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screen printing => Equipment => DIY - From master engineered marvels to cobbled together jury-rigged or Jerry-built junk! => Topic started by: paradoxsc on July 19, 2017, 04:10:13 PM
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***DON'T KNOW WHY, BUT PICS ARE NOT LOADING - RIGHT CLICK>OPEN IN NEW WINDOW TO SEE***
I am lucky enough to have access to aluminum in huge quantities and a fabrication shop with the ability to route it out to any shape easily.
1)Order aluminum sheets for routing. They need to be dead a$$ flat so be sure to check before accepting the shipment.
- 0.25 (pallet)
- 0.080 (jig)
I am actually using leftover drops (cut piece sheets) that the fabrication shop next door was kind enough to sell me at a discount.
2) Order springs. McMaster-Carr has them for a couple bucks each. Not sure what the real ones M&R uses are though.
3)Create vector files for router (the router uses another program to output)
(http://imgur.com/DyhL8ku)
(http://imgur.com/04h6bit)
4)Load and route the aluminum. Here is the finished result.
(http://imgur.com/LksM9mO)
(http://imgur.com/E9BRnoO)
So far so good, but I really have not gotten to the tricky part. Attaching the stops/springs and mounting the bracket to the pallet jig.
Next step: Order pin-bar, carrier sheets, and pallet attachment from M&R. So far I'm in it for about $200.00 after all the other stuff i'll be at around 450-500. Only time will tell what the final cost will be. Time is one thing to consider. Another is accuracy. Paying a little extra for piece of mind for the real deal could be worth it to some folks.
Issues So Far:
-The light table/exposure Jig will need to be re-cut. The pinbar area with the cutout should be on the other side. Also the real triloc has a slight cut-in on the bottom as well, so I will have to redo my vector file and re-route it. Luckily 0.080" is much cheaper than .25"
That's as far as I have gotten so far. I will update with more pictures/steps when I get more done with it. No time right now.
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Looks awesome! Great work.
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If you are building a better mouse trap I say go for it. If you are simply copying the current version there are plenty slightly used ones in the marketplace that you could grab for an affordable price that are tried and true.
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Hey Austin! I did see this the other day. it looks fantastic. Busy season here so not much time. Can't wait to see how this turns out for you. My advice, skip the pin bar / carrier sheets etc and build a FPU / light table jig for your screens. That way you tape the films directly onto the screens in registration rather than dealing with the carrier sheets. The work on this will pay off very quickly. Glad to see it coming along. Make sure to post pics as you progress!
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Hey Austin! I did see this the other day. it looks fantastic. Busy season here so not much time. Can't wait to see how this turns out for you. My advice, skip the pin bar / carrier sheets etc and build a FPU / light table jig for your screens. That way you tape the films directly onto the screens in registration rather than dealing with the carrier sheets. The work on this will pay off very quickly. Glad to see it coming along. Make sure to post pics as you progress!
I might just make both and see which works better for me. The only thing I am worried about with the inverted FPU is the lighting. I can put in basic LED's but will they expose my screen when i'm trying to line up the films? How did you handle this with yours? I have access to clear acrylic and lexan for a light cover but don't know if they block UV's.
Also, I'm thinking about TIG welding my stops and springs to the jigs but i'm worried about the heat warping the metal do you have a better way to attach stuff so it wont move? I can use the same pallet adhesive/primer combo that m&r uses to put the bracket rails on the pallets but i'm worried about play.
Also attached a pic of the routed metal. Don't mind the onesie platens...Nothing to see here...Move along.
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if it's aluminum you can braze them together. I've done it a few times. Works great, just practice on some scrap, thinner aluminum like our frames tend to melt quickly.
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Definitely go with the inverted triloc FPU instead of the carrier sheets. Faster and more precise in my opinion. Less opportunity for things to shift around since the films are aligned to a static position on the FPU and taped directly to the screen. I have a small flo bulb under 2 layers of plexi on mine. No issues with screens exposing. The plexi blocks a ton of UV and the bulb isnt designed with UV output in mind so it sucks for exposure anyway. The screen is also only on the FPU for maybe 10 or 15 seconds at a time. I rarely use micros with my DIY setup, maybe 1 in 10 jobs require an adjustment, and most of those are due to me fudging with off contact to account for squeegee pressure and screen tension variances, not because the films were aligned incorrectly.
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Brazing would work for sure. There is also a product out there called allumiweld that is supposed to work well. I didnt want to mess around with introducing heat to it, so I just drilled / tapped / countersunk everything. Just use good titanium coated taps / countersinks and really scribe / measure everything out exactly.
