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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Prosperi-Tees on July 15, 2014, 05:23:04 PM
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So I picked up a couple 150/48 S-Mesh statics to give em a try. Coated 1 on the print side and 2 on the squeegee side with SP-1400. Put on the press and adjusted the choppers until it just cleared the ink which to my surprise was a whole lot less pressure than with my regular statics. Did not see any platen deflection or anything and I was able to speed the squeegee up as fast as it would go which could not happen with my regular statics. Also it cleared the ink with one stroke which I could barely get to happen with regular statics and that would take a whole bunch of pressure and a slow squeegee speed. So here are the results. Printed with SF White. I have a sample of Wilflex Quick coming to try out as I am not 100% satisfied with the SF and the matte down properties as you can see in the pics.
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cool story bro..
take a tension reading now, and one again after 10k impressions and a few dozen reclaim cycles, then get back to me.
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cool story bro..
take a tension reading now, and one again after 10k impressions and a few dozen reclaim cycles, then get back to me.
For us I would be getting back to you maybe next year!
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Perfect!
I'll put a note on my calendar for this time next year.
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nice G. rollers aren't for everyone. me included.
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So I picked up a couple 150/48 S-Mesh statics to give em a try. Coated 1 on the print side and 2 on the squeegee side with SP-1400. Put on the press and adjusted the choppers until it just cleared the ink which to my surprise was a whole lot less pressure than with my regular statics. Did not see any platen deflection or anything and I was able to speed the squeegee up as fast as it would go which could not happen with my regular statics. Also it cleared the ink with one stroke which I could barely get to happen with regular statics and that would take a whole bunch of pressure and a slow squeegee speed. So here are the results. Printed with SF White. I have a sample of Wilflex Quick coming to try out as I am not 100% satisfied with the SF and the matte down properties as you can see in the pics.
Man, your post echoes my experience exactly. As soon as I saw that screen clear on the first pass, using cold white ink right out of the bucket, I knew life was about to get a little bit easier. It ended up getting a lot easier, and more fun.
I also switched from SF White since that time and it has made a huge difference. If you get a chance, I'd recommend checking out a sample of Miami Screenprint Ultimate White. I found it by recommendation from Alan, and it turned out the place is 1/2 hour from my shop. Rutland Tidy white is supposed to be another great option if you're not close to Miami, but I haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
Once you have an ink dialed in, get yourself a Serilor 55/90/55 blade (thanks to Pierre) and watch the magic really happen. That mesh/ink/blade combo laid down one of the nicest white prints I've ever seen. And it came off a 25 year old Javelin.
I only have 10 s-mesh screens in production at the moment, and everyone in the shop reaches for them first if they're in the box. Hoping to have the entire operation running on them sooner than later. At this point it's a bummer to run a job without them.
Congrats on the print, it's all downhill from here.
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Thanks. Im printing alot (to us) of white ink lately and this along with the right ink and squeegee may be the ticket I have been looking for. Might switch over to shurloc ez frames though instead of the static's, not sure on that yet.
And you're right I couldn't believe the image in the screen was clean as a whistle with one light stroke. I can see registration possibly getting better as well. On the regular static frames I would have to use so much pressure that I think it would distort the underbase image somewhat on long print strokes.
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Don't forget galaxy ink.
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That stuff printed awesome but was shiny still. Someone told me that the ink is a mix of 2 International Coatings ink but not sure which 2.
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What's so bad about shiny? Lots of my customers want that...
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Really? hmmm maybe its just me then lol. Imo I think it looks cheap when its shiny, idk maybe im just wierd
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I agree... i print matte finish... make sure it's not over cured... and then they ask why it's not glossy... wtf.
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I've got to play spoiler here, (I've got to get some s mesh to play with then I'll know) but I've had very nice print on new screens as well without it being s mesh, but wait until you get a few reclaims and see if it still works that good. I know some of my old screens are hard to print with without a ton of squeegee pressure is because of my poor reclaiming skills and not takin my time.
darryl
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Thats why I am on the fence on whether to go with ez frames or stick with the statics. I have a feeling the ez frames will be a much better option for longevity and of course tension.
