TSB
Computers and Software => Separation Programs => Topic started by: prozyan on August 12, 2012, 04:06:51 PM
-
Recently, Tom at Advanced Artist released SimpleSeps Raster (http://advancedtshirts.com/products/simpleseps-raster.html (http://advancedtshirts.com/products/simpleseps-raster.html)), which he touts as a way to separate any image within Corel Draw. I read up on it and decided to give it a whirl to see how things worked out.
In a nutshell, it works by separating the image down to an HSB (hue, saturation, brightness) extract, then producing separations from there, which results in plates for an underbase white, highlight white, black, green, yellow, magenta, red, blue, and cyan. From there, you can begin reducing your colors to suit your needs. Its an interesting method.
For my test, I set out to test three things:
1. Ease of use
2. Accuracy
3. Does the program do what Tom says it will.
Since ease of use was one thing I wanted to test, I limited myself to three of the multiple video tutorials Tom offers on the program and also decided I wouldn't tweak the separations the program generated. I'd just go with the raw output.
So with these parameters in mind, off I went to google images to find a crappy jpg to toss at the program. Here is what I picked:
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/prozyan/Vader_1.jpg)
This was a typical jpg, 72dpi, etc, etc. I imported this into Draw X6, resampled it to 800dpi at final size, ported it to photopaint, added some blur to soften the lines, then resampled again down to 200dpi. This gave me not great art to work with but something that was at least manageable. Then I ran it through the SimpleSeps Raster program. After about 7 minutes total, I had the final separated image broken down into four monochrome images: Black, red, yellow, and cyan. Looking at the monochromes, I could tell they could use some tweaking, but I stuck to my rules and didn't touch them. Sent them through Accurip at 55lpi, 22.5 angle, and made my screens.
I wasn't going to mix ink colors for what was a simple test, so I used standard union colors. Golden yellow for the yellow, scarlet red for the red and bright blue for the cyan. I wasn't expecting much, considering separations really follow the "Garbage in, Garbage out" rule, and the file I gave it was pretty crappy. Here was the print result, taken with my crappy cell phone camera:
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/prozyan/2012-08-12131104.jpg)
Seeing the final result I can tell where the monochromes needed to be tweaked. The cyan and yellow both need to be pulled back some. I got quite a bit of yellow pollution is areas that should have been white, which I think resulted in a duller print than it should have been. Also, if I had used colors actually called for, especially the cyan and probably at least a primrose yellow if not a process yellow, the result would have been better. All in all however, considering all of 25 minutes was spent on setting this up, I was impressed. I think the result was comparable to what any other separation program on the market would have generated. Keep in mind, this was the raw data the program generated. I spent no time adjusting or tweaking the result.
So, for the final verdict:
1. Ease of use. Check, this was extremely easy to use. It would take some time to learn the ins and outs of the program, but that is true for any program.
2. Accuracy. Check again, with some tweaking to the raw results.
3. Does the program do what Tom says it will do. Check. It works exactly as advertised. I dunno if this program means the death of Adobe products as the industry standard as Tom has claimed in other places, but it is an effective and powerful addition to Draw.
SimpleSeps Raster, like all automatic separation programs, can never take the place of a human separator, but we all know it is impractical to send every piece out to a separator. Priced at $249.99, I think SimpleSeps Raster would be a worthwhile addition to any small shop.
-
Thanks for the testing and input.
-
GREAT write up! Thank you very much for taking the time to do this. . .
pierre
-
I watched all the videos on his site and it is pretty damn interesting the way he does it and the way the program works.
I love the idea of having a sepped element that you can change the colors on at any time makes laying out much easier.
My concern which will probably keep me from ever buying it is Corel. Corel is just to damn buggy and unstable I wont trust any thing in it any more. I have Toms design base add on and it gives me fits asit is with Corel.
What i wish some one here would do is explain HSB theory and how it works? I am totally at a loss as to what is happening when he executes a seperation. In another forum he is stating that Sim Process is the wrong way to sep and HSB is because of color theory/tech. Not saying he is incorrect so i would love to here from a guru or someone what the hell HSB is and how it works.
-
Very nice test. I wish I still had my shop for this exact reason. One thing I want to mention is you talking about the yellow polluting the white areas. Using that exact image, sample the colors in Photoshop or any raster program. You will see it is not true white, thus the "yellow polluting". Our eyes see it as white yet in truth it is not white. You nailed it though and with this and any other separation program out there you will always need to tweak and edit after running the actions, scripts, etc. This test just shows that these programs will never be 100% accurate and will always require additional knowledge to yield an award winning separation.
