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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: jvanick on June 09, 2016, 10:10:21 AM
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we've started doing a bunch of 1-2 color work here, and are in need of a faster small-form factor press...
our sportsman is running at full speed 900-948/hr, and we feel that with faster inks (like Joe Clarke's Synergy series), that the index speed is actually what's slowing us down - especially for easy loading stuff lke bags, and one color stuff.
What I'd love is a 6 or 8 color Gauntlet 3 or Challenger 3D, but they don't offer anything like that.
so with that being the case, what other suggestions does every body have?
(I've thought about maybe an oval running with 2 crews on it, but that seems problematic, and doesn't really fix my problem).
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MHM E-type dry cycles at 1400+. We regularly pass the 1k speeds, but I can't see you gaining much by going higher than 948. The jobs that can benefit from those are few and far between (maybe two-three a week for us). Setup times are much, much bigger factor for us.
pierre
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MHM E-type dry cycles at 1400+. We regularly pass the 1k speeds, but I can't see you gaining much by going higher than 948. The jobs that can benefit from those are few and far between (maybe two-three a week for us). Setup times are much, much bigger factor for us.
pierre
this week we're printing 12k imprints, one order, followed by nearly 4k, same deal... each of these are 1 color imprints
next week, 16k imprints... 1 order, 1 color canvas bags... SUPER easy to load.
if this continues, I want to figure out the 'right' way to run these orders, and in my mind a SMALL but VERY fast auto is what it will take.
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TOTALLY with you on this!!!! This is one of the reasons we were going to keep our red press. Basic 1 or 2 color jobs, small footprint, knock them out fast. After switching to Roq it did not make as much sense because things wouldn't be interchangeable. I had a hair brain plan for a BASIC very small footprint press with only 3-4 colors and a 12*12 imprint area. Key would be keeping the price cheap.
Before we ended up getting our used YOU we had talked to Roq about making us a smaller version ECO with only 6 colors. They heed and hawwed(not something they have in their line up) but said it could be done.
Have you asked M&R if they would make a custom one? I would imagine it would add to your turn time because it is not "standard", but one would think moding a press is not out of their wheelhouse...
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yes, that does take the setup times out of the equation. I still think that if you can go at 950, there is not going to be much of a difference in the long run. Loading 4K pieces, or even worse, 16K pieces at over 1K per hour is just too draining physically. When we have long runs, we are netting 500 per hour and that's requiring some effort (both logistics and performance).
pierre
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also, for something like that, you might want to consider double index. You'd need more operators, but for the bigger, simpler jobs you could double your production rate.
pierre
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They do have the Roq You 4 color 8 station for around 30K
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also, for something like that, you might want to consider double index. You'd need more operators, but for the bigger, simpler jobs you could double your production rate.
pierre
so you're thinking something like loading in the first '2' stations, and maybe 1 puller?
Hmm...
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They do have the Roq You 4 color 8 station for around 30K
Yes, but that is made off the standard YOU P08M base. So same outside measurements. I wanted a smaller diameter, which can be found in their Nano, but I wanted the ECO indexing system for the speed.
Think Jason may be on to something here...
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we've started doing a bunch of 1-2 color work here, and are in need of a faster small-form factor press...
our sportsman is running at full speed 900-948/hr, and we feel that with faster inks (like Joe Clarke's Synergy series), that the index speed is actually what's slowing us down - especially for easy loading stuff lke bags, and one color stuff.
What I'd love is a 6 or 8 color Gauntlet 3 or Challenger 3D, but they don't offer anything like that.
so with that being the case, what other suggestions does every body have?
(I've thought about maybe an oval running with 2 crews on it, but that seems problematic, and doesn't really fix my problem).
Tell us how fast you want and size of impressions and see if we cant do it!!
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we've started doing a bunch of 1-2 color work here, and are in need of a faster small-form factor press...
our sportsman is running at full speed 900-948/hr, and we feel that with faster inks (like Joe Clarke's Synergy series), that the index speed is actually what's slowing us down - especially for easy loading stuff lke bags, and one color stuff.
What I'd love is a 6 or 8 color Gauntlet 3 or Challenger 3D, but they don't offer anything like that.
so with that being the case, what other suggestions does every body have?
(I've thought about maybe an oval running with 2 crews on it, but that seems problematic, and doesn't really fix my problem).
Tell us how fast you want and size of impressions and see if we cant do it!!
Something told me Rich would step up to the plate on something like this! ;)
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Tell us how fast you want and size of impressions and see if we cant do it!!
this work keeps coming as it seems to be, and I'll be in touch...
unlike Alex's 12" requirement, I'm fine with standard 16x18 or 20x20 print size... I just want a 6 or 8 color with the advanced indexing and print technology of the bigger presses.
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also, for something like that, you might want to consider double index. You'd need more operators, but for the bigger, simpler jobs you could double your production rate.
pierre
That's interesting, but I can't see how we do that on our Synchro S. Years ago when we ran a Precision Oval, 2 up was damn fast, but there we 4 open stations and 4 heads...
Steve
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Tell us how fast you want and size of impressions and see if we cant do it!!
this work keeps coming as it seems to be, and I'll be in touch...
unlike Alex's 12" requirement, I'm fine with standard 16x18 or 20x20 print size... I just want a 6 or 8 color with the advanced indexing and print technology of the bigger presses.
Your press can be sped up as well if you would like.
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Your press can be sped up as well if you would like.
