TSB
Computers and Software => Computers and Software - General => Topic started by: Jamisun on March 28, 2017, 04:04:33 PM
-
Hey there!
Looking for some help- we purchased the T-3270 a year ago when it first came out and we pair it with the ACCURip Black Pearl and we use the Rite Film from Ryonet. We have had to adjust print settings to get our film to line up- and even so- it doesn't always line up properly. Does anyone else use this same combination and can give me the settings that work for this combination?
Big big thanks in advance!
-
Hey Jamisun, search my posts on this. You might have a lemon. We had the issue and no combination of film and settings including Epson's own media would resolve, Epson bought the unit back. Don't let them tell you it's not a known issue. Also AR Black Pearl is identical to the AR packaged by Epson, the Epson version is just limited to their two models they are pushing for film.
-
Hey there!
Looking for some help- we purchased the T-3270 a year ago when it first came out and we pair it with the ACCURip Black Pearl and we use the Rite Film from Ryonet. We have had to adjust print settings to get our film to line up- and even so- it doesn't always line up properly. Does anyone else use this same combination and can give me the settings that work for this combination?
Big big thanks in advance!
I have one but use cadlink for my rip. i have found that if you have one image vertical and the other parts horizontal it screws with the registration.
Shane
-
Hey there!
Looking for some help- we purchased the T-3270 a year ago when it first came out and we pair it with the ACCURip Black Pearl and we use the Rite Film from Ryonet. We have had to adjust print settings to get our film to line up- and even so- it doesn't always line up properly. Does anyone else use this same combination and can give me the settings that work for this combination?
Big big thanks in advance!
I have one but use cadlink for my rip. i have found that if you have one image vertical and the other parts horizontal it screws with the registration.
Shane
This is the case with all inkjet printers
-
Yep. I forget about it trying to save on film it bites me in the ass.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
-
Yep. I forget about it trying to save on film it bites me in the ass.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Happens often a lot to folks replacing one plate of a set, and forgetting how the originals were run
-
Yep.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
-
You guys make me nervous.
I bought a T3270 in the USA and it is being shipped to Israel.
It cost a third of the price in the USA but
I won't have any guarantee here.
I've done this a before with a few 4880's but had no problems.
Hopefully it'll work well.
-
I have one but use cadlink for my rip. i have found that if you have one image vertical and the other parts horizontal it screws with the registration.
Shane
[/quote]
Thank you Shane- we run all of our films out in the same direction- the stretch or shrink only occurs vertically from the direction the film feeds off the roll - so like you said- they must all face the same way coming out. So we figured that part out.
The amount of stretch or shrink in the image varies - sometimes it seems at the beginning of the roll of film it is different than at the end- which makes me think it is a tension setting for the roller that needs some sort of adjustment. If you run out of film in the middle of printing a seven color job- you might as well forget it and start over on a new roll because they will not line up. Or you can waste film trying to print the next three or four with the right stretch to line up. Sometimes you print a whole job and one piece of film printed in the middle of the series doesn't line up- but the rest do- which totally throws a wrench in whatever idea that I may have that the issue has consistent variables. We have tried some that are recommend concerning platen gap and all that- which was how we addressed it on the 4900 awhile ago (we had this issue on that printer but we were able to resolve by defining a setting that worked with the material- took a long time, and much wasted film and ink, to get it right though). I find it hard to believe there hasn't been a specific setting devised for this material. There are so many factors involved- it's hard to pin point the problem. And we are having the same problem again with the 4900 - which for awhile made me think it was the Black Pearl Accurip- which we use on both printers but toggle back and forth. Is the film itself bad? Maybe how it's attached to the roll? Or is something in the AccuRip software telling the roll to maintain a certain tension? I would say it's the printer but I am having the issue with the 4900 again as well.
-
Hey Jamisun, search my posts on this. You might have a lemon. We had the issue and no combination of film and settings including Epson's own media would resolve, Epson bought the unit back. Don't let them tell you it's not a known issue. Also AR Black Pearl is identical to the AR packaged by Epson, the Epson version is just limited to their two models they are pushing for film.
I have read your posts for this- thank you so much. It was refreshing to hear someone else had the same issue. Considering we bought the printer as it first became available- I wouldn't be surprised it is a lemon. But I am having the same kind of trouble with my 4900 now (whereas we resolved the problem with that printer before- now it has come back). I will look at the possibililty of getting in touch with Epson about taking it back before our first year is up. May I ask what you use instead for printing films now? Do you have a product that works well?
-
You guys make me nervous.