Learn to do these type of separations manually and then you can use these progs to help speed the process or your prints / seps will look like everyone else's out there.
-
I watched all the videos on his site and it is pretty damn interesting the way he does it and the way the program works.
I love the idea of having a sepped element that you can change the colors on at any time makes laying out much easier.
My concern which will probably keep me from ever buying it is Corel. Corel is just to damn buggy and unstable I wont trust any thing in it any more. I have Toms design base add on and it gives me fits asit is with Corel.
What i wish some one here would do is explain HSB theory and how it works? I am totally at a loss as to what is happening when he executes a seperation. In another forum he is stating that Sim Process is the wrong way to sep and HSB is because of color theory/tech. Not saying he is incorrect so i would love to here from a guru or someone what the hell HSB is and how it works.
This will get you started, I just found it yesterday. He has other videos to explain the background knowledge necessary to understand what they are talking about...
Real-Time Color-Separations with the FREE Full-Spectrum HSB Smart-Filter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPBHDKm0ZAs#ws)
Steve
-
Prozyan
Thanks for posting the excellent review 8) Your time, effort, support and test is sincerely appriciated.
-
I'm planning on doing a more accurate test either Friday or Saturday, where I take the time to adjust the seps, colors, etc, as well as using a better starting graphic.
-
Hi tom is good to have you aboard
there are a lot of printers using your tools here
I`m one of them
sincerily
Gabe
-
Hi tom is good to have you aboard
there are a lot of printers using your tools here
I`m one of them
sincerily
Gabe
Hi Gabe,
Thanks for the warm welcom. I was not aware of this forum until I found the post on SSR in Google.
-
I too have everything from Tom, except this program. . are there any trial runs of it Tom? I'd give it a go.
-
Along with Tom's programs is his personal attention to his customers, I recently upgraded to CD X6 64 bit and had lots of trouble in installing his programs that I have purchased. With a few emails and little downloading I am back in business with all the AA programs except the one that is on this post but it is coming soon!!!! It is the best bang for the buck that is out there for any corel users. :D
-
I too have everything from Tom, except this program. . are there any trial runs of it Tom? I'd give it a go.
I am working tryint to decide between a time limit trial and a watermarkets in the seps trial. Flip a coin I guess.
-
time trial, that way people can actually use it on a job
-
I watched all the videos on his site and it is pretty damn interesting the way he does it and the way the program works.
I love the idea of having a sepped element that you can change the colors on at any time makes laying out much easier.
My concern which will probably keep me from ever buying it is Corel. Corel is just to damn buggy and unstable I wont trust any thing in it any more. I have Toms design base add on and it gives me fits asit is with Corel.
What i wish some one here would do is explain HSB theory and how it works? I am totally at a loss as to what is happening when he executes a seperation. In another forum he is stating that Sim Process is the wrong way to sep and HSB is because of color theory/tech. Not saying he is incorrect so i would love to here from a guru or someone what the hell HSB is and how it works.
This will get you started, I just found it yesterday. He has other videos to explain the background knowledge necessary to understand what they are talking about...
Real-Time Color-Separations with the FREE Full-Spectrum HSB Smart-Filter ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPBHDKm0ZAs#ws[/url])
Steve
I don't know if it's my feeble mind or the creator of that vid but it was way over my head and like pulling teeth watching it! That said thanks for the link it explained some of HSB but still leaves me in the dark as to how you get seps from it.
-
thank you very much Steve, that video has helped allot!
I believe he is explaining HSB and how to use the faux HSB mode he
created (he provides a link to a .psd file that has the smart object
embedded in it to optimize creating the HSB. Once you have the image
in the faux HSB mode you can then color separate from there by
extracting colors. To extract one of the colors of HSB you use
Select>Color range. in the color range options, it can pull any of the
HSB colors (Red, Yellow, Green, Cyan, Blue, Magenta (by default it's
on select:Sampled Colors).
I'm still learning about this approach and find it very interesting...
not sure if i'm on the right track even... but i'm definitely learning
new things :)
-
Just a little update SimpleSeps Raster 1.2 is on deck.. Updates will be free.
Sneak Peek of SimpleSeps Raster Click Seps Functionality Better Than Simulated Process (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwnjVms5UQA#ws)
SimpleSeps Raster Click Seps Feature Sneak Peek 3 Simulated Process Separations with 2 colors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UYyfi4-EG8#ws)
Some sneak peeks. Should be out in a week to 10 days. The sneak peek only reveals a scratch on the surface of the actual update.
