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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Homer on February 16, 2024, 06:07:36 PM
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If I was a new guy looking to get into the industry, there's zero chance I'd buy screen printing equipment. Talking to my CCI rep today, it seems many shops are down sizing their fleets of automatics and adding in DTF set ups. Honestly, as technology and print speeds advance, I will be looking to make the switch too, sooner rather than later. Imagine zero screens to make, coat, clean, seps, expensive inks, large expensive presses, 6 employees to operate it all. I remember the DTG movement back at the screenprinters.net days, saying DTG will over rule but I really see this DTF stuff actually taking hold. I understand the look and feel can be rather comparable to a SP as well.....On one hand it's amazing we won't need any of that equipment anymore, but on the other, all those years of knowledge will be almost useless..give it a few years and I think we'll see a giant shift, but that's just me - Thoughts?
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Screen print or bust. I’ll die on that hill. DTF / DTG have their place. But the quality and versatility isn’t there. Anyone serious about their brand is still going to demand screen print. Customers worth having know the difference and care enough to want it.
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As many of you know, I am a big supporter of DTF. However, everything has it's place. I just got a request for 30,000 shirts with a 1 color print (First order this large since before Covid). It's being printed on our screen printing equipment. I don't see anything coming in the near future that would change this. DTF is a great new tool and is the best choice in many cases but not all.
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I welcome the incoming decline on DTF.
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Doing a lot of it here.
Had some trouble getting a heat press with certain members here repainting them and trying to block people from buying directly.
Had some trouble finding a reliable supplier, ended up going overseas for it all. Way better than any domestic shop I tried.
Now that’s it’s running it’s great. My market doesn’t have 30k piece jobs but when someone wants a multi-colour print front and back on 50 pieces we’re making money with no headaches.
Just pressed 200 on Friday. Not me though. Someone who was trained on it in like 15min. That’s another factor. It’s very simple to operate.
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Doing a lot of it here.
Had some trouble getting a heat press with certain members here repainting them and trying to block people from buying directly.
Had some trouble finding a reliable supplier, ended up going overseas for it all. Way better than any domestic shop I tried.
Now that’s it’s running it’s great. My market doesn’t have 30k piece jobs but when someone wants a multi-colour print front and back on 50 pieces we’re making money with no headaches.
Just pressed 200 on Friday. Not me though. Someone who was trained on it in like 15min. That’s another factor. It’s very simple to operate.
see, that's what I mean. 15 minutes, a new hire off the street and banging out multi color jobs. Employees or lack of- might be one of the major driving factors into which direction a shop should go, I would think? I'm sure high volume shops would still need a fleet of autos to hit production numbers but most mom and pop shops, 2-3k piece orders at very most, how can you not look at dtf?! Speeds will only increase with printers, I see 600 sq/ft hour as one of the faster units but give it a few years, we'll see a huge increase. In the sign industry, we see printers that can print 18" in one single pass, that's amazing..... A few inline heat presses and you're off. No need for the auto shop - for us little guys anyway. As far as "brands", the owner of the "brand" may care how it's produced, but do you think the end user cares? I wonder if they do...I'm keeping the staff I have now but we're getting older, finding a replacement press op is next to impossible so I need to do something for quality of life for us... I don't know, talking to a few people in this industry about the the future really has me shook for some reason. This isn't the same as DTG, this seems to have potential to produce high volume at decent speeds... Just imagine not making a screen again and all that goes into it, and still producing the same quality of a product with ease....
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Ive been looking seriously into DTF, for the reasons that Homer pointed outFor me personally, it is partly due to staffing. We are always struggling to find press ops, constantly. I prob pay the most of any company in the area. I have tried every single way to keep them. We have hired experienced, we have trained young ins...In 2023, I hired 5 ppl for the press ops, not one of them showed up on first day.
My future business plan is not going to work without having stable staff in place. We are to busy and large enough that I can not be the one that goes back there to print, and or train someone to print.
I fee like our business model, or the customers we have will be fine with DTF. I think it can def be different for other shops depending on their clientele. Our clientele is basic. I feel like over the years it turned into that, which is fine. We are really busy and we burn and turn. We have a 6/8 diamondback, so our max is 5 print colors. So we are not doing really high end printing.
We have some orders now in house that we are doing def on. I have samples up in the shop, to show people ( at the moment) ahead of time. And so far no one has issues.
Since the auto and everything is already paid for, I will be keeping it for a bit. We may get 4 large runs per year, if need be just on those runs Ill jump back there for a few hours and pump them out. I don't mind that, but it can not happen day to day.
We are getting a TMEZ new 6 head, (because we have 3 older tajimas ), and looking hard at DTF printer.
Removing 2 employees off my payroll, I would have more than enough to make our monthly payment on both machines, with out the struggle.
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If I was a new guy looking to get into the industry, there's zero chance I'd buy screen printing equipment. Talking to my CCI rep today, it seems many shops are down sizing their fleets of automatics and adding in DTF set ups. Honestly, as technology and print speeds advance, I will be looking to make the switch too, sooner rather than later. Imagine zero screens to make, coat, clean, seps, expensive inks, large expensive presses, 6 employees to operate it all. I remember the DTG movement back at the screenprinters.net days, saying DTG will over rule but I really see this DTF stuff actually taking hold. I understand the look and feel can be rather comparable to a SP as well.....On one hand it's amazing we won't need any of that equipment anymore, but on the other, all those years of knowledge will be almost useless..give it a few years and I think we'll see a giant shift, but that's just me - Thoughts?
How do you het DTF to feel like SP?
On a side note, our DTG is actually doing ok. The feel and quality are indistinguishable from SP. the only downfall is poly content.
pj
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Are we talking DTF (direct to film) or DTG (direct to garment)...?????
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Are we talking DTF (direct to film) or DTG (direct to garment)...?????
DTF, We can make it not so shiny, but no matter what it always feels like a sticker.
pj
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Are we talking DTF (direct to film) or DTG (direct to garment)...?????
DTF, We can make it not so shiny, but no matter what it always feels like a sticker.
pj
Our mutual CCI rep told me about it yesterday. He said it felt wonderful, I'm dying to know myself... I have samples from every DTF printer dealer I can find so see what the magic ink /powder combo is, maybe I can find out. I know our Mutoh/STS dtf printer feels like a sweat patch/sticker. It's not good, at all...
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Are we talking DTF (direct to film) or DTG (direct to garment)...?????
DTF, We can make it not so shiny, but no matter what it always feels like a sticker.
pj
Our mutual CCI rep told me about it yesterday. He said it felt wonderful, I'm dying to know myself... I have samples from every DTF printer dealer I can find so see what the magic ink /powder combo is, maybe I can find out. I know our Mutoh/STS dtf printer feels like a sweat patch/sticker. It's not good, at all...
definitely let me know what you find out. We have been heat pressing with something rougher after application, but even then it's not quite right.
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There are some shops like Pierre's, Rick Roth's, and Jacob's that can make DTG feel and seem just like screen printing. But I have not seen one DTF print that I would be okay with on a ringspun cotton shirt. Not a single one. It's an enormous sticker. Trying putting that on a Metal band tee shirt. It's not gonna happen.
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There are some shops like Pierre's, Rick Roth's, and Jacob's that can make DTG feel and seem just like screen printing. But I have not seen one DTF print that I would be okay with on a ringspun cotton shirt. Not a single one. It's an enormous sticker. Trying putting that on a Metal band tee shirt. It's not gonna happen.
agree 100%, it feels terrible, not a wearable option -right now. But what if it didn't, What if it felt the same, or close? Since this is the biggest complaint, you know that issue will be addressed first in the coming years.... You could have youth SM - 6XL tall metal heads, all with the size appropriate logo and it won't be an issue, at all...