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I've got to play spoiler here, (I've got to get some s mesh to play with then I'll know) but I've had very nice print on new screens as well without it being s mesh, but wait until you get a few reclaims and see if it still works that good. I know some of my old screens are hard to print with without a ton of squeegee pressure is because of my poor reclaiming skills and not takin my time.
darryl
The key to this mesh isn't in its tension, but in the additional open area which allows the ink to pass through easier. Think of it as a tile floor, with the grout being the thread and the tiles being the open area. A standard tile floor is like a s-mesh screen. Now double the size of the grout (doubling the thickness of the thread) and the tiles get closed in on all sides, getting much smaller in the process. Smaller tiles = less open area = more resistance to the ink passing through. More resistance to the ink requires more pressure and in turn, higher tension requirements. Less resistance to the ink, as with s-mesh, requires less tension and less pressure to get the job done.
By using less pressure, we can lay down a more opaque ink deposit using less ink, as more of the ink deposit stays on top of the shirt. This also equates to a faster print speed, adding smoothness to the print.
Would highly recommend grabbing one and giving it a shot. You'll see the difference once you have one on press.
I'm personally planning on moving away from statics in order to have a bit more control over tension levels, but I still feel this plays less a part of the overall equation with s-mesh as it does with standard mesh for the reasons outlined above.
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I've got to play spoiler here, (I've got to get some s mesh to play with then I'll know) but I've had very nice print on new screens as well without it being s mesh, but wait until you get a few reclaims and see if it still works that good. I know some of my old screens are hard to print with without a ton of squeegee pressure is because of my poor reclaiming skills and not takin my time.
darryl
I have definitely had my fair share of statics get a loss in tension that leads to less printability. As of this far I have not seen this in our s-mesh statics. We have only been using them for about 6 weeks now but the screens have been through the whole process at least a dozen times & they still print like new & at the same tension. These do remind me of using roller frames, in that I mean its like using 156HD set to 36n on a roller frame, but set to 20n on a static. ( If that makes any sense. ) That being said I'm sure it would be pretty nice using this mesh on a roller frame set to a higher tension too.
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That stuff printed awesome but was shiny still. Someone told me that the ink is a mix of 2 International Coatings ink but not sure which 2.
I can pretty much assure you that there is no truth to that. Not that it would be a bad thing or anything, but just not what is going on there.
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I thought it might not be true as it come from a sales rep of another ink mfg. He said they can only sell International Coatings ink.
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I thought it might not be true as it come from a sales rep of another ink mfg. He said they can only sell International Coatings ink.
Who can only sell International Coatings? You lost me there man!
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lol I thought we were talking about Green Galaxy inks that are sold by Ryonet, what were you talking about? :-\
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I have two 150S screens that have been in production about 6 months. I'd have to look in the log (and I don't care that much about it to do so), but I'd estimate they've seen anywhere from 10k to 15k imprints in that time. Last tension readings as the first of the month had both at 21N. We received them at 24N, so I'm happy with that.
ETA: I actually prefer well made statics over the EZ frames. But that is simply for the fact that EZ frames are a bitch to fit into my old tri-loc.
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here at my shop we've been changing the mesh out from 156 to 160s then 230 to 225s then I've only been using 310s for high end jobs...all mesh in our place is heading to S mesh...only thing is you need to gentle with these frames. Even on taping reg marks on press I've had a few split during reclaim while taking the tape of the regs(using box tape)...there is a learning curve to these. I can handle these all day long with no problems...but then again I've had to talk to my screen guy several times about how he handle them...As for using them for bases and such...160s are laying down more than a 125...plus detail washing out is a thing of the past with these...
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What kinda halftones do the 150s hold?
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What kinda halftones do the 150s hold?
The math says 35 LPI. We run 180's for most halftone work (45 LPI). Though my guy has run it at 55 LPI with minimal moire... but I'd stick with the math (225).
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What kinda halftones do the 150s hold?
I can hold a 50 on a 150S without any problems.