-
Um, yeah, so I have now printed 2 jobs with simple seps raster. Effing amazing program. I have the 3rd one going up later this week. It's a 5 color on sand. It is so much easier to work with these files in corel. Amazingly easy to add text, and other elements.
I am really looking forward to the next update. I will try and snap a photo of the next print job, I think that one will be even better than the first 2.
-
I watched all the videos on his site and it is pretty damn interesting the way he does it and the way the program works.
I love the idea of having a sepped element that you can change the colors on at any time makes laying out much easier.
My concern which will probably keep me from ever buying it is Corel. Corel is just to damn buggy and unstable I wont trust any thing in it any more. I have Toms design base add on and it gives me fits asit is with Corel.
What i wish some one here would do is explain HSB theory and how it works? I am totally at a loss as to what is happening when he executes a seperation. In another forum he is stating that Sim Process is the wrong way to sep and HSB is because of color theory/tech. Not saying he is incorrect so i would love to here from a guru or someone what the hell HSB is and how it works.
This will get you started, I just found it yesterday. He has other videos to explain the background knowledge necessary to understand what they are talking about...
Real-Time Color-Separations with the FREE Full-Spectrum HSB Smart-Filter ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPBHDKm0ZAs#ws[/url])
Steve
I don't know if it's my feeble mind or the creator of that vid but it was way over my head and like pulling teeth watching it! That said thanks for the link it explained some of HSB but still leaves me in the dark as to how you get seps from it.
My feeble mind is having trouble staying awake while I watch, I know what you mean, but I figure 2 or 3 times through it and some will penetrate the outer skull. I just got a copy of X6, will install it this weekend and start up, then in a couple of weeks check out SimpleSeps Raster.
-
If you use corel, this is an awesome addition to your arsenal.
-
This program looks so good I wish I was a corel user, My question to Tom is will it work with AI or in the near future, if it works with Illy I would pick up in a heart beat.
Darryl
-
I know the current version won't work with illy, the macros are a corel thing.
I think the combo of Photoshop and Corel is hard to beat. I have never been an illy fan, but I do love photoshop...I just wish I was better in it
-
Actually it's a vba thing... if illustrator would do vba scripting then it would be EASIER to "convert"... but that isn't gonna happen so Steve would have to basically start from scratch to make it in Illustrator.
-
Ok I must not have paid close attenion it will work with Photoshop? all I saw was Corel or assume it for corel only being Tom is a corel user.
Darryl
-
Ok I must not have paid close attenion it will work with Photoshop? all I saw was Corel or assume it for corel only being Tom is a corel user.
Darryl
No, "it" won't work in Photoshop, but rather Brad (and I, and I'm sure other Corelians) will. LOL!
-
I believe Tom said a Photoshop version is on the way. Based on what I know now, the Photoshop version would be saved as a DCS file after the art is finished, then you could place it in Illustrator and print from there, but like I said, it's a guess.
Steve
-
Thanks for the clear up, I read Brads post wrong, but hey good for you corel users.
Darryl
-
What version of corel does this work in? anyone know? I'm lagging behind, I'm in X4 still. .
-
i think it only works in x5 and x6.
jump up to x6, i like it a lot better than x4. x5 was terrible
-
But avoid x6.1 like the plague.
-
damn, i went to buy it and i saw the headline for x5 and x6 only. . .i just upgraded to x4 about a year ago.
what's wrong with x5 and x6? so far i like x3 the best...11 was cool too...
this looks like an awesome program though, maybe i'll buy it and hold on to it until i upgrade.
-
X5 what sucks well to many things to list.
X3 was awesome.
-
Well, here is the 3rd design we've done from Simple Seps Raster. Not a single adjustment and it's dead on to the proof. Needless to say, I am very impressed. Out of the can colors too...no mixing.
This one was 5 colors on sand
GNS Dallas Green
Lemon Yellow
National Red
Black
White
all 230's
-
Very impressive. I think I will pull the trigger and upgrade from X4 to X6 and try and pick this up. Seems like a good way to start offering some more sophisticated designs. Excellent write up on the product.
-
Well, here is the 3rd design we've done from Simple Seps Raster. Not a single adjustment and it's dead on to the proof. Needless to say, I am very impressed. Out of the can colors too...no mixing.