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This needs to be looked at from the customers side. I printed some tri-blends with digital heat apply on half of the back for a small order, they loved them. A large motorcycle club that I've printed for had their last two orders done with dtf and love them, my brother is a member. If you still have another 10 years to go in this business you better be looking hard at this, keep in mind, right now is the worst these printers will be. I don't remember there ever being a dtg expo, yet there's one coming up for dtf. I've had a big uptick in customers wanting multicolor prints, for now I work around that with sim or full color process. You can turn your nose up at AI art, but it's not going away and everyone with a phone and Canva (they had almost 2 billion in revenue end of last year) are going to want what they made on shirts. I just turned 58, my shop and equipment are paid for and I sure don't feel like dropping 30 grand on anything again, plus building out a room to keep it in. My plan is to set the money aside this year and see where this goes for me. Like I said, customers opinion and not your feelings are moving this needle.
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Like I said, customers opinion and not your feelings are moving this needle.
You are correct. And we do use a lot of DTF already for hats, koozies, tote bags, shorts, this and that, just not shirts. Yet. I do know things will change, but until then it's a giant sticker. But when some company works this out yes screen printing will change yet again. It's funny, we got rid of our manual presses exactly 10 years ago. Two reasons - not worth training people and upcoming technology. I still think DTG has a place.
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And we do use a lot of DTF already for hats, koozies, tote bags, shorts, this and that, just not shirts. Yet. I do know things will change, but until then it's a giant sticker.
I would imagine that change coming in the form of removing the powder from the process, somehow incorporating as it's own printhead. This might also allow nice fades that don't need an underbase.
Or maybe skip the powder and go to a pretreat similar to dtg? Have any of that do these in house given that a try, might be a fun experiment. :-)
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I know there are a lot of people trying to crack that right now. It will happen sooner or later. Just depends on the price tag and will the equipment be considered expendable like a lot of the current DTF printers on the market. Use a year and toss. Heck, there are now discharge DTG machines on the market in Asia but how often do you replace that head and ink lines? Something will come along with DTF and if not it will be another way like DTG to decorate a garment. I was joking at Long Beach that in 5 years it will come full circle and everyone will be back on manual presses saying how fast you can print 6 shirts with a one color front and two color back
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This needs to be looked at from the customers side. I printed some tri-blends with digital heat apply on half of the back for a small order, they loved them. A large motorcycle club that I've printed for had their last two orders done with dtf and love them, my brother is a member. If you still have another 10 years to go in this business you better be looking hard at this, keep in mind, right now is the worst these printers will be. I don't remember there ever being a dtg expo, yet there's one coming up for dtf. I've had a big uptick in customers wanting multicolor prints, for now I work around that with sim or full color process. You can turn your nose up at AI art, but it's not going away and everyone with a phone and Canva (they had almost 2 billion in revenue end of last year) are going to want what they made on shirts. I just turned 58, my shop and equipment are paid for and I sure don't feel like dropping 30 grand on anything again, plus building out a room to keep it in. My plan is to set the money aside this year and see where this goes for me. Like I said, customers opinion and not your feelings are moving this needle.
This is why I am looking hard at it now. I know my customer base... also being 51, I do not feel like buying a whole new auto press set up when I struggle to find proper staffing. I agree with that AI art. Our shop would never get that close, we do not even do any sim or 4 color process.
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And we do use a lot of DTF already for hats, koozies, tote bags, shorts, this and that, just not shirts. Yet. I do know things will change, but until then it's a giant sticker.
I would imagine that change coming in the form of removing the powder from the process, somehow incorporating as it's own printhead. This might also allow nice fades that don't need an underbase.
Or maybe skip the powder and go to a pretreat similar to dtg? Have any of that do these in house given that a try, might be a fun experiment. :-)
That would be interesting to try. I might run a sample and throw it through the dryer with no powder and I'll try applying it to a pretreated shirt to see what the results are like.
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And we do use a lot of DTF already for hats, koozies, tote bags, shorts, this and that, just not shirts. Yet. I do know things will change, but until then it's a giant sticker.
I would imagine that change coming in the form of removing the powder from the process, somehow incorporating as it's own printhead. This might also allow nice fades that don't need an underbase.
Or maybe skip the powder and go to a pretreat similar to dtg? Have any of that do these in house given that a try, might be a fun experiment. :-)
That would be interesting to try. I might run a sample and throw it through the dryer with no powder and I'll try applying it to a pretreated shirt to see what the results are like.
I went to a local trade show here in Japan. There was a powder free system on display. They plan to release it in half a year or so. The glue is printed plus a clear base for holding even finer details. The prints once pressed up were as opaque as HSA prints but softer. And the they can be stretched a lot.
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And we do use a lot of DTF already for hats, koozies, tote bags, shorts, this and that, just not shirts. Yet. I do know things will change, but until then it's a giant sticker.
I would imagine that change coming in the form of removing the powder from the process, somehow incorporating as it's own printhead. This might also allow nice fades that don't need an underbase.
Or maybe skip the powder and go to a pretreat similar to dtg? Have any of that do these in house given that a try, might be a fun experiment. :-)
That would be interesting to try. I might run a sample and throw it through the dryer with no powder and I'll try applying it to a pretreated shirt to see what the results are like.
I went to a local trade show here in Japan. There was a powder free system on display. They plan to release it in half a year or so. The glue is printed plus a clear base for holding even finer details. The prints once pressed up were as opaque as HSA prints but softer. And the they can be stretched a lot.
That sounds really cool. I'm curious how durable these print heads are.
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The trick now with large prints of DTF is how to adjust the art for an all halftone print, so far I've did really large prints on black tees and the print is very soft and looks great, holds up good during washing, and I think there's a way to even do halftone on any colour shirt which makes DTF a game changer for large prints like the one here I posted. So it's all in the art prep little bit of a learning curve but if you do it every day or every other day you get the hang of it making it easier to know which art works best with the halftone method. My biggest knock on DTF is the white ink clog (well maybe not DTF but my printer), but I still have a first gen converted machine which I know many have printers now that where built just to print DFT and my not have the white ink problems.
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As new as this model is, there is already a newer one you can pre-order.
https://dtfsuperstore.com/collections/mimaki-dtf/products/mimaki-txf150-75-dtf-printer-with-shaker-package (https://dtfsuperstore.com/collections/mimaki-dtf/products/mimaki-txf150-75-dtf-printer-with-shaker-package)
That's the 30 Grand I was referring to. I could order transfers, but I've always been a "do it in house" guy.
It also seems these require a climate controlled area to operate correctly, although I'm sure that will also change moving forward.
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I have yet to put my hands on a DTF print that id want to wear. Most of the time the print isn't even great. But a lot of that is who is doing the art. But the idea art can be made with DTF always in mind would be hard to do unless thats the only way you printed. I certainly wouldn't' want to go back editing files on files just to be able to print 1 garment or 10 garments every time. The time to do that would be hard to bill for.
DTF will improve, no doubt about it. But to be honest the whole thing feels to me just like DTG did for years. "gonna kill screen printing" and it never has.
I don't doubt there are people who have got some tricks and are doing good work with it, but I haven't seen that yet.
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I have yet to put my hands on a DTF print that id want to wear. Most of the time the print isn't even great. But a lot of that is who is doing the art. But the idea art can be made with DTF always in mind would be hard to do unless thats the only way you printed. I certainly wouldn't' want to go back editing files on files just to be able to print 1 garment or 10 garments every time. The time to do that would be hard to bill for.