Something secret that I'm missing??? if I can eek out another 100/hr we'd be happy for now... I was under the impression that 900-950/hr was max for our sporty?
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Bigger/stronger index motor would take care of that, I would think.
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Your press can be sped up as well if you would like.
Something secret that I'm missing??? if I can eek out another 100/hr we'd be happy for now... I was under the impression that 900-950/hr was max for our sporty?
the machine is set at 900 per hr as its rated cycle. There is a lot more speed as we build with a 25% safety factor on the components. Another 100 per hr is pretty easy.
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The stock setup for a sporty is a bit slow imho. I worked with our tech to speed it up in a couple ways from his initial settings and ours eclipses 1k with no issue. With my best puller I can run it at 1020/hr for smaller stretches of time, the limitation
Still, I think a low color, rippin' fast side auto is a great idea. It's what I'm looking at to replace our old gauntlet, pretty much exactly what Alex wanted form s.roque but, like him, no confirmation yet on the ability to build a small footprint eco that can accept standard screens. Due to space limitations that would be our ideal setup- one low color, speedy little press under 11' diameter and then a large main press.
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The stock setup for a sporty is a bit slow imho. I worked with our tech to speed it up in a couple ways from his initial settings and ours eclipses 1k with no issue. With my best puller I can run it at 1020/hr for smaller stretches of time, the limitation
Still, I think a low color, rippin' fast side auto is a great idea. It's what I'm looking at to replace our old gauntlet, pretty much exactly what Alex wanted form s.roque but, like him, no confirmation yet on the ability to build a small footprint eco that can accept standard screens. Due to space limitations that would be our ideal setup- one low color, speedy little press under 11' diameter and then a large main press.
Doesn't danny have one?
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We have a small 3 color YOU with the indexing speed tuned up some on it....... I know we had a job on it 2 weeks ago we ran at almost 1150 pcs per hour with 2 people on the press.... Just a single color print
Like M&R Roq will build you something custom to fit what your trying to do. Your going to probably pay a bit more but they will do pretty much anything requested.
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, no confirmation yet on the ability to build a small footprint eco that can accept standard screens. Due to space limitations that would be our ideal setup- one low color, speedy little press under 11' diameter and then a large main press.
Oh they'll do it, they confirmed it. They actually use to offer it standard. Basically a ECO "L". The deal just came up on the YOU I couldn't pass up.
I think it may be their German distributor that had a outdated website and had the size specs.
They said the reason they stopped offering them was when the YOU("Basic" at that time) came out and was able to provide the lion's share of the options that the ECO offered at a lower cost, there was very little reason to still offer the ECO in a smaller format. Especially when your factory is tooled up/set up for a more popular size/modle. Guessing that is why you don't see a 6 color small footprint CHIIID on the M&R page. Demand.
We have a small 3 color YOU with the indexing speed tuned up some on it.......
How did you tune or tweak the speed on it? I would LOVE to bump ours up a bit!!
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just wanted to publicly say thank you to Rich, Mike and Alfonso from M&R for seeing what they could do to increase our press speed. While we're still limited by the indexer, Alfonso came out this morning and confirmed that the press is running as good as it can and did a bit of tweaking to smooth out the table up/down actions.
The press ops are cruising along back there at 924/hr right now, which while not as fast as a G3 or CH3D, it'll help us get to a new faster press sooner than later...
The faster and smoother up/down speed of the table seems to be making them load more consistently too, as I'm not hearing any stops while they're working.
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Even if I get 924 / hr out of my guys on my CHIIID Im happy!
Good work!
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Jeez, I'm still trying to get my crew to print at any speed without stopping every 3 shirts, congrats!
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Jeez, I'm still trying to get my crew to print at any speed without stopping every 3 shirts, congrats!
preach it baby, preach
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Jeez, I'm still trying to get my crew to print at any speed without stopping every 3 shirts, congrats!
this is the 'slow down to go faster' -- if you're missing that fast, take the index back.
This was on bella flowy tanks..
924/hr:
https://youtu.be/ztsIYlS4i9g (https://youtu.be/ztsIYlS4i9g)
Alfonso came back and just did a bit more tweaking and we are now at 81 doz/hr, which now truly seems to be as fast as the press will run.
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What gives man!? No special thanks to me?? I was EMOTIONALLY there with you :P
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2 shop dogs running around nice.
We have 3 but keep them in 'dog city'. They are too big and dumb to be allowed around anything...
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Jeez, I'm still trying to get my crew to print at any speed without stopping every 3 shirts, congrats!
this is the 'slow down to go faster' -- if you're missing that fast, take the index back.
This was on bella flowy tanks..
924/hr:
https://youtu.be/ztsIYlS4i9g (https://youtu.be/ztsIYlS4i9g)
Alfonso came back and just did a bit more tweaking and we are now at 81 doz/hr, which now truly seems to be as fast as the press will run.
Yeah, they've all worked on press with me loading faster than that for hours at a time and I've shown them videos, etc....doesn't seem to be clicking. Reprinting another 300pc order that over half were thrown crooked on next week....
I do tell 'em that slower but steady is much faster than faster but intermittent and that's helped a touch. The graph that M&R has on the Sportsman's software is super helpful for this, you can show them what a normal print run should look like and they can view it to get feedback.
Your EX will go faster than 81doz. open up the bottom and adjust the table drop until it is as fast as it can drop without "thunking" too hard and creating wear on the machine. I'm sure the M&R dudes did this but you can also dial in the servo adjusments and then increase the table up.