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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: screenxpress on September 21, 2017, 05:40:16 PM
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I just recently tried Ryonet Plasticharge mixed with Union Maxopake Golden Yellow and was highly pleased with the result.
However, using just water for cleanup did not get everything completely off the screen, but I let it dry.
The screen image is now partially clogged and even using press wash offers not much improvement. I then tried Camie screen opener and it started removing the shirt side emulsion. Perhaps Camie is too strong for Cryocoat. I do have Sprayway screen opener.
I think I screwed up thinking the ink changed to a hybrid water base and used water for press wash cleanup.
Am I correct?
If so, please try to let me down gently. :)
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I think I screwed up thinking the ink changed to a hybrid water base and used water for press wash cleanup.
Plasticharge doesn't change the ink to a water base, it's still plastisol, you should still use a solvent for cleaning the ink the same you would any plastisol.
I would soak it in a dip tank if you have one and reclaim the screen and start over.
But in the future to clean just use a solvent, not water.
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Interestingly though, the instructions say that water can be used to thin it.
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I think I screwed up thinking the ink changed to a hybrid water base and used water for press wash cleanup.
Plasticharge doesn't change the ink to a water base, it's still plastisol, you should still use a solvent for cleaning the ink the same you would any plastisol.
I would soak it in a dip tank if you have one and reclaim the screen and start over.
But in the future to clean just use a solvent, not water.
Thanks for clearing that up. What I think messed me up was a number of years back (probably over 6) I had tried some Union Plasticharge and added an Ultrasoft color to it and the print turned out crappy (now I know was not enough pigment). Their instructions at the time, as I remember, said water was cheanup once they were mixed. I remember using water back then and it did clean up the screen. I'm guessing the newer formulas do not support that. Or the Ultrasoft was so low in pigment it let me get away with it. I won't do that again.
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The Wilflex Oasis NF Plascharge says to clean up with tap water and Wilflex screen wash.
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Interesting.
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We use Union's Plasticharge, sporadically, and we only clean it up with water, we do use the pressure washer judiciously to do it.
Steve
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The word Plasticharge should have giving you a clue ;)
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We use Union's Plasticharge, sporadically, and we only clean it up with water, we do use the pressure washer judiciously to do it.
Steve
Steve, when you do use Union's Plasticharge, what ink are you mixing with it? Maxopake/Mixopake or?
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We use Union's Plasticharge, sporadically, and we only clean it up with water, we do use the pressure washer judiciously to do it.
Steve
Steve, when you do use Union's Plasticharge, what ink are you mixing with it? Maxopake/Mixopake or?
Not Steve, but I think that the Union only comes as white, while the Oasis Plascharge from Wilflex is available as a base.
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Andy,
I had a gallon of clear Union Plasticharge for mixing with Plastisol that was so old I disposed of it about 3 weeks ago. Looking back, that might have been stupid. It might have still been good. I should have tested. Oh well.
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Andy,
I had a gallon of clear Union Plasticharge for mixing with Plastisol that was so old I disposed of it about 3 weeks ago. Looking back, that might have been stupid. It might have still been good. I should have tested. Oh well.
My Oasis tech sheet says to use within a year, but who knows?
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While we're on the topic of Plasticharge, might I ask another question: How does the odor compare to regular discharge? I've yet to try plasticharge, as DC didn't work we'll for the level of ventilation I [don't] have in my shop.
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We use Union's Plasticharge, sporadically, and we only clean it up with water, we do use the pressure washer judiciously to do it.
Steve
Steve, when you do use Union's Plasticharge, what ink are you mixing with it? Maxopake/Mixopake or?
Maxopaque, we've used that system for years, but again, our use of it is sporadic at best. But as far as cleaning, it comes right off the press and into the sink in the screen room, which has a filtration unit so the solids don't go downstream. Water alone does it for us...
steve
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While we're on the topic of Plasticharge, might I ask another question: How does the odor compare to regular discharge? I've yet to try plasticharge, as DC didn't work we'll for the level of ventilation I [don't] have in my shop.
I can only answer to the Wilflex Oasis NF in which the NF stands for non-formaldehyde, so avoids the main smelly component (while printing, at least. I seem to remember that the mixed ink itself had a funny smell)
http://www.kiwo.com.au/media/uploads/files/TDS_Oasis_NF_Plascharge-102.pdf (http://www.kiwo.com.au/media/uploads/files/TDS_Oasis_NF_Plascharge-102.pdf)
The Union apparently uses ZFS activator in which the "F" stands for the smelly culprit.