DTF will improve, no doubt about it. But to be honest the whole thing feels to me just like DTG did for years. "gonna kill screen printing" and it never has.
I don't doubt there are people who have got some tricks and are doing good work with it, but I haven't seen that yet.
DTF feel is awesome, for small prints. We just did the a 3 color flag on the sleeve of some navy tees and it looked and felt great. If it was the full back it would have been terrible.
That said, I know aguy that's doing his final press with a terrycloth dishtowel and he swears it gives it a better texture and makes it wear better. I haven't tried it yet.
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I have yet to put my hands on a DTF print that id want to wear. Most of the time the print isn't even great. But a lot of that is who is doing the art. But the idea art can be made with DTF always in mind would be hard to do unless thats the only way you printed. I certainly wouldn't' want to go back editing files on files just to be able to print 1 garment or 10 garments every time. The time to do that would be hard to bill for.
DTF will improve, no doubt about it. But to be honest the whole thing feels to me just like DTG did for years. "gonna kill screen printing" and it never has.
I don't doubt there are people who have got some tricks and are doing good work with it, but I haven't seen that yet.
DTF feel is awesome, for small prints. We just did the a 3 color flag on the sleeve of some navy tees and it looked and felt great. If it was the full back it would have been terrible.
That said, I know aguy that's doing his final press with a terrycloth dishtowel and he swears it gives it a better texture and makes it wear better. I haven't tried it yet.
99.9999% of prints we do here have at least a large back or front. Large as in 15"w. Someone send me a DTF full size print like that that doesn't feel like crap and ill look at it.
In fact who here thinks they have this mastered, id like to buy a print.
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I have yet to put my hands on a DTF print that id want to wear. Most of the time the print isn't even great. But a lot of that is who is doing the art. But the idea art can be made with DTF always in mind would be hard to do unless thats the only way you printed. I certainly wouldn't' want to go back editing files on files just to be able to print 1 garment or 10 garments every time. The time to do that would be hard to bill for.
DTF will improve, no doubt about it. But to be honest the whole thing feels to me just like DTG did for years. "gonna kill screen printing" and it never has.
I don't doubt there are people who have got some tricks and are doing good work with it, but I haven't seen that yet.
DTF feel is awesome, for small prints. We just did the a 3 color flag on the sleeve of some navy tees and it looked and felt great. If it was the full back it would have been terrible.
That said, I know aguy that's doing his final press with a terrycloth dishtowel and he swears it gives it a better texture and makes it wear better. I haven't tried it yet.
Do you use anything for a second printing? A piece of pique or waffle knit fabric works quite well for me .
EDIT - That's second "pressing", not printing
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I have yet to put my hands on a DTF print that id want to wear. Most of the time the print isn't even great. But a lot of that is who is doing the art. But the idea art can be made with DTF always in mind would be hard to do unless thats the only way you printed. I certainly wouldn't' want to go back editing files on files just to be able to print 1 garment or 10 garments every time. The time to do that would be hard to bill for.
DTF will improve, no doubt about it. But to be honest the whole thing feels to me just like DTG did for years. "gonna kill screen printing" and it never has.
I don't doubt there are people who have got some tricks and are doing good work with it, but I haven't seen that yet.
DTF feel is awesome, for small prints. We just did the a 3 color flag on the sleeve of some navy tees and it looked and felt great. If it was the full back it would have been terrible.
That said, I know aguy that's doing his final press with a terrycloth dishtowel and he swears it gives it a better texture and makes it wear better. I haven't tried it yet.
Do you use anything for a second printing? A piece of pique or waffle knit fabric works quite well for me .
I generally don't, because our prints are small. Texture doesn't really matter on a logo that's 3.5" wide. I will definitely try it on a larger print when one comes through next. I have on on the horizon, it's a jersey front with an 8" circle...full coverage.
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DTF is the future, the problem for us silk screen printers is that it's easy for someone to set up a DTF at home and cut us out.
There have been a lot of problems getting going with terrible printers and inks being sold, DTF can be a nightmare. The biggest challenge is finding a good reliable printer with inks that give accurate colors. The quality of the film and TPU powder is also very important.
I have a Mutoh from STS, the new big printer (1628) they sell is much better than the smaller printer I have and their colors and washability are great. I'll be upgrading soon.
I find that by putting the printed garment in my silk screen dryer I get a much softer result, and a it washes really well. It's also faster than pressing the printed image a second time.
Our DTF is growing all the time, opens up a whole new market for colourful small runs. Great for bags, books, umbrellas, etc.
We still run 2 MHMs for bigger or one color jobs, you cannot compare the production time or cost of screen printing to DTF on bigger runs.
I only use presses made in the USA, I don't trust the elements in the Chinese units and if a element is faulty it'll be really hard to see. By the way we test by setting the press to a very high heat and pressing white paper, it'll go yellow where it is hot and stay white where the heat is uneven.
One thing I do know is that my local plastisol suppliers are crying, their sales have dropped dramatically since the start of DTF.
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I have yet to put my hands on a DTF print that id want to wear. Most of the time the print isn't even great. But a lot of that is who is doing the art. But the idea art can be made with DTF always in mind would be hard to do unless thats the only way you printed. I certainly wouldn't' want to go back editing files on files just to be able to print 1 garment or 10 garments every time. The time to do that would be hard to bill for.
DTF will improve, no doubt about it. But to be honest the whole thing feels to me just like DTG did for years. "gonna kill screen printing" and it never has.
I don't doubt there are people who have got some tricks and are doing good work with it, but I haven't seen that yet.
DTF feel is awesome, for small prints. We just did the a 3 color flag on the sleeve of some navy tees and it looked and felt great. If it was the full back it would have been terrible.
That said, I know aguy that's doing his final press with a terrycloth dishtowel and he swears it gives it a better texture and makes it wear better. I haven't tried it yet.
Do you use anything for a second printing? A piece of pique or waffle knit fabric works quite well for me .
I generally don't, because our prints are small. Texture doesn't really matter on a logo that's 3.5" wide. I will definitely try it on a larger print when one comes through next. I have on on the horizon, it's a jersey front with an 8" circle...full coverage.
And of course, I meant second "pressing", not printing.
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Someone send me a DTF full size print like that that doesn't feel like crap and ill look at it.
In fact who here thinks they have this mastered, id like to buy a print.
I will bite... Go to www.tprnt.com (http://www.tprnt.com) to get my email and send me the design you want to print. Let me know the color of the shirt. I will print it and send it to you with instructions on how to press. It is not going to feel like a water based discharge print or dye sub but hopefully you will see the value in using DTF as another tool.
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Someone send me a DTF full size print like that that doesn't feel like crap and ill look at it.
In fact who here thinks they have this mastered, id like to buy a print.
I will bite... Go to [url=http://www.tprnt.com]www.tprnt.com[/url] ([url]http://www.tprnt.com[/url]) to get my email and send me the design you want to print. Let me know the color of the shirt. I will print it and send it to you with instructions on how to press. It is not going to feel like a water based discharge print or dye sub but hopefully you will see the value in using DTF as another tool.
Sent, let me know if I owe you something.
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How do we setup a poll to vote on the likelihood of Brandt thinking that a large DTF print is passible?
Hope you share the results.
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How do we setup a poll to vote on the likelihood of Brandt thinking that a large DTF print is passible?
Hope you share the results.
Haha if a great customer only needs x25 of them they start feeling a lot softer.
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How do we setup a poll to vote on the likelihood of Brandt thinking that a large DTF print is passible?
Hope you share the results.
I have 2 samples coming, one a full print and one where I think he knocked the black out. He said I wont love the full print, and I don't doubt that for a second. We sent our art to them so its our art, no tricks.
