. That’s why I love it so much.
How I coat my screens...
I coat my screens with the sharp side 2/1 (shirt/squeegee). When I coat my screens I always hold it up to the light to make sure I have a consistent clean/smooth coating after a 2/1. A lot of times I will have to redo the coating because of lighter and darker spots when the screen is held up to the light. In this case I start over with another round of 2/1. Then almost always the coverage is nice and consistent.
that would explain some of the difference. If I may suggest, check out the article on coating the screens written by Douglas Griger. It's on the home page here.
You are probably laying down about a third of the emulsion we are (2/1 with dull edge to meet the glisten requirements). Even then, I would guess you might be underexposed. 'can't really say without checking it out though . . .
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5000 w Olec here with a 1230 bulb (generic, not Olec brand). It's still not enough sunshine to expose dual cure quickly.
5kW is four time what I have so that makes sense. Cool!
One day I will grow up and get me a real light!
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I use Ulano 925 WR CL. I like it because it is slow and that makes it monkey resistant.
Actually I'm really not in that big of a hurry to bang screens out.... most of the time. I don't do 900 screens a week.
The edges & dots are very good and it works well in our climate.
I use a Nu Arc 3140 and or that big exposure unit in the sky 8)
It also works well on short (2-300 or so pieces) waterbase and discharge runs that we do a little of.
works for me :)
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hmmm, I am on an MSP3140 and my exposure time for the 305's is 1min 20 sec?!?
When I first started using Aquasol HV I was burning screens at 45 to a min. That is what I was used to with other emulsions. With this stuff it doesn't need to burn that long to lock in. That’s why I love it so much.
How I coat my screens...
I coat my screens with the sharp side 2/1 (shirt/squeegee). When I coat my screens I always hold it up to the light to make sure I have a consistent clean/smooth coating after a 2/1. A lot of times I will have to redo the coating because of lighter and darker spots when the screen is held up to the light. In this case I start over with another round of 2/1. Then almost always the coverage is nice and consistent.
that would explain some of the difference. If I may suggest, check out the article on coating the screens written by Douglas Griger. It's on the home page here.
You are probably laying down about a third of the emulsion we are (2/1 with dull edge to meet the glisten requirements). Even then, I would guess you might be underexposed. 'can't really say without checking it out though . . .
Pierre,
I am not sure I would want more stencil thickness then I am getting. I know the glisten method. I took a class on it in Long Beach. I can always feel the edge of the emulsion on the screen. I don't have any way of measuring it but here is a picture so you can see what I am talking about. I have tried to do screens with the round edge. It is just to much emulsion. Maybe if i was doing athletic numbers it would be good. One thing I do is keep my emulsion in the refrigerator. I know this makes it a lot thicker. I bet that is playing a part in how much lay down I am getting. I may be wrong. Check out the picture. It’s not the best but it may show something.
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Nothing to do with the emulsion, switching because I can't stand the supply company that carries the Kiwo in my area.
Let me guess.. It's midwest sign.
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A lot of people have been talking thicknesses of their coating. It was driving me batty not knowing my actual EOM. We bought one of these guys http://highlinemeter.com/ (http://highlinemeter.com/) HighLine Meter II Paint Thickness Gauge.
It's awesome. Measures in mils and microns. I check my coating every few weeks to make sure i'm being consistent.
It's also cool to test ink thickness on a shirt once you've printed and dried it.
It was an expensive gadget.. But i'm super super happy that we bought it and use it all the time.
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A lot of people have been talking thicknesses of their coating. It was driving me batty not knowing my actual EOM. We bought one of these guys [url]http://highlinemeter.com/[/url] ([url]http://highlinemeter.com/[/url]) HighLine Meter II Paint Thickness Gauge.
It's awesome. Measures in mils and microns. I check my coating every few weeks to make sure i'm being consistent.
It's also cool to test ink thickness on a shirt once you've printed and dried it.
It was an expensive gadget.. But i'm super super happy that we bought it and use it all the time.
I'm constantly using our thickness gauge for things around here. I'm always measuring ink deposits and stencil thicknesses. Good to see other screen print geeks measuring things and acting like we're in science class.