I have no idea who makes the base and discharge agent Ryonet sells, so have no idea which way they swing. Couldn't find the tech sheet on their site either, but I don't go there often, and may just not know how to navigate to that info.
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While we're on the topic of Plasticharge, might I ask another question: How does the odor compare to regular discharge? I've yet to try plasticharge, as DC didn't work we'll for the level of ventilation I [don't] have in my shop.
The Ryocharge uses ZFS and even though I do not have a forced air dryer, I had my wife come out and sniff around while I was curing and she (very very sensitive nose) did not detect any offensive odor.
What I do have is a shroud that goes over the top and hangs over all the sides of the dryer to capture any wafting heat and odors which are pulled by a small tunnel fan (flex tubing) to the outside. That may have done the trick, dunno. Pic below of the dryer with the shroud.
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We use Union's Plasticharge, sporadically, and we only clean it up with water, we do use the pressure washer judiciously to do it.
Steve
Steve, when you do use Union's Plasticharge, what ink are you mixing with it? Maxopake/Mixopake or?
Maxopaque, we've used that system for years, but again, our use of it is sporadic at best. But as far as cleaning, it comes right off the press and into the sink in the screen room, which has a filtration unit so the solids don't go downstream. Water alone does it for us...
steve
Thanks. I know Maxopake has a high pigment load which is probably why it worked with the Ryocharge. Evidently though, after talking to their tech yesterday, water cannot be used for a press wash for theirs. Next time I try one, I'll see if the regular press wash cleans up for me.
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I've used Virus discharge and Plasticharge. I use the latter semi-regularily and don't find it that smelly nat all. Virus was more odorous.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks for the input on odor.
@Frog: Thanks for the PDF. I was unaware that Wilflex offered a non-formaldehyde formula.
@screenxpress: I've see pics of your dryer shroud before. I intend to make one much like it as soon as I can find the time. I need to trap & vent heat as much as fumes at this point!
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@screenxpress: I've see pics of your dryer shroud before. I intend to make one much like it as soon as I can find the time. I need to trap & vent heat as much as fumes at this point!
Attached is a diagram showing the basic assembly and parts. I think it only took about an hour to assemble it. It took additional time to set the hood in place and finish making all the connections.
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I've used union's plasticharge a bit and what I've done is a 30/70 mix using more ink than plasticharge to get a nicer color and this is using union's ultrasoft inks, so I'm thinking that using a heavier pigment ink you might go 45/55 with 45 being you ink load.
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I've used union's plasticharge a bit and what I've done is a 30/70 mix using more ink than plasticharge to get a nicer color and this is using union's ultrasoft inks, so I'm thinking that using a heavier pigment ink you might go 45/55 with 45 being you ink load.
Fantastic! Probably 95% of my ink containers are Union Ultrasoft and there are a lot of them. I was afraid they would be useless for Discharge.
I have notes from some of the other printers, not using Ultrasoft, that they are using 60% ink/40% discharge.
Thanks for the information.
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They are using 60% ink/40% discharge.
That is correct, you don't have to use 50/50. I however think you would be more successful just printing a discharge under base (can be plasticharge base) and then regular plastisols on top.
With both water base and plasticharge there is often a pretty significant color shift, so dialing in colors is much more difficult than doing a discharge underbase and plastisol on top, the end product will have a bit more hand, but better wash fastness and color vibrancy, and it's a hell of a lot easier to print.
Not to take away from direct discharge and plasticharge prints, as if you can master it you'll get great prints that last a long time, but the easier route is to just do a discharge underbase and even a soft hand plastisol on top or mesh up for a thinner deposit.
I posted this in another thread, it's an 12 color print, discharge under base with plastisol on top, which still had some color shifting from printing on top of discharge, and much easier than doing a 11 color discharge print as we printed 1500 of them.
(https://i.imgur.com/hyd6DKE.jpg)
I always had a ton of fun playing with the inks though, so if you can experiment go for it, but discharge under base with plastisol on top is a great end product and much easier to achieve and duplicate for future orders.
Still cure the crap out of it though as if you don't the ink can just fall off the base, but same with discharge if you don't cure it can fade super bad after first wash.
