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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: Dottonedan on August 13, 2021, 05:04:04 PM
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The work on the Tee Shirt street is that INK purchases are like soup in NY. It will be restricted very soon. I’m told all brands, but who knows? Could be only Wilfex, Union, Rutland, and er I mean PolyOne. Wait...whats the new name? yea, that one.
One pint for you...and One pint for you...and
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
https://youtu.be/svSGKJFSl-8 (https://youtu.be/svSGKJFSl-8)
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I am assuming this is a plastisol thing / plastics. Water base printers maybe fair better? I hope so. Colin? Paging Colin. Come in Sir
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not soon, but already happening.
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Indeed, many/most of us are or will be restricted to app 75% of previous purchase history. So....conserve, convert, and communicate!
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Indeed, many/most of us are or will be restricted to app 75% of previous purchase history. So....conserve, convert, and communicate!
One of our suppliers said the same thing. His question to them was "You only shipped 50% of what we ordered now you are saying we are only going to get 75% of the 50% you shipped previously?"
The world has gone insane.
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not soon, but already happening.
True. Got notification from Avient a couple of weeks ago that ink purchases will be restricted to a certain value.
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doesn't really matter though, we won't have anything to print on anyway with all these shortages...
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doesn't really matter though, we won't have anything to print on anyway with all these shortages...
To say nothing of the potential for a lot fewer clients.
Not only do dead men not wear plaid, they don't order our freakin' T-Shirts!
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I mentioned conversion above. Some mixing software systems offer color conversion apps (example 102 yellow to 123 gold). This may help some however since I have yet to try it the jury is out as to accuracy. Before software existed we did this all by eye, royal to navy, forest to hunter etc. Generally speaking it is usually more difficult to lighten a hue but not impossible. Old school color theory still applies: we tint with white, shade with black, and change hue intensity with color. For some, this might help to convert less used inks into core colors. Time to get creative and make best use of what is on hand. My uneducated guess is that white, base, mixing system components, and core colors will be the manufacturing focus and specialty ink products may come to a halt for the short term if not longer.
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Received this notification from Avient in early August this year.
“ At Avient we appreciate the value of supply continuity for you and the customers you serve. We are in an unprecedented period of supply chain disruption in many businesses. Multiple suppliers have declared Force Majeure on key raw materials. As the underlying reasons for the force majeure declarations are industry wide, alternate raw material suppliers face the same challenging conditions.
In response, Avient has a team of professionals in procurement, supply chain, and logistics who are working diligently to minimize the impact of these events. We remain in ongoing communications with our raw material suppliers and logistics partners. Still, certain aspects are not within our control as our raw material suppliers manage these same issues.
At this point we do know that shortages of raw materials will affect our production capabilities in the coming months. To mitigate the impact on our customers, Avient must implement the following temporary changes in distributing products:
1. Existing orders (orders placed before 7/30) will be filled. Delivery dates are estimates, and the timeline for delivery will remain extended.
2. As to new orders, we anticipate the following:
Effective immediately, Avient is limiting each customer’s purchases to 75% of the dollar value of your January through June 2021 average monthly shipments. This means that each month’s orders will not exceed this average monthly value.
This limit only applies to shipments out of our Kennesaw, GA and Widnes, UK facilities. ”
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Everyone is having trouble. I wanted to try out some Monarch and the dealers I talked to all said Monarch's behind and sending out split shipments, and the suppliers aren't even sure what's on them. This isn't to crap on Monarch, but yeah....everyone is hurting. I wanted to get some more Aquarius in and supplier is out of discharge base. I waited 3 months from Nazdar to get some Maroon PC pigment. Midwest sent me a Fiver of Epic Top Score LC base and I wanted just the standard LC base. I was gonna return the top score, but Midwest said they're out of the other....I'm keeping the top score for sure. Seems to be lots of Matsui out there so might be doing more WB.
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
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from January to June we were printing on two of our five autos. now that we have four out of five presses staffed - it now sounds like we can only buy 75 percent of our previous purchases. that means i need twice as much ink but can only buy enough for 1 3/4...
the company i work for prints for Broadway shows, TV shows and musicians. now that everything is opening back up on broadway and bands are touring we have been printing like crazy. instead of ordering by the 5g i need to order by the 30g but cant because my suppliers dont have stock and dont know when they will be restocked... it was an interesting conversation with one of the owners when i told them i couldn't buy ink.