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What kinda halftones do the 150s hold?
I can hold a 50 on a 150S without any problems.
Same here. So far so good with the ones we have so far. I also have 150S , 180S, and some 350S stretched up on rollers. I do like it more on these but for statics they are still good. Just the added benefit of less squeegee pressure makes a lot of things easier. The 225S also prints well for what it is.
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I've moved to almost always using the S-mesh, and my regular mesh screens are basically just collecting dust. I use 225S for almost everything, unless I'm going for a one hit white (135S or 110 standard mesh with a nice thick coat still works best here imo), and I have started using 180S for a lot of discharge work. On the 180 I use 45 or 55 lpi depending on what I need from it, and both work fine. On 135S and 150S I have used 45 without issue on both.
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I can hold a 50 on a 150S without any problems.
X3
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I notice in reading this thread there is a tension question here as well as a perception that Murakami S mesh just keeps losing tension. For the record a Newman can be retentioned, great if you have the time. But at the price of a bare Newman you can have 3 screens stretched to whatever tension you want for that particular mesh count. 150S Mesh recommended tension levels are: 18-28n Typically stretching to the highest tension is not advisable for textiles. Typical set up and handling is simply too rough in textile shops. So we recommend 22-24 starting tension, which will level off from 17-19 newtons. There is a very small loss after this point, but Smartmesh does avoid elongation better than any mesh. Want to hold on to more of the tension you start with on a static? Stretch it on the bias and gain a couple of newtons for the work hardened screen. Once you see the results you will realize the base plate does not need super high tension to lay down a bright white base plate in one hit. Faster squeegee speeds, less ink usage, brighter base plates with halftones, whats not to like?
John, when can I come and see you in Oceanside and show you a different static screen? Not all mesh is the same. Murakami can retain workable tensions in a static frame and achieve far more print life than throwing econo brand mesh on a static that does continue to elongate.
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...So we recommend 22-24 starting tension, which will level off from 17-19 newtons. There is a very small loss after this point, but Smartmesh does avoid elongation better than any mesh....
And then retention up to what?
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I just ordered a dozen more on Friday, these screens are my new best friend.
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I just ordered a dozen more on Friday, these screens are my new best friend.
did you order yours from Spot Color supply? I'm ordering a dozen or two on monday, I just want to know how well they ship, being fragile and all....
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I just ordered a dozen more on Friday, these screens are my new best friend.
did you order yours from Spot Color supply? I'm ordering a dozen or two on monday, I just want to know how well they ship, being fragile and all....
I'm sorry I saw tour post this morning & then I started having employees show up early so we just started getting to it.
I have not bought any S-Mesh from them yet. I did see they might start carrying it. I have bought screens (not "S") from them before & did not have problems.
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did you order yours from Spot Color supply? I'm ordering a dozen or two on monday, I just want to know how well they ship, being fragile and all....
The screens I got had a thin piece of styrofoam at each corner of the screens, which I'm assuming keeps them a bit safer during shipping. They were not ordered from Spot Color though.
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The screens I got had a thin piece of styrofoam at each corner of the screens, which I'm assuming keeps them a bit safer during shipping. They were not ordered from Spot Color though.
x2
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I just ordered a dozen more on Friday, these screens are my new best friend.
did you order yours from Spot Color supply? I'm ordering a dozen or two on monday, I just want to know how well they ship, being fragile and all....
I get frames from them and on the occasion there is a problem, they fix it right away, don't worry about that.
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I just ordered a dozen more on Friday, these screens are my new best friend.
did you order yours from Spot Color supply? I'm ordering a dozen or two on monday, I just want to know how well they ship, being fragile and all....
We actually "make" all of our frame boxes here... From our experience frames being able to move in the box leads to popped screens... We will have to see about S-Mesh, but the only time that we have had frames pop in transit is when the driver decides to put his foot through the side of the box... :P
We look foreword to doing business with you!!
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I just ordered a dozen more on Friday, these screens are my new best friend.
did you order yours from Spot Color supply? I'm ordering a dozen or two on monday, I just want to know how well they ship, being fragile and all....