I bought a T3270 in the USA and it is being shipped to Israel.
It cost a third of the price in the USA but
I won't have any guarantee here.
I've done this a before with a few 4880's but had no problems.
Hopefully it'll work well.
We bought one in December, we are having no problems with films lining up. AccuRIP Black Pearl, I forget the film brand, but it's good for Pigment inks.
Steve
-
Steve- if you have a moment- will you please let me know what brand of film you are using and your print settings on the printer for that film? I would like to try whatever you have going that works! Thank you!
-
ScreenRite KU17100 (17" x 100') from Garston. By settings for the printer, we print with just the photo black, I think the droplet weight is 13, I can't get into it software right now, kinda busy...
Steve
-
Thank you, Steve- greatly appreciated. I know you are still busy but if you see what you have listed for the paper setting - and if you have a special platen gap or paper suction setting- that would be awesome. Thanks again!
-
Here's a screen capture... we may move the droplet size up...
Steve
-
We have had a lot of issues with films not lining up (4800 and 4880). We recently started using 5 mil film with a 3" core instead of a 2" core and the problem has "almost" gone away completely. I'm not saying it's your issue but it has made a massive difference for us.
-
Thank you, Steve!
-
I have to admit, we haven't used film in about 12 years. But what would happen if you used sheets instead of roll? (I think I'm about to be educated)
-
We have the settings for our AccuRip as similar- our droplet weight is at 12- but that's what works well with our film. I am more interested in what others have used for the settings on this machine to tell the printer what the film is- like the adjustments for Paper feed, Platen's Gap and Paper type- as you designate in Paper Custom Settings on the actual printer itself. I actually have an Epson Technician coming to help us today- and we will actually hopefully have the issues resolved- will post findings. Thank you all for your help.
-
I wish I could help you on that one Jamisun, we pretty much assembled it and set it up, and started printing films. The only thing was using film for pigment based ink. We may yet move to dye base, but I'm still wanting to keep the warranty intact (I'll probably get over that though). If you call Epson for support, I understand that they are quite helpful. I haven't tested that yet, but that's what the tech guy at Garston told me.
Steve
-
I have to admit, we haven't used film in about 12 years. But what would happen if you used sheets instead of roll? (I think I'm about to be educated)
Us film guy's are already in the 20th Century. I would hate to go back even further :)
-
I have to admit, we haven't used film in about 12 years. But what would happen if you used sheets instead of roll? (I think I'm about to be educated)
Us film guy's are already in the 20th Century. I would hate to go back even further :)
I started with tray developing films in a darkroom, I wouldn't want to go back to that...
Steve
-
I understand not wanting go go backwards, but I thought if you used sheets you didn't have to worry about the drag changing on a roll. Like I said, educate me?
-
I have to admit, we haven't used film in about 12 years. But what would happen if you used sheets instead of roll? (I think I'm about to be educated)
Us film guy's are already in the 20th Century. I would hate to go back even further :)
I started with tray developing films in a darkroom, I wouldn't want to go back to that...
Steve
Trays? Let's at least move you up to this beauty.
(http://img.tweede-hands.net/pics/00/11/86/31/33/1c.jpg?4d544d27b9)
-
I havent had this issue on either of my film printers (4800 and 9800), both printing on rolls. One thing I did notice early on is if the roll is tight up against one of the roll holders it will cause issues, but if you keep it just barely from touching either roller the film doesnt seem to drag or catch. I know some other shops who have to unroll the film before printing on their machines. Might try that as a sort of quick fix.
-
I have to admit, we haven't used film in about 12 years. But what would happen if you used sheets instead of roll? (I think I'm about to be educated)
Us film guy's are already in the 20th Century. I would hate to go back even further :)
I started with tray developing films in a darkroom, I wouldn't want to go back to that...
Steve
Trays? Let's at least move you up to this beauty.
([url]http://img.tweede-hands.net/pics/00/11/86/31/33/1c.jpg?4d544d27b9[/url])
the company I worked for did go to PMT, (that's Photo Mechanical Transfer for you young'uns) what a miracle (at the time), and we kept that up until we started using inkjet, a much greater miracle. Will go to DTS eventually...
Steve
-
I understand not wanting go go backwards, but I thought if you used sheets you didn't have to worry about the drag changing on a roll. Like I said, educate me?