The spring stops have a surprising amount of force behind them, I had to oval the holes a bit on mine because of mismeasurment. I also had to use spacers to get the height correct.
If you're on an early gauntlet like mine (which i think you are), you will fight the front frame holder flex. We have found that if you unlock the micros between setups and push the frame forward towards the center of the press it will "reset" and the pre reg will be pretty close to dead on. But the flex does really eff with things. In either case, we are still running 5-10 multi color setups on it each day, which would be impossible without pre reg.
On the lighting, Mimosatexas is right on this one. We just took a low wattage, low profile LED strip from lowes and placed it in the back. It hasn't messed with our exposure times at all, and we have been fine with it. Normally we don't have a screen on there for any more than a few 20 seconds or so, but we have left a screen or two the FPU for maybe 30 minutes once with the backlight on and it still exposed without issue.
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Brazing would work for sure. There is also a product out there called allumiweld that is supposed to work well. I didnt want to mess around with introducing heat to it, so I just drilled / tapped / countersunk everything. Just use good titanium coated taps / countersinks and really scribe / measure everything out exactly.
The spring stops have a surprising amount of force behind them, I had to oval the holes a bit on mine because of mismeasurment. I also had to use spacers to get the height correct.
If you're on an early gauntlet like mine (which i think you are), you will fight the front frame holder flex. We have found that if you unlock the micros between setups and push the frame forward towards the center of the press it will "reset" and the pre reg will be pretty close to dead on. But the flex does really eff with things. In either case, we are still running 5-10 multi color setups on it each day, which would be impossible without pre reg.
On the lighting, Mimosatexas is right on this one. We just took a low wattage, low profile LED strip from lowes and placed it in the back. It hasn't messed with our exposure times at all, and we have been fine with it. Normally we don't have a screen on there for any more than a few 20 seconds or so, but we have left a screen or two the FPU for maybe 30 minutes once with the backlight on and it still exposed without issue.
Whelp, its back to the drawing board. I decided to go FPU after all. I also figured out that I can use the routers drilling capabilities to go ahead and make the holes for the stops, and the stops themselves, this should make this build more accurate. Luckily I bought extra .25" aluminum and have enough to do a new set without spending any more money. It's going to get cut next week so i'll post pictures of the final. Here is a picture of the template.
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UPDATE:
Finally The pieces got cut for the FPU version!!!
The idea here is that by having the router drill the holes that the stop blocks will perfectly match on either unit. Laid on top of one another the jigs both line up great. I am going to tap the holes so that I can bolt the stops on and I am also going to countersink them so the bolts lay flat. The FPU itself will have to have a box built for the lighting and registration film. I'm going to copy what Aarontownsend did with his here. It might look funky to some of you, but this unit will be made specifically for my guantlet S so I am building it to match the print area available on that specific machine.
I also recently bought a real trilock exposure unit jig(eBay $290) and an extra pin-bar($49 Thames Burton) for the light table so I can have a backup in case this idea fails. I will simply measure the blocks on the real trilock and attach some to the first pallet jig I had cut originally so that they match.
I think I'm going to build both systems regardless, just to see which I prefer. I have a hunch that the FPU is going to win that battle. I'll let you guys know when I have more progress to report.
See the pictures attached:
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UPDATE: ADDED STOPS
I had to re-drill the 1/4" holes because I wanted something a little more beefy with more thread bite so I could torque it down really good. I used a drill press and kept the jigs level and clamped the entire time so I would not oval any holes. Also had to sand all of the marred edges, do this very lightly.
I ended up tapping it for 5/16-24 bolts. I bought 3/4" thread length bolts so they would not stick out of the bottoms of the jigs. (Not crazy about the bolt heads sticking out but it will work just fine) I tapped directly into the jigs and not at all on the stops. The logic here is sort of like calibrating the registration bearings on a press. You can loosen the bolts and ever so slightly shift the block if an adjustment is ever required.
I used a screen frame and got it where I wanted it on the FPU jig with the blocks on but not fully torqued down. When I had the screen touching all the stops without any gap I clamped the screen frame with constant force(not too hard) on the stops then, I torqued down the top short block then followed with the longest one near the bottom and finally, the middle block. I did the exact same thing with the other jig and was sure to use the same side & corner of the frame to match.
When I had everything locked down I laid a screen in the FPU jig against the blocks and put the pallet jig on top upside down. I did some measurements to be sure everything was in line. So far so good....