We actually "make" all of our frame boxes here... From our experience frames being able to move in the box leads to popped screens... We will have to see about S-Mesh, but the only time that we have had frames pop in transit is when the driver decides to put his foot through the side of the box... :P
We look foreword to doing business with you!!
Do you have pricing on the s-mesh frames yet?
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Not yet... Working on that now.
The will be more expensive... We will make the same amount, but the mesh costs more than the Saati we currently use.
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If you have retensionables you can retension to 22-24 on S mesh, All mesh tensions are mesh specific.
150S 18-28 newtons. - 28 is the staging point, no more tension can be had, the threads can't take anymore and this is not a good tension for textile shops. I always choose something in the middle, and since any ink passes with less squeegee pressure super high tensions are not needed on base plates, wb, and discharge.
180S 22-35 newtons, so I would go to 27-29. Same thread diameter as 150S but more threads = slightly higher tension capability.
Al
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If you have retensionables you can retension to 22-24 on S mesh, All mesh tensions are mesh specific.
150S 18-28 newtons. - 28 is the staging point, no more tension can be had, the threads can't take anymore and this is not a good tension for textile shops. I always choose something in the middle, and since any ink passes with less squeegee pressure super high tensions are not needed on base plates, wb, and discharge.
180S 22-35 newtons, so I would go to 27-29. Same thread diameter as 150S but more threads = slightly higher tension capability.
Al
Thanks Alan!
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We had our first S-Mesh casualty this morning during a color change. I've been running them full speed in all applications besides degreasing to see how they'd hold up, so it was bound to happen sooner or later. Plastic ink scoop split a 150S on the side of the screen. Scoop didn't go through the tape, just popped the mesh underneath.
Took a lot longer than expected though, as we've been running them non-stop since they arrived. We'll now begin showing them a bit more respect. They sure as hell deserve it.
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Who carries static S-Mesh frames?
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Murakami sells Static S Mesh Frames in 20x24, 23x31, 25x36 with the following mesh counts being the most popular:
80S - Gels, High Density (stretch on bias recommended for large print areas)
90S - Gels, Puffs, High Density,
135/S - High Solids Acrylics, Discharge, water base, large spot color.
150/S - White Plastisol Base Plates, Discharge, water base.
180/S - White Plastisol Base Plates, Detailed Discharge, water base
225/S - White Plastisol Base Plates, Detailed Spot Plastisol, detailed water base. (Discharge will have some color drop, I prefer saturating the fabric for vivid color, but it will work)
There are also S meshes available in higher mesh counts
310/S - Only for the brave like Kevin at Forward Printing in Oakland, CA, He has done 4/C discharge process printing with this with excellent results. Incredible halftone work.
350S - Sim Process/Index plastisol color overprints, controls ink laydown to keep it sharp.
1.800.562.3534 ext 118
Alan
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Who carries static S-Mesh frames?
Murakami doesn't sell direct, you can get them from river city graphic supply
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Thanks for the clarification, we do sell through our dealers. In most cases though we get the details and pass them along to the nearest dealer of ours. Kevin at River City has done a great job for us with the Static screens that we make here.
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Just wanted to give a thumbs up to River City!
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Thanks! :D
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Thanks for the clarification, we do sell through our dealers. In most cases though we get the details and pass them along to the nearest dealer of ours. Kevin at River City has done a great job for us with the Static screens that we make here.
any dealers in NY yet?
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The dealers we have in the area predominantly sell our emulsions and bulk mesh, however we do drop ship from here for them. You can give me a call so I can set up the sale with a local dealer in your area.
323.697.4334
Al
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Nobody on the left coast offers their screens that I can find, or at least I can't find them online even through their dealer network.
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Just buy from Kevin at River City and be done with it.
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Just buy from Kevin at River City and be done with it.
That's what I am gonna/have do/done lol.
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Just buy from Kevin at River City and be done with it.
Thanks Alan.
We do have a bunch on stock now ready to ship same day. These were all stretched by Murakami so the tension levels are perfect.