I use a 1100.... i need to make sure all my sheets are of the same size, or else the weight of the sheet affects my films by a few millimetres for a large image.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
-
Well I wanted to post my current findings. I have had two Epson Technicians come out to help us with our Problem- and one of them came back a second time and replaced all the parts in our epson concerning the feed. The first technician showed us something nice- but did not eliminate the problem but since I couldn't reproduce the problem again that day we thought it was fixed. He showed us that there is a Print adjust setting that you can make in the custom paper setting to set the length of feed adjust- it's the 500 millimeter test. That was a nice tool but it doesn't solve our problem. After he was here- I figured out exactly what the problem was and now I can reproduce the problem and I have made a work around to address the problem as well. If our design that we are outputing to film has a channel or color in which the printer prints a little and then has to feed for a certain amount before printing the crosshair- the area where it feed is off- every time. As long as the printer prints something (anything- even just a line - all the way down the page- which is now our work around) it will print consistently the same size for all pieces of film in a job. So the problem film is always the one with empty space, where the printer stops printing and the paper feeds.
So I had them send another technician. (both technicians were great by the way- but both did not admit to ever seeing this problem before.) So he performed another test- on that only a technician can perform- and that also seemed to help. But guess what- the problem persisted. So he returned and replaced all motorized parts relating to feeding on the machine. With all new parts- minus the bar which may have something to do with slowing the feed- and I am considering may still be the problem... we still have the issue. Now- alas- I have a workaround- and as long as I am printing from the same roll of film- if I print a thin line down the side of my film so that our printer prints consistently down the roll then I have film that lines up. Epson has not wanted to admit that I have a lemon. Our technician has submitted our film for inspection and as of Friday I received the answer from Epson that our film will not line up no matter what printer we use- it will not line up on any printer as the problem will persist in all Epson printers- even if they replace ours. Which sounds like BS to me. Essentially- Epson is marketing a printer film RIP combination to Screen printers that does not work for screen printers. In our profession, it is absolutely of the greatest importance that our separations line up on film. This printer then is not accurate at all, and what they have said about it being perfect for screen printers is a complete lie. Or I have a lemon of a printer. For anyone who is having a problem with film lining up- print a line down the side of all of your films and they should line up- I am saying this assuming that we EPSON told me is true (which I don't think it is) and this is happening on all Epson printers.
-
Well I wanted to post my current findings. I have had two Epson Technicians come out to help us with our Problem- and one of them came back a second time and replaced all the parts in our epson concerning the feed. The first technician showed us something nice- but did not eliminate the problem but since I couldn't reproduce the problem again that day we thought it was fixed. He showed us that there is a Print adjust setting that you can make in the custom paper setting to set the length of feed adjust- it's the 500 millimeter test. That was a nice tool but it doesn't solve our problem. After he was here- I figured out exactly what the problem was and now I can reproduce the problem and I have made a work around to address the problem as well. If our design that we are outputing to film has a channel or color in which the printer prints a little and then has to feed for a certain amount before printing the crosshair- the area where it feed is off- every time. As long as the printer prints something (anything- even just a line - all the way down the page- which is now our work around) it will print consistently the same size for all pieces of film in a job. So the problem film is always the one with empty space, where the printer stops printing and the paper feeds.
So I had them send another technician. (both technicians were great by the way- but both did not admit to ever seeing this problem before.) So he performed another test- on that only a technician can perform- and that also seemed to help. But guess what- the problem persisted. So he returned and replaced all motorized parts relating to feeding on the machine. With all new parts- minus the bar which may have something to do with slowing the feed- and I am considering may still be the problem... we still have the issue. Now- alas- I have a workaround- and as long as I am printing from the same roll of film- if I print a thin line down the side of my film so that our printer prints consistently down the roll then I have film that lines up. Epson has not wanted to admit that I have a lemon. Our technician has submitted our film for inspection and as of Friday I received the answer from Epson that our film will not line up no matter what printer we use- it will not line up on any printer as the problem will persist in all Epson printers- even if they replace ours. Which sounds like BS to me. Essentially- Epson is marketing a printer film RIP combination to Screen printers that does not work for screen printers. In our profession, it is absolutely of the greatest importance that our separations line up on film. This printer then is not accurate at all, and what they have said about it being perfect for screen printers is a complete lie. Or I have a lemon of a printer. For anyone who is having a problem with film lining up- print a line down the side of all of your films and they should line up- I am saying this assuming that we EPSON told me is true (which I don't think it is) and this is happening on all Epson printers.
my guess here is that the film is advanced by the driver and AR uses (or at least used to) the regular windows driver. Download a copy of the FilmMaker and try it. They use their own driver rather than the Microsoft version, it might make a difference.