Ill share my exact thoughts when they come.
Couple years back I was considering buying a digital squeegee. I consider that to be a large investment so I wanted samples. I sent M&R some of my art and told them to also send me some of the "very best prints" they have done. I got back many samples. Only a few that I thought were good/great. Rest in one way or another where IMO were poor to terrible. Stuff out of reg, stuff with pink or blue greys, stuff with banding and so on. This was done in house by M&R by Michelle and her team, she was said to be the best to ever do it. I was not at all impressed for what would have been around 500k investment or so. So be it machine or user or whatever I was out, they wouldn't have been able to pay me 500k to install it and use it free. Literally. Any time I am asked about DS I say the same thing, watching it but that tech aint there yet. It just isn't.
I suspect DTF to be even WORSE spot than that right now. But ill keep watching it and we'll see. The only reason DTF has had any traction IMO is because machines are over all pretty inexpensive.
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Sent, let me know if I owe you something.
Sent two versions. The first has full ink coverage. The second version I removed the black and did a quick and dirty halftone. I know that the full ink version that big will not have a good feel. However, the halftoned version should give an acceptable feel. I did not change the color at all, so it will not be as bright. Once the time is taken to adjust colors, the final transfer colors can look close to the original. The test was to create a good feel in a large DTF print, so I did not take the time to make the color adjustments.
Looking forward to hearing your feedback.
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I think it's safe to say DTF is just another tool in the tool belt. A friend of mine needed 12 shirts with 4 different designs, all of which had 10+ colors in them. Easy choice to use DTF. He loved them and we still made some money. I wouldn't want to heat press a 500 piece order, ever, regardless of the quality.
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Sent, let me know if I owe you something.
Sent two versions. The first has full ink coverage. The second version I removed the black and did a quick and dirty halftone. I know that the full ink version that big will not have a good feel. However, the halftoned version should give an acceptable feel. I did not change the color at all, so it will not be as bright. Once the time is taken to adjust colors, the final transfer colors can look close to the original. The test was to create a good feel in a large DTF print, so I did not take the time to make the color adjustments.
Looking forward to hearing your feedback.
Looking forward to checking it out for sure. Thanks for sending them.
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Sent, let me know if I owe you something.
Sent two versions. The first has full ink coverage. The second version I removed the black and did a quick and dirty halftone. I know that the full ink version that big will not have a good feel. However, the halftoned version should give an acceptable feel. I did not change the color at all, so it will not be as bright. Once the time is taken to adjust colors, the final transfer colors can look close to the original. The test was to create a good feel in a large DTF print, so I did not take the time to make the color adjustments.
Looking forward to hearing your feedback.
Looking forward to checking it out for sure. Thanks for sending them.
are you doing any DTG?
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Sent, let me know if I owe you something.
Sent two versions. The first has full ink coverage. The second version I removed the black and did a quick and dirty halftone. I know that the full ink version that big will not have a good feel. However, the halftoned version should give an acceptable feel. I did not change the color at all, so it will not be as bright. Once the time is taken to adjust colors, the final transfer colors can look close to the original. The test was to create a good feel in a large DTF print, so I did not take the time to make the color adjustments.
Looking forward to hearing your feedback.
Looking forward to checking it out for sure. Thanks for sending them.
are you doing any DTG?
No, sold our Mlink years ago, Brother machine before that.
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I got some DTG sample prints many years back, look great coming off the press but within a few weeks prints cracked and faded off the shirt, can't think of the name of the company now but they were the top dog in DTG before M&R jumped into it. They printed a white plastisol base then the DTG printed the colors and ran them thru this crazy looking M&R dryer. I have a dragon file that I print very large with DTF and it has very very soft feel, I washed this shirt many many times and it still looks and feel great, if anyone doing DTF in-house want to try this file I'll send it to you just drop me an email.
just came to me it was the Kornit DTG machines
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Got the samples in.
This is unbiased as I can be on this. I am thankful DonR sent the samples and he did not charge me and he should/could have. He sent 2 samples of the same print. One is printed as normal with black printed. The other is printed without black and also has parts of it knocked out in half tone pattern that will reduce its hand/feel. He mentioned he did not retouch the art or do any funny business just printed what I sent him. I sent him a 300DPI 15"w PNG. We pressed them with a Stahls heat press to his specs. Gildan 100% Cotton shirts.
I think the files are too large to put all in this reply so I will probably have to do multiples. First prints are the full image with black printed. From a few feet the image looks great, colors aren't bad. As you get closer you start seeing the issues. Greys are toned red/brown, not that way in the art. On the edges you have spots where its got underbase peaking or spots where the rip freaks out with a fade/glow and it trys to solve it and it looks wrong just like DTG will do. I think most of this could be fixed in art. But wouldn't be a 2 minute fix either. It feels thick/rubbery and I think in general terrible as suspected. This would be sellable in regards if you had a garment that couldn't be screen printed or a forgot or messed up printed garment you could sub this for a couple and I think it would be OK. But i think you'd have to coach the customer its not the same as screen print.
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These will be the one where he killed the black and half toned the whole image. This is done to reduce the hand and it definitely does that. But it looks terrible. It also had dots not stick to the shirt and this made it look even worse. We followed his instructions but maybe we did something wrong in that regard and some tweaking the dots would not stay behind. But it still looks terrible. I would not sell this version under any context.
I will wash both when I can see how they feel after a couple washes.
For me without a single doubt DTG is better than this DTF. My Mlink DTG was better than this DTF in feel and hand.
I still think there is a market for both DTG/DTF but its not me yet.
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That wasn't to bad. I was expecting to get totally trashed. Brandt's artwork was great "retail quality" but not what I would every suggest doing with DTF or DTG. However, when you get a customer who insists on printing a few shirts with a lot of colors, DTF is a great way to go. Every tool has it's use. As a side note, when the two prints were shown to my staff side by side, more picked the halftoned without black for the faded into the shirt look.
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That wasn't to bad. I was expecting to get totally trashed. Brandt's artwork was great "retail quality" but not what I would every suggest doing with DTF or DTG. However, when you get a customer who insists on printing a few shirts with a lot of colors, DTF is a great way to go. Every tool has it's use. As a side note, when the two prints were shown to my staff side by side, more picked the halftoned without black for the faded into the shirt look.
I tend to agree, its a tool, but the shops using this and playing it as screen equivalent I would challenge. Not that you are.
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Thanks for taking the time to post back the results. One thing that is cool is that from when you said you sent the files to when you posted this example it was only 3 days which is super fast.
The premise of this thread however was looking at DTF as a replacement for screen printing, and this is a great example of how this will never replace screen print. Just another tool you can use for the right instance like truckers, totes, neck labels, very small prints both in size or print run. I know a company that use theirs mostly for neck labels and long sleeve prints since long sleeve prints are a pain. I also know a company that uses them for neck labels, but doesn't have people forward thinking that it opens it to being able to do a full color label as an upsell, and they still just do one colors.
If you don't like the feel of a heat pressed plastisol print, you'll never like the feel of any DTF transfer. If it could have a more silicon feel it would be a little more premium feeling in my opinion. Unless there is a fairytale discharge transfer that comes along, I think the physics of a transfer isn't able to get any better, it's gluing a sheet of something to fabric. It can be a good product when used right, but this isn't some revolution like people like to talk about.
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Thanks for taking the time to post back the results. One thing that is cool is that from when you said you sent the files to when you posted this example it was only 3 days which is super fast.