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We just got hit with the same. Nazdar allowed us to order a gal of Wilflex PC but that's it until September.
Lucky that we mix 99% of our inks in house and are stocked deep in PC but, if this goes on into the busy season, we're worried about base and whites for sure.
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it was an interesting conversation with one of the owners when i told them i couldn't buy ink.
LOL, at this point I'm sure nothing is surprising.
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This is all getting so tiresome. I've got enough of everything to last untill well into 22' but at the rate we're going it will just be worse then.
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This is all getting so tiresome. I've got enough of everything to last untill well into 22' but at the rate we're going it will just be worse then.
this!!! we bought 6 months worth of ink thinking it would be over by then. Now we are shopping for another 6 months worth.
pierre
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not to be a jerk, but this is a great time to be a waterbased printer!
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I agree.
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This is all getting so tiresome. I've got enough of everything to last untill well into 22' but at the rate we're going it will just be worse then.
this!!! we bought 6 months worth of ink thinking it would be over by then. Now we are shopping for another 6 months worth.
pierre
Sadly we operate more on order as needed. Not so much to keep the COGS down but we are limited on space. It is the one thing that keeps me from pulling the trigger on a mixing system SPACE.
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Talking about it will create more shortages.
See for example TP shortage last year.
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This is just plan ole crazy, if we are not careful there is going to be empty buildings everywhere, hard to keep your chin up when it keeps getting hit!!!
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We are mostly water-based so we wont be as affected as some of the other smaller printers. We did order about 50 gallons form them including Epic Rio Maxi mixing kit in December that never got delivered so we cant even order any ink now. All this says is that this ink supplier couldn't give a rats behind about the little guy. I know its a business decision but it still stinks. Hope printers will remember. I know I will.
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Got 15 gallons of ink in today. Need another 15 of white, 5 of black and maybe 10 more of the more popular colors and I'll be good to go for 5-6 months. I'm gonna pass on DC and WB until I'm forced to go there. All the cool kids can have at it.
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I do think water base for some reason, is “The cool thing". yes, feels better. But that’s the only benefit I see over plastisol. From what the water base printers have said about it, it’s more efficient, more production friendly to use Plastisol and may even cost less in the end. Sim process separations are more challenging on darks.Production is more challenging, So I don’t get why it’s so popular.
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i don't think it's the "cool thing". it's the way the rest of the world prints for a reason.
You can also hide alot more mistakes by printing with plastisol.
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This part of this thread is now a different and good topic. Might need split.
i don't think it's the "cool thing". it's the way the rest of the world prints for a reason.
You can also hide alot more mistakes by printing with plastisol.
I’m not sure I follow the direction. Is that post above ANTI or PRO water base?
Two things on that if you are saying that the rest of the world prints water base.
1, The rest of the world would mean (the smaller percentage) of todays shops. MOST shops are still Plastisol and by a large percentage. Guessing, would be near 70% or more.
This info is partly based on what I see in the industry and the number of separations I go through for other printers. I’d say I have 2% that are water base printers. Of the NEW CUSTOMERS the contact me, 99% are Plastisol printers. So a large portion of my findings are from real world experiences. I would not imagine that it’s only that all waterbase printers just do their own seps. Lastly, the percentage number also comes from industry suppliers.
2, That’s what I’d love to get to know about. What is that reason ?
I’ve gotten feedback from you, and maybe 3-4 other water base printers on HOW water base has been run. The challenges etc. So far, from what I remember in the post on this forum, is that it doesn’t seem to be “better than” Plastisol in terms of production and cost. Is that only good reasons (the hand)? It’s not an argument, It’s more of a fact finding discussion. I considered going water base here at our shop but when we discussed it last...I changed my mind.
A positive for water base is, there is less dot gain with water base. The negative of separating water base is the blending to create other color accurately. It’s much more challenging (get that nailed down just right) to know what you are going to get...with waterbase. But I imagine that if I worked in a water base shop, I’d pick that up quick enough like I did Plastisol. YOU for example, are a great water base printer. But it’s taken you a very long time to get that “great water base shop”status. I think “great printer”status can come faster for plastisol shops.