'not sure if they support that printer, but if they do, this might be the answer. It does not hurt that it is a better RIP than the AR.
pierre
-
FilmMaker XL works I have it with t3270, just print all films same direction. Minimizes problems.
Shane
-
FilmMaker XL works I have it with t3270, just print all films same direction. Minimizes problems.
Shane
In the FM you can adjust the feed to make it the same in both directions. It's in the queue properties under printer properties and then feed adjust.
we mix both directions when using films without any problems.
pierre
-
Not to rain on the parade but I doubt a different rip or feed length adjustment will resolve this. The printer has no issue imaging correct image lengths when it prints every "line/pass" of the media.
I think these issues are as described- they're related to inaccuracies in the non imaging areas of the film that are fed by the printer. Sounds more like hardware/firmware to me although a rip could be set to instruct the printer not to feed which would resolve the issue in the same way that printing a line on the sides of all films would. All of these are workarounds for poor hardware/firmware/software/media that is not qualified to do the job at hand.
Jamisun- keep on epson, they will buy the unit back. It'll take a lot of repetitive conversations ad nauseum but they know all about the fact that some of these units cannot do the job they are being sold specifically to do. As you suspect, the comment that no other epson printer will be able to print same length films is a bald faced lie. Even if it were true then what the hell are they doing selling it as a printer package for films? Just escalate it up and someone will get it taken care of.
-
Not to rain on the parade but I doubt a different rip or feed length adjustment will resolve this. The printer has no issue imaging correct image lengths when it prints every "line/pass" of the media.
I think these issues are as described- they're related to inaccuracies in the non imaging areas of the film that are fed by the printer. Sounds more like hardware/firmware to me although a rip could be set to instruct the printer not to feed which would resolve the issue in the same way that printing a line on the sides of all films would. All of these are workarounds for poor hardware/firmware/software/media that is not qualified to do the job at hand.
Jamisun- keep on epson, they will buy the unit back. It'll take a lot of repetitive conversations ad nauseum but they know all about the fact that some of these units cannot do the job they are being sold specifically to do. As you suspect, the comment that no other epson printer will be able to print same length films is a bald faced lie. Even if it were true then what the hell are they doing selling it as a printer package for films? Just escalate it up and someone will get it taken care of.
my thinking is the with FM, the RIP is actually doing the feeding rather than the printer. If this is the case, it would eliminate the issues.
pierre
-
"Not to rain on the parade but I doubt a different rip or feed length adjustment will resolve this. The printer has no issue imaging correct image lengths when it prints every "line/pass" of the media.
I think these issues are as described- they're related to inaccuracies in the non imaging areas of the film that are fed by the printer. Sounds more like hardware/firmware to me although a rip could be set to instruct the printer not to feed which would resolve the issue in the same way that printing a line on the sides of all films would. All of these are workarounds for poor hardware/firmware/software/media that is not qualified to do the job at hand.
Jamisun- keep on epson, they will buy the unit back. It'll take a lot of repetitive conversations ad nauseum but they know all about the fact that some of these units cannot do the job they are being sold specifically to do. As you suspect, the comment that no other epson printer will be able to print same length films is a bald faced lie. Even if it were true then what the hell are they doing selling it as a printer package for films? Just escalate it up and someone will get it taken care of. "
Zoo City- Thank you. Speaking to a supervisor now- and will go up the EPSON Chain further if needed. They are talking about buying back the printer... which doesn't really necessarily help me. I need a reliable printer for out putting film- I thought that would be EPSON. We are in the market for a new printer regardless because our shop is growing and we would like to have two for out putting film- which is why the t-3270 had so much appeal- it could output film and work as a really nice large format color printer. Is there a printer that you would recommend?
-
"my thinking is the with FM, the RIP is actually doing the feeding rather than the printer. If this is the case, it would eliminate the issues.
pierre"
Pierre- Thank you. I recreated the problem using only the Epson driver - that eliminated AR as the culprit. We use all Apple in our art department- but I am taking a look at Film Maker. I appreciate any and all suggestions.
-
I was in the exact same spot you are in Jamisun and having no satisfactory solution for film printing I went ahead an moved us to CTS. It's a huge jump in cost from film printing and I didn't really want to do it but after that experience with the T3270 it was time to move to something industry specific. Shame because the T3270 could and should be a workhorse printer for film.
-
"my thinking is the with FM, the RIP is actually doing the feeding rather than the printer. If this is the case, it would eliminate the issues.
pierre"
Pierre- Thank you. I recreated the problem using only the Epson driver - that eliminated AR as the culprit. We use all Apple in our art department- but I am taking a look at Film Maker. I appreciate any and all suggestions.
