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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: 3Deep on April 10, 2014, 02:57:29 PM
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CCI rep Michael Hunt stop by the shop yesterday and drop me off a few samples, and one was a qt of Prochem HXT....I will say this about the stuff it drop my exposure from 3 minutes to 1 mintues with a 50 LPI halftone on 230 white mesh and this on and older point light unit not bad. You it makes me wonder sometimes if there samples aren't really jacked up to do really good then you buy the gal and it sucks not that ole Micheal and CCI would do this, but this stuff works way better than the QX1 I'm using now. He also said that this HXT can be use straight out the can for DC, and waterbase with a little hardener wipe on it, I think some of you might already use this stuff.
Darryl
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Hope he never goes by "Mike" :)
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Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!
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D, that stuff has a very wiiiiiiiiiiiiide exposure latitude for sure! Hit it longer in your unit if you want to discharge with it and it will hold up like a soldier, that's the trick with that stuff. Slow coat to avoid pin holes. We love it for discharge printing!!!!!
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...Mike and I worked at the same shop for a while, before he got into sales. When I started at that place and were introduced, the owner (a female), said " Sean, this is Mike Hunt". I was sure I was falling for some cruel hazing joke, but nope....That's really Mike Hunt!!!
;D
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Darryl have you ever tried the PFX-HV or the Ryonet HI-FI(same stuff). If so how does this compare. I recently got 2 gallons and I have to get the humidity in the lower 30's. Something has changed and it temperamental. I thought maybe old but has a fresh date. Ordered before freezing temps. I went and pick up the CCI branded and same thing. Looks like its back to Saati Chem PHU.
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Hxt use with diazo work best for water based. Without diazo its cracks
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@ sben763 nope hadn't use that stuff before, but I did use a diazo brand from CCI and did not like it at all, it jelled up on me in like 3 months even storing in the frig, so I 'm back with Image mate 521 very good stuff and last a long time.
Darryl
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Hxt use with diazo work best for water based. Without diazo its cracks
Dude, you aren't exposing it long enough!!! Over 100 gallons have been used here, never breaks down, surly never cracks.
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electrcity rate too high in pakistan. 3000 wats 7 minutes cost 25 dollar.
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electrcity rate too high in pakistan. 3000 wats 7 minutes cost 25 dollar.
i would be using the sun and call it a day.
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Wow!
Time to look into LED!
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electrcity rate too high in pakistan. 3000 wats 7 minutes cost 25 dollar.
WOW that is crazy, so sorry to hear that. Man, need to find you a super super fast exposer than!!! Maybe look into the LED unit for the future, or go CTS and use the sun.
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I tried the HTX from a small sample a rep dropped off. I was hoping for much more from the emulsion after hearing good things here:( In it's defense we were only given a qt. so it was harder to judge...
We have actually began using the Murakami SP-1400 lately and really liking it!
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The only thing I can think of that anyone is having an issue with is not exposing it long enough. I just loaded up a screen that has been used in production 4 times, probably 2,000 or so strokes on it, washed out with the pressure cleaner all 4 times, tape removed and re-taped and the stencil is still perfect. When I say exposing long, I mean way long. Like triple the amount of time, but truly, if you have good luck with another emulsion for WB go with what works for you. After some emails with Alan B from Murikami, he thinks that our 3k tri-light is the reason that we couldn't have success with HVP/diazo. I guess 6k or higher to get the proper cross link with that stuff. Out of everything we tried though, for our exposure unit, either HXT or Nova with diazo is currently our choice. I haven't had any huge discharge orders to warrant the use of Nova right now, anything under 1,000 piece order I'm totally confident with HXT. I just wish other's were able to have the success with it that we're having. I just tried another emulsion in place of Chromablue for plastisol printing, but it was an epic fail. The sample sent was great, but then getting in the big pail of it, lot's of issues, so back to Chromablue. I guess you find the product that works best in your environment and stick to it. So much time can be lost as well as money and headaches tyring something else when what you had was just perfect.