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....more pics
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I also added the spring stops to the FPU jig as well. Tapped the holes with a 1/4"-20 tap. Drilled them with a 13/64" bit.
These I was really sloppy with, they are not precision parts to this build so I just placed them against the frame on the jig, quickly drew a line on the backside, took the frame out, measured in 1/8th" redrew the lines, drilled/tapped and done.
Once they were attached, I popped a screen frame in and did some more measuring to be sure and it all lines up!
Next step is attaching the pallet bracket, which I just ordered from M&R for $46 for a tiny piece of aluminum.
PS: If anyone has a cheaper source let me know! Its an aluminum extruded hat channel and that's all I know(see pic), I do know it's available because there are certain individuals who have 12ft sticks of it. I checked the eastern metal supply catalog and couldn't find it. Maybe I'll give those guys a call.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4383/36434865833_17ecf700ba.jpg)
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Another thought,
I am making this thing for statics because that pretty much all we use here, eww lame right?
I do however have some roller frames and just tested this with a 23x31" M3 frame. The stop blocks work perfectly with the roller frame but the springs are not positioned right to hold it firmly.
No big deal to me since we rarely use them. But for someone who is building an FPU for roller frames and using this post as a haphazard guide, use a roller frame to set the springs, you may have to add a shim to make the springs meet the middle of the roller another piece of .25" perhaps, also take into account the groove for the mesh locking strip, if the spring goes in there that could make it loose.
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With smart mesh statics I wouldn't worry about rollers.
Looks fantastic BTW
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dude that is some really nice work, very professional looking job 8)
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Another Update: Added lighting to alignment jig
First I measured the inside of the frame with it on the jig. I made marks for the bolt holes to be drilled. I cut 4 pieces of 1" square aluminum tube (mine was 19.5" x 19") but that is the max print area I can squeeze out of my old gauntlet. My film size is only 13" x 19" so it works fine for me. If you are doing this for another press, plan accordingly.
I drilled and tapped the holes and installed the bar to for my lighting box. I installed a series of non UV mini led panels in a square grid. This kind of led is what sign companies use in side of big lighted road signs. It's what I had available. I tied it all together with wirenuts and drilled a hole at the bottom of the frame for the wiring to escape. It needs to have a 12v powersupply to run so I wired one up for it.
Test the lights before moving forward!!!
Then I cut my plastic sheets down to size. I used 1 white piece of plastic and 2 clear pieces on top of it. I didn't want to deal with countersinking the bolts in the frame/plastic so what I did was just drilled holes in the first sheet of plastic that were larger than the bolt heads that attached the frame to the jig. I taped the plastic down with the same 3M tape that M&R uses for the pallet bracket. It is available at lowes in 1" rolls. The trick with this stuff is the primer (3M 94 primer), its why the tape never fails. Easy.
The plastic I used is called lexan and its some of the strongest stuff out there. I'm sure plexi or acrylic would work fine but lexan was easily accessible to me. I also made a film grid as a master registration guide and taped it waterproof side out on the clear plastic.
PS: I first tried to sandwich the film between the plastic and it came out fuzzy due to the refraction of the light. It works fine right on the outside. Just tape it down good.
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more pics...
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and more..
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It is really bright! I was worried that it might expose screens even though it is supposed to be non UV light, but I tested by leaving a blank screen on for 20 minutes and then taping an image on and exposing it. Washed out with ease and no sign of early exposure.
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This is awesome!!!
Aluminum is a really beautiful metal to work with. That thing is really really sweet. Congrats. Keep this going.
I would consider using thinner lines for the reg marks. We use .5 pt on ours and it seems to work well. I think Alan uses a series of dashes rather than a solid mark. And I have also heard of some using a negative, but I have not tested those. 0.5pt gets us close enough I think. Try each and let me know what works best haha.
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This is awesome!!!
Aluminum is a really beautiful metal to work with. That thing is really really sweet. Congrats. Keep this going.
I would consider using thinner lines for the reg marks. We use .5 pt on ours and it seems to work well. I think Alan uses a series of dashes rather than a solid mark. And I have also heard of some using a negative, but I have not tested those. 0.5pt gets us close enough I think. Try each and let me know what works best haha.
Thanks! I'll try that. I also need to move the center marks in so they are actually in the lighting.
I can never find Alan's old thread about his reg unit but people talk about it all the time. I wish he would chime in here with tips.