The premise of this thread however was looking at DTF as a replacement for screen printing, and this is a great example of how this will never replace screen print. Just another tool you can use for the right instance like truckers, totes, neck labels, very small prints both in size or print run. I know a company that use theirs mostly for neck labels and long sleeve prints since long sleeve prints are a pain. I also know a company that uses them for neck labels, but doesn't have people forward thinking that it opens it to being able to do a full color label as an upsell, and they still just do one colors.
If you don't like the feel of a heat pressed plastisol print, you'll never like the feel of any DTF transfer. If it could have a more silicon feel it would be a little more premium feeling in my opinion. Unless there is a fairytale discharge transfer that comes along, I think the physics of a transfer isn't able to get any better, it's gluing a sheet of something to fabric. It can be a good product when used right, but this isn't some revolution like people like to talk about.
To be fair they came yesterday, we just didn't have time to press them, so it being fast, no question about that. It's fast.
I think the rest of your post is pretty much dead on to my thoughts. Its a tool, if you learn it in and out you can do something that I think will be acceptable for "extras" or shirts they forget to order or a mess up on press or similar. I would never want to tell my customers they should use DTF to sell their merch though. Thats not a good idea at all. Its not close either. It needs a giant leap forward before that would be logical.
I don't know that it will get there. Even when you go hybrid printing. Have a look at Fanatics reviews some time. It's not good and thats a massive investment and closer to a good product if done well. But its still a miss.
Ill be forever watching it and interested.
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Thank you everyone for replying and the information posted. Extremely valuable thread for those newer to the game!
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I had a great DTF use case yesterday. I accidentally burned a sleeve on a recent job. Front, back and left sleeve print. Multiple colors. I told the client I would replace it but it would be with a transfer so it won't be an exact match. They didn't care and appreciated the replacement. That may not work for every client, but in this case I'm glad I didn't need to setup 3 print locations for 1 shirt lol.
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I had a great DTF use case yesterday. I accidentally burned a sleeve on a recent job. Front, back and left sleeve print. Multiple colors. I told the client I would replace it but it would be with a transfer so it won't be an exact match. They didn't care and appreciated the replacement. That may not work for every client, but in this case I'm glad I didn't need to setup 3 print locations for 1 shirt lol.
I think that's a perfect use case!
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These will be the one where he killed the black and half toned the whole image. This is done to reduce the hand and it definitely does that. But it looks terrible. It also had dots not stick to the shirt and this made it look even worse. We followed his instructions but maybe we did something wrong in that regard and some tweaking the dots would not stay behind. But it still looks terrible. I would not sell this version under any context.
I will wash both when I can see how they feel after a couple washes.
For me without a single doubt DTG is better than this DTF. My Mlink DTG was better than this DTF in feel and hand.
I still think there is a market for both DTG/DTF but its not me yet.
I would have been surprised if they were not similar to other Direct to Film (DTF) transfers available, unless there was a completely unique system for printing them and a different type of adhesive involved. The DTF transfers with printed glue that I encountered at a local trade show here in Japan were remarkable—exceptionally soft and incredibly stretchable. However, according to the system's manufacturer, it will be at least six months to a year before the product is launched, possibly even longer
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Having done a couple hundred DTF orders, using Don and Supacolor, it is about the image very much. Brandt's images are beautiful, but I would not recommend DTF for that art. For a short run, it would have to be DTG, imho. It's up to the customer in the end, and we simply aren't spending the time to screen 6 pieces in full color. We do not try to claim that it's the same as screenprinting, but rather an alternative to get their image on a few pieces.
Steve
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We, are buying about $700.00 in DTF a wk. Customers are coming in asking for it specifically. Oddly enough, it's not even only people (in the business of apparel). It's end users. Maybe 50/50. The general public is getting to be aware of it.
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Our Mutoh / STS printer finally died, almost 2 years to the day and 3 print heads later. We have a new one coming in from Printomize. Do not buy a printer that takes cartridges, ever. No mater what. We absolutely have to have it in house. If all goes well, in the next few years we will 100% transition away from screen printing.
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We, are buying about $700.00 in DTF a wk. Customers are coming in asking for it specifically. Oddly enough, it's not even only people (in the business of apparel). It's end users. Maybe 50/50. The general public is getting to be aware of it.
That isn't shocking.... When something is all the "buzz" people buy it. Even without knowing much about it.
What I think some will over look is if that customer doesn't like DTF because the shop doing it doesn't do it right or understand art that is best suited for it or the customer isn't understanding what its best for...then not only lose that customer for future DTF but maybe entirely. Not that your shop is one of those, not saying that at all.
I am seeing a uptick of people saying "how do you print shirts, I don't want DTF or DTG" type thing.
But to be fair I am also seeing a uptick of people asking if we can DTF something.
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Just had one of our biggest contract clients ask us to do one shirt for a good client of there's, no problem got it ready for pick up in an hour....dang @Homer, I'm still dicking around with our old L1800 and it's still printing pretty good, just had to keep up maintenance all the time. I don't see DTF fully taking over our screen printing but it's a big help to have around for the quick full color stuff and crazy print location crap etc.
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We do a few thousand DTF a week. We could go as high as 10K a week with current equipment. If we did get that high and sustain it for several weeks, I would probably buy 2 of the M&R Quattro's though.
I think it's already taken over 30% of our "custom" level orders. Screen printing will stay but those sub 100 piece orders are taken over for sure.
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What I think some will over look is if that customer doesn't like DTF because the shop doing it doesn't do it right or understand art that is best suited for it or the customer isn't understanding what its best for...then not only lose that customer for future DTF but maybe entirely. Not that your shop is one of those, not saying that at all.
I am seeing an uptick of people saying "how do you print shirts, I don't want DTF or DTG" type thing.
In my opinion, same as screen printing. People will print stuff that is not ideal for the process.
When I read here that you were going to press the DTF samples yourself, it made me a little sceptical. Because that is a huge part of the process, it’s as important to dial in as the print itself. can’t really dial in with two sheets.
People say the same stuff to me about screen printing. Doesn’t it crack? There will always be crabby shops to win business from no matter what the process. Always some shops making a great process look bad.
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We, are buying about $700.00 in DTF a wk. Customers are coming in asking for it specifically. Oddly enough, it's not even only people (in the business of apparel). It's end users. Maybe 50/50. The general public is getting to be aware of it.
I am seeing a uptick of people saying "how do you print shirts, I don't want DTF or DTG" type thing.
But to be fair I am also seeing a uptick of people asking if we can DTF something.
This for sure
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Our Mutoh / STS printer finally died, almost 2 years to the day and 3 print heads later. We have a new one coming in from Printomize. Do not buy a printer that takes cartridges, ever. No mater what. We absolutely have to have it in house. If all goes well, in the next few years we will 100% transition away from screen printing.
This has my attention, in terms of transitioning away from screen printing all together. How will you handle large volume runs or are you shying away from that type of work all together?
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Our Mutoh / STS printer finally died, almost 2 years to the day and 3 print heads later. We have a new one coming in from Printomize. Do not buy a printer that takes cartridges, ever. No mater what. We absolutely have to have it in house. If all goes well, in the next few years we will 100% transition away from screen printing.
This has my attention, in terms of transitioning away from screen printing all together. How will you handle large volume runs or are you shying away from that type of work all together?