The printing part of it is more challenging in production than Plastisol This info, is only (based on what the water base printers themselves) have told us Plastisol printers.
Anything to elaborate on? Im also no expert on the subject, but from what I remember, it’s also not as eco friendly as people once thought.
Is is that Water base is just a little more eco friendly then plastisol and that is the main reason? Is it really a little more?
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I tried to order a few gallons of ink yesterday and found out they didn't have the color's I wanted, the supplier told me he had ordered 20K worth of ink and getting
it in drips here and there, so he is backed up on getting ink out the door, plus some companies have really jacked up there prices. What's going to happen is we will cause our own problems by trying to stock up on inks and backing up suppliers, and yes I understand everyone wants to have what they need to keep rolling since it's already tough enough now to get shirts and orders out the door.
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We used to get maybe a few requests a month for WB or Discharge. I bet its 2-3 a year max now. That fad died a bit in my experience. I can't even think of but 1 request this year so far. We aren't changing any time soon.
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We used to get maybe a few requests a month for WB or Discharge. I bet its 2-3 a year max now. That fad died a bit in my experience. I can't even think of but 1 request this year so far. We aren't changing any time soon.
This is where we are. I occasionally try them out, each time to realize why I love plastisol. Also, having frankly more ink than I will use in a lifetime in certain colors doesn't make me want to abandon that system. We got several pallets of ink for free with one of our used press purchases.
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From my understanding WB is much more utilized around the world than here.
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We used to get maybe a few requests a month for WB or Discharge. I bet its 2-3 a year max now. That fad died a bit in my experience. I can't even think of but 1 request this year so far. We aren't changing any time soon.
Think of your niche customer, they know the brand of oil in their car, but I couldn't tell you anything about how my truck runs.
Now think if your niche was working with retail brands following fashion trends, or wanting to be eco-friendly, or Nike or Adidas pushing PVC Free and PVC Free Plastisol is a bad product.
We get requests from customers constantly for water base or discharge as our customers are in the shirt business, your niche so it seems is motor heads getting a car on a shirt, they don't need to know or care about what ink, just want to them what is a good product.
If I printed for your demographic I wouldn't do water base, it'd be a nightmare and you probably couldn't do most of the work you do with the presses you have as it's too small for the high color work you do, not enough cool down, flash stations.
However I only practically sell water base as that's what I prefer and I sell / push what I like. It's harder, cost more, has more waste product, but creates a higher end product in my mind that I charge more for, and the customers pay it happily. We take 3 screens to do a "one color" white, but it looks / feels / washes / lasts damn good.
Our shop is probably like 70/30 plastisol to water base, however water base is growing constantly as 100% it's a better end product. Our problem is now we need a bigger press, or to get better at wet on wet / heat control. Anyone can do both, there are challenges to both, but I try to put out the best product that I can stand behind and for me it's water base hands down. Also can do water base and plastisol together nicely as well, there are no rules it has to be one or the other.
Nice boat by the way! Boat life is the best life.
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From my understanding WB is much more utilized around the world than here.
Look at the equipment or lack of equipment they use, some of those inks are perfect for them...table printing with one printer per screen hauling butt.
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WB/DC is a B!tch to learn, especially if you are hitting Pantone colors like we do. It takes more time until you build the knowledge and a good reference for mixing colors. It just sucks and you really need to WANT to do it. After you learn it, plastisol sucks. Everything about it, the feel, how damn messy it is, clean up, mixing colors, dot gain, the list goes on, and now not getting it?! Only positive I really can think of about plastisol is setting something up and leaving it. I miss that. I've many times wondered what would of happened if we didn't make the deep dive into learning DC, guessing we would be making more money and less stressed! ;D Once you switch or are at least majority WB/DC to the point you have systems in place for it, I have to say the clean up is just amazing.
Question for those getting the ink buying restrictions, is it only coming from Avient? We still use some plastisol(mainly white and Ath Gold) for a few jobs here and there, but we haven't used anything under the Avient umbrella for probably 3 years now. Either we buy so little we are irrelevant(probably) or other companies are not giving the same restriction?