Back to the HXT. Another thing in there with our exposures to consider is that we are using a DTS. So there is obviously no film or glass to contend with. Maybe that is a big factor that we dont' even consider with the successful final stencil. I've exposed it in the sun too, amazing with the I-Image how there was zero undercutting and the stencil held up awesome!! No issues.
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I am gonna coat a few screens with it and YOU will do the exposure on Friday Mike, how does that sound?
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Awesome, looking forward to seeing you guys!
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Funny that you say that Screenprintguy, I've wonder about samples to as I got some qt sample that works really well until I get a gal or two and they are night and day.
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It was weird Darryl. I mean this one emulsion we tried, the quart sample coated great, exposed great, washed out great, held up on press great, reclaimed great. Got a 5 gal in, coated fine, exposures were way different, actually some odd reactions the next day checking washed out screens on the drying rack where the emulsion was bubbling like pimples on the shirt side of the screen. Did some contact through the channels, told to bump up exposure time, did that, but them images were very hard to wash out even after a long soak in the water tank. Then lots of pinholes which we never had with Chromablue, the pinholes might have been from having to beat at it to get the image washed out. Then when reclaiming, man, it was like reclaiming screens that had hardener. A same batch of reclaimed screens were also coated with Chromablue, and had no issues, so I'm tending to think it was a bad batch. Maybe froze at some point, not sure, things happen, but the time and effort and issues was a clear hint to go back to Chromablue for our plastisol use emulsion. I was trying to be cheap and save 10 bucks a gallon but that didn't save, ended up costing a bit.
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OOps wrong post.
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Mike -what exposure unit are you using on this stuff? I was talking with a few people about the wr-14 and i want to give it a try with our LED unit, but we are being steered towards the HXT...LED is a whole nother animal I think, not too sure if this HXT will be the ticket or not.
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We are using a 3k Tri-Light. I did some screens yesterday with HXT, 3 over 1 coating on 125 mesh, shot them at 600 LU, for this unit that's roughly 6 mins I believe. Remember for us, no glass or film using the I-Image. 1200 piece discharge run, double strokes, and zero breakdown or signs of wear after the wash out of the screen.
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We are using a 3k Tri-Light. I did some screens yesterday with HXT, 3 over 1 coating on 125 mesh, shot them at 600 LU, for this unit that's roughly 6 mins I believe. Remember for us, no glass or film using the I-Image. 1200 piece discharge run, double strokes, and zero breakdown or signs of wear after the wash out of the screen.
Why 3/1? Your printing discharge right? Is that with the rounded side of the coater? I do 2/1 with the sharp side and I have no break down with discharge. PhotoSharp 1000K exposed for 75 seconds. This emulsion has a huge window for exposure. I have done 150 seconds and it still washed out fine. The 75 seconds exposure time I have printed over 500 double stroke DC with no break down. I do have really dark film so that may play a part it the reason I can expose with such a large window.
Again why are you building a thick stencil to print waterbase? Not questioning you as much as trying to see if there is a benefit I am missing.
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Honestly my cci rep told me to go to 3/1 from the 2/1 we were doing. we were having an occasional pinhole issue. We went through making sure our screens were super clean, they were, he said try the 3/1. since then, no pin holes. It has low solids so I guess that may be a reason, not totally sure, but even with the 3/1 round edge, the stencil isn't nearly as thick as a 1/1 chromablue coated screen with the round edge. I have no idea how you are able to pull those times off with the photosharp 1k, but you can and that's awesome!!! I think we've had this chat before and you are in a very dry dry location right? We constantly battle humidity here, even with dehumidifiers, today is 80% in the shop.
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Honestly my cci rep told me to go to 3/1 from the 2/1 we were doing. we were having an occasional pinhole issue. We went through making sure our screens were super clean, they were, he said try the 3/1. since then, no pin holes. It has low solids so I guess that may be a reason, not totally sure, but even with the 3/1 round edge, the stencil isn't nearly as thick as a 1/1 chromablue coated screen with the round edge. I have no idea how you are able to pull those times off with the photosharp 1k, but you can and that's awesome!!! I think we've had this chat before and you are in a very dry dry location right? We constantly battle humidity here, even with dehumidifiers, today is 80% in the shop.