Hey Jamisun, actually no, that would confirm the AR issue as AR uses the EPSON driver. AR does not work unless the driver for the printer is installed. FM will work without the EPSON driver. That tells me that FM is using their own drivers and AR is using EPSON.
pierre
-
Pierre, Thank you- I did not realize the AR used the Epson driver- but wouldn't that just point at the Epson driver- since it is used in both situations with the same results? I am certainly by no means familiar with all of the technical aspects. I know that in dealing with EPSON in the past I was always incredibly happy with the results. But this issue at first seemed like there were too many variables and it took me forever to figure out what consistently triggered the problem... and as I said- this only happens where there is an area in the channel where the design has a particular space where the printer feeds- so if the AR or even the EPSON driver is directing the printer to feed at a different rate than the printer prints- that could be the problem. I just thought that when I didn't use the AR and just used the EPSOn driver- I had ruled out the AR. Our print technician that came here for EPSON seemed to think so.
-
Pierre, Thank you- I did not realize the AR used the Epson driver- but wouldn't that just point at the Epson driver- since it is used in both situations with the same results? I am certainly by no means familiar with all of the technical aspects. I know that in dealing with EPSON in the past I was always incredibly happy with the results. But this issue at first seemed like there were too many variables and it took me forever to figure out what consistently triggered the problem... and as I said- this only happens where there is an area in the channel where the design has a particular space where the printer feeds- so if the AR or even the EPSON driver is directing the printer to feed at a different rate than the printer prints- that could be the problem. I just thought that when I didn't use the AR and just used the EPSOn driver- I had ruled out the AR. Our print technician that came here for EPSON seemed to think so.
well, in a way, yes it is EPSON's fault. AR is not causing it, but by being tied to the defective EPSON driver it is a defective solution. EPSON would have to rewrite their drivers and fix the issues. Until then, AR will do what it's doing.
My suggestion would be to find somebody who has the same printer and then go through every single line of settings to make sure you match them. You'll have to check the firmware versions, OS and so on. In theory, you should be able to copy their configuration line for line and then not have the problem. I've had to do that with FM for some ppl when they could not get it to work. It did fix the problems in my case.
FM might be the solution. It would not be a waste of money as it is a better RIP so you could consider it an upgrade. Wasatch probably uses their own driver too, but you would have to check that out.
Scott Fresner (runs a banner on top) is an expert on this stuff. You could reach out to him for help and if everything works buy the RIP from him.
pierre
-
I was in the exact same spot you are in Jamisun and having no satisfactory solution for film printing I went ahead an moved us to CTS. It's a huge jump in cost from film printing and I didn't really want to do it but after that experience with the T3270 it was time to move to something industry specific. Shame because the T3270 could and should be a workhorse printer for film.
Thank you ZooCity- I really appreciate it. I talked with my boss about that and he has considered it- but a couple things about the CTS solution are not looking as favorable as film. We do a large volume of reorders and he likes having the film handy for reorders- and also when a screen blows out on press- you have to reprint a whole new one... I like the idea of it after this whole ordeal- but we'll just have to see. It looks awesome to me really. Are you very happy with CTS?
The T-3270 still makes gorgeous full color prints- everything done full color on that printer has been what I expect from EPSON- I don't think this printer is made for screen printers.
-
I was in the exact same spot you are in Jamisun and having no satisfactory solution for film printing I went ahead an moved us to CTS. It's a huge jump in cost from film printing and I didn't really want to do it but after that experience with the T3270 it was time to move to something industry specific. Shame because the T3270 could and should be a workhorse printer for film.
Thank you ZooCity- I really appreciate it. I talked with my boss about that and he has considered it- but a couple things about the CTS solution are not looking as favorable as film. We do a large volume of reorders and he likes having the film handy for reorders- and also when a screen blows out on press- you have to reprint a whole new one... I like the idea of it after this whole ordeal- but we'll just have to see. It looks awesome to me really. Are you very happy with CTS?
The T-3270 still makes gorgeous full color prints- everything done full color on that printer has been what I expect from EPSON- I don't think this printer is made for screen printers.
Very happy with CTS. They image fast enough, even at the slow uni-d settings we run at that re-imaging a screen should take a similar amount of time as film and you will be exposing faster with no glass. We do a good grip of re-orders as well and I still like it better than film.
That said, CTS needs to make sense for your shop. It's a quality of life upgrade for anyone but it may not have the right roi for everyone v. film.