We're slowly building a fleet of heat presses. I'd like to make a system where an off the street new hire can be producing in a matter of a few hours, unsupervised. I'm thinking of an overhead laser alignment system, reverse reg marks on the dtf sheets, set, align, press, done...as simple as I can make it. We don't run fast anyway because ultimately speed isn't our jam....I'm factoring in all aspects of making a screen for production time vs DTF so large jobs might technically print faster, but are they really going to be done faster and cheaper? I don't really know yet. I'm looking at everything from cleaning, coating, DTS, exposing, registration, test prints, changing out squeegies, angles, seps and adjustments- all those little things that require time. I'm not even factoring in the inks and chemicals used yet- I'm only looking at the human element of it. Plus a new hires wage isn't nearly as much as a knowledgeable press op... So a large run might take a little more time DTF, start to finish, but it may not cost more. I have to make sure the math is mathin'....We will still keep the screen equipment because it's all paid for, owes us nothing and probably isn't worth much anyway. I'm sure there will be a time we have to run a screen job, neons, special effects, whatever...
The past few years we have been somewhat actively searching for the right person to train to become a press op. All attempts have failed miserably. I have zero hope in finding a young person willing to learn so we have to depend on the employees we have now and I want to protect them as well, not let them "age out" of the job. Their quality of life is important, we're all getting older. Our newest hire has been with us 8 years, my longest I think is going on 15 years so that's one of my main driving factors into investigating this, we can not count on anyone but ourselves. The way I see it, the hard part is done, customer accounts have been established, now I just need to keep feeding the machine we created. This might be a lost cause, maybe not work like I plan but I have to at least try. The new printer should be here next week so we'll start to feed more low quantity jobs to it and see how she goes. The samples I received were actually decent, not like the STS prints, those felt like a cheap dollar store shower curtain. We never sold shirts with large dtf prints so we have to do some testing first.
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What I think some will over look is if that customer doesn't like DTF because the shop doing it doesn't do it right or understand art that is best suited for it or the customer isn't understanding what its best for...then not only lose that customer for future DTF but maybe entirely. Not that your shop is one of those, not saying that at all.
I am seeing an uptick of people saying "how do you print shirts, I don't want DTF or DTG" type thing.
In my opinion, same as screen printing. People will print stuff that is not ideal for the process.
When I read here that you were going to press the DTF samples yourself, it made me a little sceptical. Because that is a huge part of the process, it’s as important to dial in as the print itself. can’t really dial in with two sheets.
People say the same stuff to me about screen printing. Doesn’t it crack? There will always be crabby shops to win business from no matter what the process. Always some shops making a great process look bad.
Definitively true. I wouldn't say we are heat press champions of the world, but we used his direcitons. One was fine, one was not. Same process. Same press. Same person.
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We started off very strong with DTF about a year back but have cool down some, I think a lot of the home gals are buying DTF designs now from bigger companies like Stahls,TKO, SupaPrints and not to leave some of you on here out etc. I really thought about getting a really nice machine that could pump out rolls of DTF but we still do a fair amount of screen printing, plus heat pressing 50 to 100 plus shirts ain't as easy and fast as you think. Yeah you don't have to burn screens and do setup but chit once that is done you just ink and roll long as you can stand at the press where heat pressing 100 plus shirts can wear your butt out faster. When we did ball teams that was a job heat pressing numbers, names which I know is a little different than just slapping a designs on random shirts stacking and rolling, like I've before I like having DTF in-house for the small high color orders and to knock one and two shirts here and there.
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Saw this DTF printer without powder. It prints the adhesive.
https://get.printmosaica.com/cobraflex/
I don't have any affiliation with them.
Anything to reduce steps and eliminate complicated processes create great leaps in production. Make it simple and with less steps.
Some manufacturer should make a roll to roll single or dual heat transfer press with 2 indexing platens or more in the future for production. Just dtf print entire roll of film and load the roll onto a heat transfer press. Something like this picture but bigger.
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No powder is nice but @ 255 sq.ft./per, still not fast enough. Give it a few years to work out the kinks, perfect the system and I will absolutely be on board. The game is changing by the day.
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Higher end dtf printers in the future will have many more robust printheads per color and be more industrial and expensive. Each iterations will be drastically improved.
Current dtf machine are inexpensive and reduce labor costs, far less space requirements and a simple business model. The barrier to entry (low machine cost) is a problem for the industry and wholesalers selling dtf prints directly to end users will hurt traditional screen printing shops. I would think a lot of heat transfer presses are sold to side hustle start-ups.
Just look what happened to the sign screen printing industry. It all went to inkjet except for industrial uses.
There is a place for both inkjets and screen printing but things are changing.
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Saw this DTF printer without powder. It prints the adhesive.
https://get.printmosaica.com/cobraflex/
I don't have any affiliation with them.
Anything to reduce steps and eliminate complicated processes create great leaps in production. Make it simple and with less steps.
I can see someone manufacturer a roll to roll single or dual heat transfer press with 2 indexing platens or more in the future for production. Just dtf print entire roll of film and load the roll onto a heat transfer press. Something like this picture but bigger.
I would not go near the powderless printers. We tested them and the prints do not hold up well at all. They will get there but this is not it...
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Higher end dtf printers in the future will have many more robust printheads per color and be more industrial and expensive. Each iterations will be drastically improved.
Current dtf machine are inexpensive and reduce labor costs, far less space requirements and a simple business model. The barrier to entry (low machine cost) is a problem for the industry and wholesalers selling dtf prints directly to end users will hurt traditional screen printing shops. I would think a lot of heat transfer presses are sold to side hustle start-ups.
Just look what happened to the sign screen printing industry. It all went to inkjet except for industrial uses.
There is a place for both inkjets and screen printing but things are changing.
In our early days, 32 years ago, we printed tons of election signs. Then, it all dried up. We would print anything to be able to bill it, but eventually settled on just apparel decoration. I won't be in this game another 10 years so I'm not all that concerned about it. I just talked a customer into doing 425 left front with DTF, because of the tiny detail that just won't print as cleanly as an inkjet.
Steve
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Higher end dtf printers in the future will have many more robust printheads per color and be more industrial and expensive. Each iterations will be drastically improved.
Current dtf machine are inexpensive and reduce labor costs, far less space requirements and a simple business model. The barrier to entry (low machine cost) is a problem for the industry and wholesalers selling dtf prints directly to end users will hurt traditional screen printing shops. I would think a lot of heat transfer presses are sold to side hustle start-ups.
Just look what happened to the sign screen printing industry. It all went to inkjet except for industrial uses.
There is a place for both inkjets and screen printing but things are changing.
In our early days, 32 years ago, we printed tons of election signs. Then, it all dried up. We would print anything to be able to bill it, but eventually settled on just apparel decoration. I won't be in this game another 10 years so I'm not all that concerned about it. I just talked a customer into doing 425 left front with DTF, because of the tiny detail that just won't print as cleanly as an inkjet.
Steve
same with sign painters and pin stripers when the vinyl plotter came out... All that skill, useless.... I don't love the thought of our skills and knowledge being tossed aside like that but I sure do like the idea of ditching separations and screens.... Nobody wants to perform manual labor anymore.
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I like both.
We just printed 1500 shirts with a single color print. In no fashion is DTF better for that. The sheer amount of plastic waste makes my skin crawl.
We also finished them in less than 3 hours, start to finish, setup to teardown, with a lunch break and 2 people.
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The sheer amount of plastic waste makes my skin crawl.
This is a huge down side. I know the waste we produce isn't great, but I can't imagine the volume of a whole new waste item, plus the inks, carts and whatever nastiness come from curing.
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So I just bought one.
It makes sense for my business. I am always scrambling to find someone to be a press op, it is a constant battle. We only have a 6/8 diamondback, so color limit is 5. Our average shirt order is 12-150 pcs.
So for me this will work. Maybe 3-4 times a year we get a large run, for us it is 500-1500 pcs. All of our equipment is paid for. So I plan on keeping it. If need be, I can run the 3-4 jobs per year for a couple hours if I have to. I have no problem with that. But it's the day to day that I could never do. We are just too busy, and I did it all myself for the first 10 years of the business.