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Thanks Zane. I'm wondering something and it's something from a post I asked about over a week back. I had this job that was a halftone underbase and two top colors, both solid colors on Gildan Black. I know I received an answer that if I was going to do that job with a discharge base, the underbase screen would be 100% image, not the 60% I currently have.
For a test run, what do you think the outcome "might" be if I tried using the 60% halftone screen with clear discharge (not 100%) and printed the two top colors with the Union Ultrasoft inks? Is there enough there for the clear discharge to take a bite or will it just come out splotchy? Job won't be reprinted so was trying to avoid exposing another screen just for a test run.
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@screenxpress: I've see pics of your dryer shroud before. I intend to make one much like it as soon as I can find the time. I need to trap & vent heat as much as fumes at this point!
Attached is a diagram showing the basic assembly and parts. I think it only took about an hour to assemble it. It took additional time to set the hood in place and finish making all the connections.
Thanks!
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For a test run, what do you think the outcome "might" be if I tried using the 60% halftone screen with clear discharge (not 100%) and printed the two top colors with the Union Ultrasoft inks? Is there enough there for the clear discharge to take a bite or will it just come out splotchy?
I would give it a shot, nothing to lose really. If the 60% base was good enough with plastisol then it should give similar results although a bit dimmer with discharge as you won't get the dot gain you would with plastisol. I would really try to saturate the shirt to get as much base down as possible to give a good layer for the top colors to go down on, even with the halftones.
We do halftone bases with discharge all the time, but more for sim process than spot colors.
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All wet on wet?
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All wet on wet?
We always flash the under base as much as possible. I know some people claim they get away with all wet, but in that case we would get blurry edges.
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Thanks, that was what I wanted to know. Off to press, lol.
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Mixed results. More testing needed, lol.
On the flash on the clear discharge base....Long or short?
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Short..........just steam it off
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Short..........just steam it off
Thanks
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We use Union's Plasticharge, sporadically, and we only clean it up with water, we do use the pressure washer judiciously to do it.
Steve
Steve, when you do use Union's Plasticharge, what ink are you mixing with it? Maxopake/Mixopake or?
Not Steve, but I think that the Union only comes as white, while the Oasis Plascharge from Wilflex is available as a base.
They have the premixed white, needing the ZFS, and a base to mix colors into...
Steve
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We use Union's Plasticharge, sporadically, and we only clean it up with water, we do use the pressure washer judiciously to do it.
Steve
Steve, when you do use Union's Plasticharge, what ink are you mixing with it? Maxopake/Mixopake or?
Not Steve, but I think that the Union only comes as white, while the Oasis Plascharge from Wilflex is available as a base.
They have the premixed white, needing the ZFS, and a base to mix colors into...
Steve
I hope that that's still correct but all I find on the site now is this
https://www.unionink.com/product-selector/?chemistry%5B%5D=5&wpv_view_count=-TCPID40&wpv-product-substrate=cotton (https://www.unionink.com/product-selector/?chemistry%5B%5D=5&wpv_view_count=-TCPID40&wpv-product-substrate=cotton)
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I've used union's plasticharge a bit and what I've done is a 30/70 mix using more ink than plasticharge to get a nicer color and this is using union's ultrasoft inks, so I'm thinking that using a heavier pigment ink you might go 45/55 with 45 being you ink load.
Thanks for this info on using Union Ultrasoft. I just did some testing using Ultrasoft 70/ Ryocharge 30/ Activator 6 and I was really impressed with the results. Washed the shirts, image stayed and they have a soft feel. Probably not as soft as waterbase, but way softer than straight plastisol. Thumbs Up.
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For a test run, what do you think the outcome "might" be if I tried using the 60% halftone screen with clear discharge (not 100%) and printed the two top colors with the Union Ultrasoft inks? Is there enough there for the clear discharge to take a bite or will it just come out splotchy?
I would give it a shot, nothing to lose really. If the 60% base was good enough with plastisol then it should give similar results although a bit dimmer with discharge as you won't get the dot gain you would with plastisol. I would really try to saturate the shirt to get as much base down as possible to give a good layer for the top colors to go down on, even with the halftones.
We do halftone bases with discharge all the time, but more for sim process than spot colors.
Zane,
I gave it a try as Test #1 - Clear Discharge for UB and top coats of Union Ultrasoft. Then I tried Test #2 without any UB, just mixed 70/30 Ultrasoft with 30 Ryocharge. I liked Test #2 best, at least for this set of screens. I'll keep Discharge UB under consideration for another job down the line. Thanks.