Next step is attaching the pallet bracket to the pallet jig. I'm planing to tap the .25" jig and countersink the bracket from the inside and attach from underneath. Any recommendations here? I also have the M&R tape, I ordered it just in case but I am worried about play with tape and don't think I would be comfortable knowing it can ever so slightly flex or shift. Do they use it on the real tri??
Also have to notch out the frame holders so the jig can raise up. That'll be fun.
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As per your request. I made a new film template with .5 reg marks and even added some dashes and dots to try ;D
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I agree with Atownsend. When we used film, the thinner the reg mark you can get by with the better. With Alan's setup, the inverted reg table in combination with the triloc is better because you aren't risking the film shifting while lifting the screen. The only major problem I had was that the epson 7900 we had would print the reg marks off between colors occasionally but I could never figure out how to avoid that. There was a thread on that somewhere here also. You have a nice setup going.
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The only major problem I had was that the epson 7900 we had would print the reg marks off between colors occasionally but I could never figure out how to avoid that. There was a thread on that somewhere here also. You have a nice setup going.
I heard with roll feed printers this is a common problem due to the roll pulling back. I used to use an epson 4800 for films with 17" rolls and noticed this a lot. I read somewhere that you can pull some slack off the roll before printing and that helps.
I switched to epson 1430's that sheet-feed with super B film (13" x 19") and this pretty much went away. I cant recall every having films that were off from print to print with the 1430 as long as the job was printed on the same printer. They are tiny/slow and the max sheet size is only 13"wide, but for my shop they work fine. I suggest getting 2 so you can output multiple jobs at once.
Edit: oops, looks like you went CTS! Sorry didn't catch that.
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I had the film stretch issue last week. Drove me nuts more I got it figured out. It was a new roll of fixxons film. Screens got to press and they would not line up. Checked films, films did not line up. Checked art... no visible issues there. Reprinted films. Films still dont line up.... WTF.
Found out at that accurip has a file that you can print that has measurements which you can use to adjust the feed. Printed the file. Measurements were off from what they were supposed to be. I still couldn't believe that was happening so i printed the films for a 3rd time. Films line up?? whhhaaa? I chalked it up to having a new roll of film that was a little stretchy at the start. I printed the rest of that roll without an issue and have not had an issue since.
Maybe I should reprint that file for feed adjustment. But I keep telling myself if it aint broke dont fix it.
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When we used to gang films, the ones that were horizontal vs ones that were vertical had issues.
Always print them the same orientation, to limit this issue.
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That and if your shop is chilly overnight a cold printer's film won't always line up with a warmed-up printers film. I run a 1 color film or two first to get the printer warmed up if I have tight tolerance jobs to print. It's always good to prefeed as much film off the roll as you'll need if you have a new, heavy roll on there.
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UPDATE!!! Putting this thread back on track!
THE UNIT IS COMPLETE!!!! & It works!
I wired in a switch for the FPU jig. Common to common(white) hot to switch(black) & ground from wall to switch(green) ground from power supply to box(green)
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Update: Added pallet bracket to pallet jig
First I re-drilled & tapped the existing holes on the pallet jig for a 5/16-18 thread bolt. Then I made my marks on the pallet bracket and drilled the holes, I countersunk with a 1/2' countersink bit. I had to oval one or two of the holes because I messed up drilling, still works fine though.
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I had to use a cutting wheel and a grinder to cut down the bolts and grind the metal smooth so it wouldn't hurt the screen.
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Its not pretty but it is functional.
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I also made this stop block for the pallet arm. used 5/16-18 hex bolts on it for easy adjustments
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I did also have to notch the front frame holder. I used a handheld battery operated bandsaw and only had to take about 1/2" x 1/2" out. Took about 3 minutes to do all 6. I almost got away without having to notch at all but it just barely clipped when I tabled up(maybe 1/8").
I WILL BE MAKING AN UNCUT VIDEO OF THE UNIT FROM THE ART ROOM TO THE PRESS to show you guys how it works. Right now I don't have any decent multi color jobs that would prove accuracy. I'm waiting for the next process order to come in so we can see how it works with dots at 45-55 lpi.
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apologies if I missed it, but what was the purpose of this project (really not being sarcastic, I would like to know)?
it DOES look like to me a fun way to spend some time, but what was the reasoning for not simply pick up a used triloc?
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apologies if I missed it, but what was the purpose of this project (really not being sarcastic, I would like to know)?
it DOES look like to me a fun way to spend some time, but what was the reasoning for not simply pick up a used triloc?