I just did 2 jobs that normally I would have to turn away. Just way too many colors for us to print. I have samples in our showroom of dtf and just go over it with them. They were totally fine..and know something, they look great.
Once I learn to use the DTF, bye bye old lady Sue.
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So I just bought one.
It makes sense for my business. I am always scrambling to find someone to be a press op, it is a constant battle. We only have a 6/8 diamondback, so color limit is 5. Our average shirt order is 12-150 pcs.
So for me this will work. Maybe 3-4 times a year we get a large run, for us it is 500-1500 pcs. All of our equipment is paid for. So I plan on keeping it. If need be, I can run the 3-4 jobs per year for a couple hours if I have to. I have no problem with that. But it's the day to day that I could never do. We are just too busy, and I did it all myself for the first 10 years of the business.
I just did 2 jobs that normally I would have to turn away. Just way too many colors for us to print. I have samples in our showroom of dtf and just go over it with them. They were totally fine..and know something, they look great.
Once I learn to use the DTF, bye bye old lady Sue.
I think you made the right call.
Get a dual platen heat press though. Your throughput is so much faster.
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Heck yeah this for sure...... (Get a dual platen heat press though. Your throughput is so much faster.) a single heat press will wear you out on large orders, we don't a dual but we have two heat press's going. Also get at least a 16x20 heat press, I thought 15x15 was big enough but now I know better.
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yes, we have to old singles, that we just used for it, def need something more efficient and better.
Thats next.
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New advanced heat presses will be coming out. Take a look at this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s)
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New advanced heat presses will be coming out. Take a look at this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s)
Then at least in this case you can just blame the robot for the stupid placement on both the tees and especially the totes.
They've had this robot arm at the show for a couple years now, it'd be neat to know how many they have sold, and of the people who bought them how many are actually using them on the regular. I'd bet it's more of a pain to setup than just using some lasers and placing the transfers on the press with laser alignment.
Call me when a DTF printer can print silicon inks, until then transfers will always feel like a plastic sheet on a shirt and should only be used sparingly.
I should post my kindergarten school photo of me in a crewneck sweatshirt with a big iron on transfer my mom made for me. If transfers haven't replaced screen printing in all this time, it sure isn't going to now, hopefully it just continues to increase the perceived value of screen printing as an art form rather than a cheap commodity.
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New advanced heat presses will be coming out. Take a look at this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s)
hopefully it just continues to increase the perceived value of screen printing as an art form rather than a cheap commodity.
I don't know man, I think it's sucking the value right out of the industry. I hate it too, don't get me wrong. I am not jazzed at all about this. The cost of entry to be "in the biz" has just decreased dramatically, everyone with Canva and access to DTF transfers are taking over school orders.... I think your customer base is going to dictate a lot about the future. I know our base doesn't know or care how it's made. They want it NOW and CHEAP, the old Amazon effect.. I need to either change my customer base or adjust to the demands. So far, stacking shelves at Home Depot sounds like the better option ::)
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I don't know man, I think it's sucking the value right out of the industry.
This.
My view, the layman is foaming at the mouth how good DTF is for them. But the layman also thinks their local screen print shop that pfpfpfpfpfpfpfpfpfpfpf a white print is amazing. The trouble is those people have friends and they tell all their friends about this new way to print shirts (which its really not new its just easy/popular now). Then those people go out and buy it and unless they know better or the print starts failing they think its great.
But what I do know is any of my common screen print customers that end up trying this stuff, come running right back to us with a horror story.
I still think it has its place, I think that place is MUCH smaller than people are pushing for right now. (Fix for needing a infant shirt with adult order, garment with a hole and no replacement at that time, one off shirt for a event, etc).
Ill say it this way, if the world really goes to DTF. A lot of shops will be out of business, so you doing DTF will be short lived as that process/equipment will continue to improve/get easier and probably cheaper too. What value do you think your shop will offer if Betty Sue can spend 10k and get to the top of the game just like you. Many shops don't do art worth a dang, AI will replace most shops art team. No value there. All these people will run out and get accounts for blanks just like all of us have. There will be no value there. These DTF people will replace us all if you don't start educating people on the differences.
At the end of the day, people have heat pressed their hearts out and its not killed screen printing yet.
DTF is sort of like Electric Cars. REALLY good on paper. REALLY fast. Lower cost to drive than ICE cars. BUT, I have owned one. If you aren't in a big city charging networks are a joke. Have you deal with the winter in a Electric car yet? Range is dramatically reduced. Have to travel certain ways to make sure you can hit a charger. So on and so fourth. Perfect for certain situations.....but not near all. Where are people who live in apartments going to charge a electric car in a small town? Ill help you, they aren't. How about people who live in dorms? Sure all this is improving, but its going to need major major leap forward to be able to work for all logically, never mind the electric grid concerns. DTF is like all of this, great for certain stuff but practicality of it for all your printing is not even remotely logical.
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Agreed on all points Brandt!
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New advanced heat presses will be coming out. Take a look at this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s)
Just ordered one!.... ah just kidding! LOL
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New advanced heat presses will be coming out. Take a look at this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s)
hopefully it just continues to increase the perceived value of screen printing as an art form rather than a cheap commodity.
I don't know man, I think it's sucking the value right out of the industry. I hate it too, don't get me wrong. I am not jazzed at all about this. The cost of entry to be "in the biz" has just decreased dramatically, everyone with Canva and access to DTF transfers are taking over school orders.... I think your customer base is going to dictate a lot about the future. I know our base doesn't know or care how it's made. They want it NOW and CHEAP, the old Amazon effect.. I need to either change my customer base or adjust to the demands. So far, stacking shelves at Home Depot sounds like the better option ::)
Agreed. I've applied countless times to Costco. Part timers get full benefits and the pay aint bad lol. I'd rather screen print part time for the 10 clients that I actually like and split my time at a regular job that has health insurance at this point lol.
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Agreed. I've applied countless times to Costco. Part timers get full benefits and the pay ain't bad lol. I'd rather screen print part time for the 10 clients that I actually like and split my time at a regular job that has health insurance at this point lol.
This is a big part of why I haven't just started my own print shop and have always kept a day job and my freelance. I did at one time start a small shop in a brick n motor in FL after being laid off at Disney. I loved working for my own business there, but it also gave me a clear look into the headaches and pit falls of starting out. I was getting in deep and just hit the slow slumps of the winter season when my wife's father passed away. We ended up feeling the need to move closer to my In-Laws but that move was kind of convenient at the time. I was able to close that business and take a day job. That enabled me to make a fresh start...and took that job with M&R.
Combined, I've always made as much $ as some shop owners take home without all of that headache and less in debt. I'm very comfortable working my own hours for my evening business. At the same time, working for a place in the day that provides good health benefits. I feel I've always had it pretty good this way. I do realize that (doing it this way), for my own personal income, I will never get so far out there in business to where I'm taking home 250k a year or more. The sep business (as an individual, can only take you so far. You can only output so much. Not like a printing business where you can upscale unless I were to hire a staff of artist and train them. But there is a bunch of headaches that comes with that also. It's all in what you put into it, I guess. My business is capped more like an employee with limitless overtime. LOL.
My wife on the other hand, is trying her hand at running her business. Doing pretty good at the moment with about 300% increase over last year. As a supplier to those crafters (Cricut moms and DTF Ball team customers) previously mentioned. She's growing there and DTF is about 65% of her sales. I do about 2-3 jpg clean ups for her per night LOL.