Free shipping on supply orders over $100.00
order online at www.rivercitygraphicsupply.com (http://www.rivercitygraphicsupply.com), or give u a call.
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I just bought 8 more yesterday from Kevin. Perfect experience as always.
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Do the 135's (statics) put down more ink, obviously they do but what is the difference between a 150 and a 135. Trying to achieve an acceptable one hit white on black. It is semi close with a 150 coated 2/1. I am thinking a 135 coated 2/2 may do it. Anyone done it and how did you do it?
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Most of our "one hits" come from lower mesh counts like 120/54 and 90/71's and we haven't had a ton of luck with getting one hits through a 135 but honestly it hasn't been tried near as much as with a 120 or 90. I know the don't stock those mesh counts but they should start. I get those counts and put on the roller frames so I am not as limited in what we can use because of that. I love the 120/54 and I can't say enough about what they can do.
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would your customers really be happy with a 1-hit white? I've never seen a 'true 1-hit' that looks anywhere near as good as a pfp.
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I've personally never felt a one hit white was worth the effort.
Either P/F/P on small quantities or just toss in a second screen on larger amounts.
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Northwest Graphic Supply up here in Minneapolis sells them also.
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would your customers really be happy with a 1-hit white? I've never seen a 'true 1-hit' that looks anywhere near as good as a pfp.
Go visit Alan.
Now is it worth the effort? That's debatable, but his prints aren't.
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I think I will toss a 2nd screen on there since its 1000 pcs white and red on black both sides, definitely want to do that in one revolution
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I think I will toss a 2nd screen on there since its 1000 pcs white and red on black both sides, definitely want to do that in one revolution
Glad you got that job!
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Us too, we sent them a postcard last Friday and they called us on Tuesday, met with them today and should an order early next week.
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Us too, we sent them a postcard last Friday and they called us on Tuesday, met with them today and should an order early next week.
So you got that job off of a post card?! That's awesome!
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Yup the guy said that day he got the ok from corporate to find a local screen printer and our card showed up!
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would your customers really be happy with a 1-hit white? I've never seen a 'true 1-hit' that looks anywhere near as good as a pfp.
For us water base printers discharge works just fine ;)
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Most of our "one hits" come from lower mesh counts like 120/54 and 90/71's and we haven't had a ton of luck with getting one hits through a 135 but honestly it hasn't been tried near as much as with a 120 or 90. I know the don't stock those mesh counts but they should start. I get those counts and put on the roller frames so I am not as limited in what we can use because of that. I love the 120/54 and I can't say enough about what they can do.
Hey Alan,
I'm new here and well, forgive me, I still have much to learn. When you're talking about the 120/54 or 90/71 how do you find the 2nd number? Generally all you see listed on sites is just 110 or 128, etc. What type of mesh are you talking about and is there a chart or anything?
Thanks,
Brandon
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Bulldog,
If you end up getting the 120's ignore Alan and get the 120/48's (60% open area) as opposed to the 120/54's (50 something % open area). Alan doesn't know what he's missing. ;D
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The second number is thread diameter. A 120/48 has 120 threads per inch and each thread has a diameter of 48. A 120/54 has an equal number of threads per inch, but each thread is thicker.
Thicker thread means slightly less open area between each thread. The trade-off is thicker threads are more durable than thin thread.
ETA: The general thinking is that thin mesh performs considerably better than the thicker thread mesh.
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What prozyan said...
If your supplier doesn't know the 2nd # get your mesh from someone else. Take it from someone who used generic mesh up until 2-3 years ago - better mesh is a game changer.
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would your customers really be happy with a 1-hit white? I've never seen a 'true 1-hit' that looks anywhere near as good as a pfp.
Printing without flashing on tons of jobs every year saves us thousands of dollars, easy 5 figures, but it also doesn't take us that long to set the job up. If it takes you an hour to get a one hit job set up correctly then yeah, probably not worth it. Generally speaking, a PFP should always look better from a few feet away versus a one hit but the goal is to reach 100% opacity with the thinnest layer of ink possible and anything over 100% is wasting ink. Which I would bet that most shops that PFP are able to get the first stroke/print to 70% opacity, then they flash, print that again, and they are now at essentially 140% opacity (really 40% more ink usage versus what it takes to reach 100%) so there is a huge waste of ink going on in most shops, and the suppliers REALLY love the shops that PFP everything no matter what. The majority of the designs we do you have to PFP, but any time we can get away with just doing one stroke and throw it on the belt, the more money we make.