I have tried about 5 of CCI emulsions and this is the first one that I have no (well almost no) pin holes. I did add a whole house filter to my water in the washout booth. I think that played a big part in it. I have not measured my stencil with HXT. I don't think its to much thinner than it was with Aquasol HV. I am on my 6th or seventh gallon of HXT. I honestly am very happy with it. With Aquasol HV I was exposing screens at 20-35 seconds. I am in Arizona so my shop is very dry. Out of all the screens I have done with HXT I have only had 2 break downs. Both screens were not dryed over night. They were coated and then dryed for a hour flat in the screen rack then a half hour in front of a fan. I needed them. I usually let screens dry over night. I know my stencil thicknesses are less then most on here so that plays a part too. Honestly I would not use any emulsion that was longer than 2 mins exposure. I am easily distracted and waiting on the exposure unit drivers me nuts.
Do you filter your washout booth water? If not give that a try. My shop has horrible water.
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Water filter sounds interesting man!!! Our water is pretty nasty in Polk county, sometimes we can see marks on the screen mesh from the water that ran down after standing the screens up to dry. Maybe there is some nasty crud in the water itself. Seeing how you could tell a noticable difference from trying to expose a screen coated in the same day vs drying over night prooves this stuff needs to be dry as a bone. I just checked my room where my screens store and even with the ac and dehumidifier running its still 55% today :(. Constant battle with humidity. I'm glad to hear the emulsion is working for you though, it is great when all is dialed in. I need to get ahold of an EOM meter to see where I am.
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This is the kind of filter that I have on mine. I have it hooked up before the hose and the pressure washer so all the water gets filtered. Its cheap like $40 at home depot. It uses RO filters.
I think I luck out on alot of things being in a hot dry area.
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Water filter sounds interesting man!!! Our water is pretty nasty in Polk county, sometimes we can see marks on the screen mesh from the water that ran down after standing the screens up to dry. Maybe there is some nasty crud in the water itself. Seeing how you could tell a noticable difference from trying to expose a screen coated in the same day vs drying over night prooves this stuff needs to be dry as a bone. I just checked my room where my screens store and even with the ac and dehumidifier running its still 55% today :(. Constant battle with humidity. I'm glad to hear the emulsion is working for you though, it is great when all is dialed in. I need to get ahold of an EOM meter to see where I am.
Standing screens to dry=set up for failure. Horizontal= better
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Water filter sounds interesting man!!! Our water is pretty nasty in Polk county, sometimes we can see marks on the screen mesh from the water that ran down after standing the screens up to dry. Maybe there is some nasty crud in the water itself. Seeing how you could tell a noticable difference from trying to expose a screen coated in the same day vs drying over night prooves this stuff needs to be dry as a bone. I just checked my room where my screens store and even with the ac and dehumidifier running its still 55% today :(. Constant battle with humidity. I'm glad to hear the emulsion is working for you though, it is great when all is dialed in. I need to get ahold of an EOM meter to see where I am.
Standing screens to dry=set up for failure. Horizontal= better
Just had 4 new screen racks show up today, so that we can stop doing that!! Now we can dry flat ;D
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Tony do you mean drying coated screens? I have dryed decreased screens vertical ever since a started printing.
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Not saying its wrong but they will dry more even and a bit quicker. And if screens aren't washed out permanently contaminated water can cause fisheyes. We have a "clean sink" that uses no chemicals, water only. Horizontal drying in all steps is a preventative measure.
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I will try it out.
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Hmm something to try myself, I've always dried my exposed and washed out screens vertical well, never thought about laying them flat.
Darryl
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between the new screen carts for drying horizontal, and adding the water filter that Jon recommends, I hope we can get that possibility resolved. I want to turn our current booth into a recirculating chem only booth for de-inking, I saw Dirkdiggler's set up this past weekend, pretty nice. Same Screen Klean Systems booth as we have, but he has the self contained ink degrader recirculation system on it, and then a larger booth on the other side for wash out. I think I'd like 2 more actually, one that would be totally water only for rinsing out images and final rinsing in reclaiming, hey I'd love to hit the lotto too while we are at it. lol.