This one was 5 colors on sand
GNS Dallas Green
Lemon Yellow
National Red
Black
White
all 230's
Thanks for posting this because we are hitting allot of resistance in that many people still believe you cannot do these things in DRAW.. and we do them in DRAW only going to PP for the perfect MonoChrome. Fact is both CorelDRAW and PhotoShop can do these separations. It is a bit easier and cleaner in DRAW.. but PS can do these as well.
We are also not using the Old School methods you will find in the other separation apps we are working with pure color science and that is the difference, When we side stepped what the industry has been taught in ignorance for so long and went to science.. low and behold DRAW rocks!
-
The rabbit hole is getting really deep..
SimpleSeps Raster 1.2 Sneak Peek 5 the Auto Seps Tab (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncGJLpfILNs#ws)
And there is so much more to come..
-
This program looks so good I wish I was a corel user, My question to Tom is will it work with AI or in the near future, if it works with Illy I would pick up in a heart beat.
Darryl
Darryl,
This is coming for PhotoShop.. Impossible in Illustrator but in PS yes. Adobe ROCKS too.. in so many ways. Most of our clip art comes out of Illustrator. But when you put these seps together with DRAW as design assets nothing in the world compares. I say that as pro in Adobe and Corel. Corel has long been overlooked and not correctly understood as to how it fits into the design world.
-
a know as of about 8 years ago Corel sold more copies than illustrator. I doubt that is true now with how popular macs have become.
-
You know its so strange just got off the phone with a client who showed this to his son who goes to Graphic Design school and is in an Advanced PhotoShop course and both the son and the teacher said this is a some sort trick here and that this cannot be done in CorelDRAW.
-
You know its so strange just got off the phone with a client who showed this to his son who goes to Graphic Design school and is in an Advanced PhotoShop course and both the son and the teacher said this is a some sort trick here and that this cannot be done in CorelDRAW.
Well technically it isnt a 100% coreldraw...I mean photopaint is doing a ton of the work or am I wrong?
-
Jason, as he said, he only goes to Photopaint (PP) when he needs something as a monochrome bitmap (like you do, right?)
"Thanks for posting this because we are hitting allot of resistance in that many people still believe you cannot do these things in DRAW.. and we do them in DRAW only going to PP for the perfect MonoChrome. Fact is both CorelDRAW and PhotoShop can do these separations. It is a bit easier and cleaner in DRAW.. but PS can do these as well."
-
tom, send them to me. i can verify the program works like advertised. The only problem we have is not with the program, but with a lack of print heads
-
Yes it all vector but we are converting to bitmaps along the way.. the only thing we cannot get in DRAW is the perfect monochrome conversions. The macro actually contains several thousand automated processes. The great thing for me is that I believe this will really change the game for allot of the small shops. What was set up previously in PhotoShop was actually a very poor method of color management and separation which is why their were so many jobs that came out of these automated systems needing to be tweaked. We do not nail it every time but it is a more accurate process based on color science and not features of a software program. Truth is you can do this in GIMP.
But for me it is not just the color separations but the fact that these can also be used as design assets in DRAW. Now you have entered into a whole new level of design potential.
-
any of you guys that have this -any updates? I just bought X6 and I think this may help out on most of my seps. Dan and Mr. Coudray will get the stuff I am too chicken to do myself. . .
-
i haven't used it in a while, but I can tell you it's amazing. plain and simple. It won't work on every job and I am waiting for the next updates. It's so much easier than PS in my opinion. I am just not proficient in PS.
-
I gambled and bought X6 just to get this program. it is AMAZING. . .simple as that. . .I was a little on the fence about it, I thought it was like Easyart or some other seps in a can, as you guys call it. . .nope. . .not even close. . .for some jobs -you may want a human eye going at it but for 90% of our work, open up the art, hit a few buttons, and BOOM, Bob's you uncle. . .
Tom, any movement on the free trials offer?
-
I told you guys so.
How many prints have you rattled off from it?
I am looking forward to the upgrade, although it looks really confusing.
-
The update should be out tomorrow I am working on the videos now....
Session 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ-xWnBD7P4#ws)
Nothing like slicing blends and solids in one shot and dead on.
-
I gambled and bought X6 just to get this program. it is AMAZING. . .simple as that. . .I was a little on the fence about it, I thought it was like Easyart or some other seps in a can, as you guys call it. . .nope. . .not even close. . .for some jobs -you may want a human eye going at it but for 90% of our work, open up the art, hit a few buttons, and BOOM, Bob's you uncle. . .
Tom, any movement on the free trials offer?
I am thinking about renaming this to BOOM, Bobs your uncle separator! 8)