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The question was raised here about the second number in a mesh count, like 150/48 mesh, which is a 150S mesh here in the US. The rest of the world prefers using the thread diameter for the second number, here in the US we use letters to denote the thickness of thread. From thinnest to thickest thread: SS, S, M, T, HD. Here is our mesh guide link:
http://www.murakamiscreen.com/documents/MeshGuidefromCatalogweb.pdf (http://www.murakamiscreen.com/documents/MeshGuidefromCatalogweb.pdf)
You can see the relationship between thread diameter and the letter description. It should be noted that what can be an S thread in one mesh like 80/71 or 80/S becomes a T thread in a higher mesh count like 125/71 or 125/T, one reason that using the thread diameter is more accurate. For ease of printing and especially opacity the percentage of open area is also helpful. 150/48 (150/S) has a 51% open area, 110/80 (110/T) has a 43% open area. So for base plates, discharge and water base, the open area tells me how easy the ink will print through similar meshes for the same use. Ink volume also tells you how much ink per square meter will be used in centimeters. If you print a ton of white base ink this alone will convince you to change your base plate mesh. I have a 40 auto shop customer who became more competitive and profitable by using 1/3 less white base ink with S meshes.
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Bulldog,
If you end up getting the 120's ignore Alan and get the 120/48's (60% open area) as opposed to the 120/54's (50 something % open area). Alan doesn't know what he's missing. ;D
Ah ok, Alan (Buffington), that makes a lot of sense now. So the 120/48 that ScreenPrinter123 mentioned is a 120S and the 120/54 that Alan mentioned are actually a 120M.
Correct? And so the 120S would lay down slightly more ink than the 120M?
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And so the 120S would lay down slightly more ink than the 120M?
Just my opinion, it would be considerably more ink.
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would your customers really be happy with a 1-hit white? I've never seen a 'true 1-hit' that looks anywhere near as good as a pfp.
For us water base printers discharge works just fine ;)
Indeed. Most of our one hit DC whites are brighter than plastisol with no flash to turn on, no screens to register, and the ink is around half the price. ;)
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Bulldog,
If you end up getting the 120's ignore Alan and get the 120/48's (60% open area) as opposed to the 120/54's (50 something % open area). Alan doesn't know what he's missing. ;D
Ah ok, Alan (Buffington), that makes a lot of sense now. So the 120/48 that ScreenPrinter123 mentioned is a 120S and the 120/54 that Alan mentioned are actually a 120M.
Correct? And so the 120S would lay down slightly more ink than the 120M?
They will deposit almost the exact same amount of ink. 47 cm3/m2 for the 120S and 48 for the 120M.
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Bulldog,
If you end up getting the 120's ignore Alan and get the 120/48's (60% open area) as opposed to the 120/54's (50 something % open area). Alan doesn't know what he's missing. ;D
Ah ok, Alan (Buffington), that makes a lot of sense now. So the 120/48 that ScreenPrinter123 mentioned is a 120S and the 120/54 that Alan mentioned are actually a 120M.
Correct? And so the 120S would lay down slightly more ink than the 120M?
They will deposit almost the exact same amount of ink. 47 cm3/m2 for the 120S and 48 for the 120M.
Do those numbers actually mean the opposite of what I was thinking? That the 120M would actually be the one to deposit slightly more? I see the ink volume column now...the higher the number the more ink deposited seems to be the trend?
Second question, if they're that close, does the advantage then become that the 120M can be tensioned slightly higher?
Is there something else I'm missing here?