From my perspective, still not cheap, not plentiful (which is why they still aren't cheap) and still aren't really right. You end up needing to do some fabricating to make them FPU vs carrier sheet.
Carrier sheets are just the worse idea ever and I am still unsure why M&R hasn't adapted the tri-lock into an FPU option yet.
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I also made this stop block for the pallet arm. used 5/16-18 hex bolts on it for easy adjustments
You should make these look a little sexier and sell them. The stopper blocks are like 80 dollars each if I recall correctly.
You only need one or two tri-loc, but each press needs a stopper block.
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apologies if I missed it, but what was the purpose of this project (really not being sarcastic, I would like to know)?
it DOES look like to me a fun way to spend some time, but what was the reasoning for not simply pick up a used triloc?
A used triloc is going to run $1000 - $1500 or more and are hard to find. I built a better mouse trap for about $500 all in. It took me about 3 days collectively working on it only a few hours each day.
PLUS my unit does not use carrier sheets at all. It has an inverted jig. It's cheaper, more accurate, and has less steps than the original triloc system.
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I also made this stop block for the pallet arm. used 5/16-18 hex bolts on it for easy adjustments
You should make these look a little sexier and sell them. The stopper blocks are like 80 dollars each if I recall correctly.
You only need one or two tri-loc, but each press needs a stopper block.
Yeah, i'm not really looking to get into fabricating and selling equipment. I don't want to compete with the big guys, they would squash me like a bug. I am, however, open to giving instructions to anyone who wants to build one for themselves. I think that stop block took me 10-20 mins to make.
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Did you find a source for the hat extrusion or did you recycle an old one?
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Did you find a source for the hat extrusion or did you recycle an old one?
Nah I bought it from m&r. Bill foust also has it in 12ft rips but he was too busy to chat about pricing and I needed it quick. I'm not sure if the extrusion is proprietary or not so I'm weary about calling an extrusion company and trying to get it made. Plus I think I would have to buy 40000 lbs to be able to get it made.
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You got my approval!
Love me some nice metalworking.
You can get bernzomatic aluminum brazing rods from any Home Depot or lowes. Use map gas and the T400 or T800 torch.
Keep the plans handy.. I may be needing a custom tri loc or 4 in the near future.
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Do you have a master list of all the materials/plans for building one? I have one that I made but this looks like a better piece and I cant justify thousands of dollars to m and r.
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Yeah, i'm not really looking to get into fabricating and selling equipment. I don't want to compete with the big guys, they would squash me like a bug. I am, however, open to giving instructions to anyone who wants to build one for themselves. I think that stop block took me 10-20 mins to make.
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Are the stop blocks on the FPU raised up so that the screens hit the stop blocks at the exact same height when on the FPU and the pallet jig? Couldn't tell from the pics. I made our first modified triloc where the FPU and stop blocks were flat on the table and that wasn't very accurate with roller frames. May be fine with statics. A roller frame has 3 extruding corner notches and having the stop blocks flat on the table causes the "shirt side roller notch" to be touching the stop blocks on the pallet jig on press but the "ink side" notches touching the FPU stop blocks. The roller frame corners are not perfect and I had a lot of micro work until I flipped the M&R FPU unit/master stop block frame upside down and then lifted it up about 1.25-1.5" (can't recall right now) and now we have more accurate setups than a friendly competitors shop that uses CTS and a triloc pallet jig. I spent several years playing around with regi systems and it's the tiny details that made the difference between an accurate system and one I could have had just as accurate if I'd have used 2x4's (yeah, my first one was mostly wooden components, yet it worked better than the Vastex system we bought).
I have to think that if there is any imperfection on the statics that deviate even a few degrees from 90 with the square tubing that you'd have skewed results due to the opposite sides of the frame touching the stop blocks on the FPU versus the pallet jig. Like I said earlier, it's the details that matter. In my opinion, when it comes to the regi system, if it's off more than a hairline then it might as well be an 1/8", it's just as easy for me to dial it in from that distance as it is a hairline with a good micro system like what we have on our G3 and RPM.
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Also, I'm thinking about TIG welding my stops and springs to the jigs but i'm worried about the heat warping the metal do you have a better way to attach stuff so it wont move?
Look for VHB tape made by 3M.
Among other things, it is used to hold aluminum panels on trailers together.
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This is an amazing project, I can worm my way into a friends studio with the same equipment...
Very keen to ditch carriers and go with an FPU for the triloc!
Glad you shared
S
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