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New advanced heat presses will be coming out. Take a look at this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-ZLQRRFW8&t=307s)
Just ordered one!.... ah just kidding! LOL
I saw it at the show, they said it wasn't really for sale / had an issue or two I believe. I think it would be great for doing large runs of tote bags or something like that, but not t-shirts, due to positioning, larger transfer size, etc.
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Interesting read here. One thing that I didn’t see mentioned with all the comparisons of DTF to DTG is the content of the substrate. Very limited in DTG; wide open for DTF. I see this as a huge deal - controlling color across a multitude of fabrics without worrying about dye sublimation or migration.
As a distributor for M&R, I can tell you the Quatro platform has been very successful since product launch in early Q4 last year. Shameless plug but important in the world of cheap ink issues - all Quatro inks are manufactured for M&R by Nazdar at our facility in Kansas. The ability to be close to M&R physically and work with them constantly on the OEM inks is a huge advantage.
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Just pressed a sample from the Quatro that my M&R rep left. I'm pretty impressed by the hand. Anyone else tried prints off it?
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Just pressed a sample from the Quatro that my M&R rep left. I'm pretty impressed by the hand. Anyone else tried prints off it?
can you describe it please?
thanx,
pj
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The way a DTF feels is an ambigram of how of it's named.
F = Fabric
T = To
D = Diaper
Feels like putting a diaper on your apparel, it's plastic and cheap feeling.
I've started to notice people on instagram say "stay away from DTF" and the public consensus seems to be starting to shift back to back to screen print is king and DTG being perceived as better quality due to the hand feel.
The only reason people like DTF is because it's "Cheap" and Easy (Lazy?) it is, and that it gets the job done, but it's not actually that great of quality unless you like wearing a sticker on your shirt. I've been selling more DTG and only reserve transfers for totes and truckers, or small / light coverage images, neck labels. The challenge I have now is that DTF can hold much higher detail than DTG but at the sacrifice of hand feel.
If you think it's a replacement for screen printing I think you are going to be disappointed, just another tool that should be used in a limited amount of situations. I'll bet in 15-20 years all DTF prints will be in the landfill, and screen printed from the same tees will still be sold in vintage shops. The D in DTF = Disposable Transfer Facsimile
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I have jumped into and use a lot of DTF, and every one of the jobs has been well recieved. That said, because of its hand, it is better suited for fleece and heavier garments, and with designs containing a generous amount of empty space. If I have a hand in creating or tweaking the art for a DTF job, I try to follow Colin Chapman's philosophy “Simplify, then add lightness.”
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Not all DTF is the same, like screen printing, one printer will get a soft smooth finish, another thick and rough
Depends a lot on the ink and TPU glue. Also how you apply it and the garment.
I don't do a second hit in the press, I put the garments through my oven. This dulls them a bit and the ink seems to melt into the fabric giving a much softer feel and amazing wash tests.
We have a heavy weight cotton sweatshirt that print really well with DTF. A full front on a TS does I agree feel like plastic. It's amazing for pocket prints, hats, sleeves, small orders with lots of colors.
If you want to be a artist stick with printing, if you want to make money add DTF. Just be careful what you buy, there is a lot of junk on the market.
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Just pressed a sample from the Quatro that my M&R rep left. I'm pretty impressed by the hand. Anyone else tried prints off it?
can you describe it please?
thanx,
pj
It feels like a heat pressed screen printed image. Zero plastic feel, no crinkle. I stretched the large section of the print and no sign of splitting. I got a lot of samples in from other companies and none of them come close to this. Next I'll bring it home and throw it in the wash with every load to see how it holds up. I pressed it onto a G500, I have one more sample and might put it on a 3001. I would imagine you can get samples from M&R, I'd recommend it if you're looking at these machines.
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The hand was my drawback also. And never preferring a DTG or a DTF over screen print. If they both went away, I’d be fine with it. But sales are strong for people asking for DTF for us. But when they don’t ask for it, and the quantity and color count allows, we chose screen print.
Having said that, I’ve received samples and heat presses in house and there can be a drastic difference from supplier to supplier. We love what we get from our current supplier. Uddercolor.com. He’s a meticulous printer as well. We do make use of halftones in the DTF where we can and that also helps break up the hand.
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Dan is right, halftoning is the way to go for a smooth soft print. I like using a line tone. My buddy and vendor wor the trophy at the DTF expo in Phoenix. I was amazed at the difference in all the entries using the same art for the contest. I was being spoiled and didn't know it because I had always used him.
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We just had a Velox installed yesterday and the very first test prints were very impressive. Using canvas for the second press completely changed the feel. We'll be doing some testing today with different percentages of white. We have several contract printers using other DTF companies that have already placed order with us. It's a bit to early to tell but I really feel this will be a great compliment to screen printing with a much higher margin.
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I'm able to do halftone prints with a very soft hand now on black shirts but have yet to get a nice halftone color print to work on a red,blue, green etc or light color shirt, someone is going to come up with a an app/program where you can just pop your image in and hit a button and get a halftone ready to print image, now that will be a game changer for DTF. Right now it takes a little skill to get a nice halftone print ready for DTF and I don't do it a lot and have to go back from time to time to brush back up my skills to get an image ready for halftone DTF.
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whats the initial investment needed? we outsource right now and I am happy with that but I see the need growing cause we deal with a lot of schools and the clubs are all 10-15 kids.
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We just had a Velox installed yesterday and the very first test prints were very impressive. Using canvas for the second press completely changed the feel. We'll be doing some testing today with different percentages of white. We have several contract printers using other DTF companies that have already placed order with us. It's a bit to early to tell but I really feel this will be a great compliment to screen printing with a much higher margin.
When you think you have it right, id like a sample. Happy to pay.
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When you think you have it right, id like a sample. Happy to pay.
We just had a Velox installed yesterday and the very first test prints were very impressive. Using canvas for the second press completely changed the feel. We'll be doing some testing today with different percentages of white. We have several contract printers using other DTF companies that have already placed order with us. It's a bit to early to tell but I really feel this will be a great compliment to screen printing with a much higher margin.
Will do. I do expect it to be at least a few weeks. We have a crap ton of testing and tweaking to do. I am headed to Minnesaota next week for a 2 day training seminar and I'm hoping that jump starts things. I can tell you that color reproduction is pretty spot on.
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whats the initial investment needed? we outsource right now and I am happy with that but I see the need growing cause we deal with a lot of schools and the clubs are all 10-15 kids.
Our unit was just north of 40k. There are cheaper units but we went with SPSI for the support, and we have a great relationship with them. We already have customers wanting to send orders but we just are not ready yet. One day of training isn't enough and I don't want to make our first clients guinea pigs.
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We just had a Velox installed yesterday and the very first test prints were very impressive. Using canvas for the second press completely changed the feel. We'll be doing some testing today with different percentages of white. We have several contract printers using other DTF companies that have already placed order with us. It's a bit to early to tell but I really feel this will be a great compliment to screen printing with a much higher margin.
Canvas? Do tell please. Any particular type?
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We just had a Velox installed yesterday and the very first test prints were very impressive. Using canvas for the second press completely changed the feel. We'll be doing some testing today with different percentages of white. We have several contract printers using other DTF companies that have already placed order with us. It's a bit to early to tell but I really feel this will be a great compliment to screen printing with a much higher margin.
Canvas? Do tell please. Any particular type?
You're looking for something with a little texture, and not too thick. I use pique, or the canvas from a cheap tote. It mostly gets rid of that smooth plastic feel by adding the texture of the cover "sheet". Upholsterers add various textures to vinyl similarly.
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Canvas? Do tell please. Any particular type?
I've seen people cutting out blank ones from Hobby Lobby. Haven't tried it yet