Brandon
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Bulldog,
If you end up getting the 120's ignore Alan and get the 120/48's (60% open area) as opposed to the 120/54's (50 something % open area). Alan doesn't know what he's missing. ;D
Ah ok, Alan (Buffington), that makes a lot of sense now. So the 120/48 that ScreenPrinter123 mentioned is a 120S and the 120/54 that Alan mentioned are actually a 120M.
Correct? And so the 120S would lay down slightly more ink than the 120M?
They will deposit almost the exact same amount of ink. 47 cm3/m2 for the 120S and 48 for the 120M.
Do those numbers actually mean the opposite of what I was thinking? That the 120M would actually be the one to deposit slightly more? I see the ink volume column now...the higher the number the more ink deposited seems to be the trend?
Second question, if they're that close, does the advantage then become that the 120M can be tensioned slightly higher?
Is there something else I'm missing here?
Brandon
You actually kinda answered your own question.. A mesh chart gives specs for "un-tensioned" mesh.. If you go over the S and M stats for the 120 you will see they're pretty close.. The 120S even looks like the obvious choice for more "ink volume"-(We are not talking ink transfer performance).. But the thing is the open area enlarges (so some stats changes) as the mesh goes up in tension.. It just so happens that the 120M could be stretched to higher tensions compared to the 120S so the 120M will be capable of putting more ink down but does not mean it will be easier to print with.
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Technically speaking we would be able to print with less pressure and faster with the 120S versus M but we are maxed out on both with the M already so we might as well use the more durable mesh count, but they are very similar in that regard as well. Maybe Brian would be generous enough to let me try out a 120/48 so I can see exactly what I'm missing.
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Technically speaking we would be able to print with less pressure and faster with the 120S versus M but we are maxed out on both with the M already so we might as well use the more durable mesh count, but they are very similar in that regard as well. Maybe Brian would be generous enough to let me try out a 120/48 so I can see exactly what I'm missing.
I wanted to do an edit and throw in the fact that all this only matters for people that operate at optimal and understand everything else involved.. (You would have no trouble making a 120M deliver)
And you just proved that I should've done the edit.
Sent using Tapatalk
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Technically speaking we would be able to print with less pressure and faster with the 120S versus M but we are maxed out on both with the M already so we might as well use the more durable mesh count, but they are very similar in that regard as well. Maybe Brian would be generous enough to let me try out a 120/48 so I can see exactly what I'm missing.
Be careful what you ask for.
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135/48 is fragile enough, I can't imagine trying to make a 120/48 last more than 2 reclaim/print cycles.
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S mesh does require different handling techniques to get long life. Reclaim individually, treat them like 300's. Soft sponges instead of brushes, soft scoop cards, no tools on screen during set up, one at a time in the dip tank. There is another Murakami S mesh that has better rip resistance than Polyester S mesh. Murakami LX mesh is unique in that the threads are welded almost completely so that the mesh knuckle is minimized. This creates lower RZ values and reduces squeegee chatter and a can print with a little less pressure. The thread is far different, soft outer core, polyamide inner core for strength. If you pop Polyester S mesh easily, LX is a solution, but since it is softer you can wear holes where the squeegee starts printing at the corners. Softening squeegee ends till they are glass smooth, putting tape down in the landing area for the squeegee, using minimal off contact does help preserve the mesh. The softer outer core does 'give' a little for plastisol base plates to print slightly better and less squeegee pressure needs (minimal difference betweend LX S Mesh and Poly S Mesh squeegee pressure, but opacity is sllightly improved).
In Japan this mesh is widely used in water base printing since it requires such little squeegee pressure to print and preserves fine index type water base printing of very fine details. For those that have Murakami Polyester S mesh and have mastered their favorite mesh count the difference would be minimal. For those that experience mesh popping more than they would like, LX does offer some rip resistance, but does also have a faster wear in the corners where the squeegee hits the screen which can be prevented.
I would agree with the 135S being slightly more fragile than 150S, but we do have Ningbo in China using it almost exclusively for High Solids Acrylics where it really performs well to transfer ink with a fast double stroke. By the way, if you print HSA inks contact me. I have a solution that you need to hear about.
Alan
abuffington@murakamiscreen.com
Al